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| Thread: HoMM4 TOH- Divisions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 03, 2001 08:28 AM |
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HoMM4 TOH- Divisions
This will remain on the TOH board for discussion through September. What is discussed here may reflect on the rules applied to divisions of Homm4 TOH.
Focus of this topic is on Divisions, and the changes/modifications that players recommend to the system. I will reply and discuss any suggestions here from the divisions system, to the heroes4 player profiles, to the division artifact system, to what should carry over from homm3 divisions to homm4.
Many emails have been sent to me to discuss this, and it would be better to discuss them here.
Relevant links:
http://www.toheroes.com/heroes3/division/divrules.htm
http://www.toheroes.com/heroes4/divisions/profiles/profiles.html
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Cheesus
Known Hero
The Untouchable
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posted July 03, 2001 09:37 AM |
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Division changes
I was wondering how much of a divisions prestige is coming to season IV.
Further more i noticed only Captains/generals of season III divisions can re-open divisions. If this is the case divisions that are closed now will not be re-opened next season. I was first lt of fifth elemental, highest ranked member remaining from the people that were in there since our captain D3adm3at was placed in the HOS.
So if somebody wants to re-open it, how will it be done?
Will the division be deleted?
What i would like to see in season IV is for Division campaigns to be a little stricter (not sure if that´s spelled right). If you don´t show up for division you will lose and a loss will be added to your record for whoever was your opponent. This might sound a bit harsh, but in the end it will be worth it. If you don´t have a replacement player or you cannot find the time to play, don´t join a division. This is also my suggestion to let players find players of equal rank or below their rank to replace them in their division game. At the same rank with a max of 50 points more then themselves.
Things might not be very clear, but i´m not very good in explaning my ideas in english, i would gladly explain in dutch for you 
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important
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eliogabalus
Hired Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 12:46 PM |
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One change I would like to see in divisions:
One division should be restricted to 1 colonel and perhaps only 2 captains. Or something similar. Would make it fairer and more balanced.
Also perhaps the colonel (/leader) could only play the other colonel and the winner gets a benefit, ie all his members get extra resources in next round or whatever. This would prevent the nearly-undefeated-super-player to win every campaign singel-handedly. How are you doing Flamingo? 
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deth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 01:14 PM |
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Eliogabalus
So would you get booted from your division if you move up in rank as the season progresses?
For a starting division I can see the idea but as the season progresses it would be a shame to have to dump people because they start moving up in rank. The spirit of fairness is always nice but seems troublesome or not fair in this case. Maybe I just don't get how it would work out.
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eliogabalus
Hired Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 02:25 PM |
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Yeah, they would have to start their own division when they are colonel, not too unreasonable is it?
I see it can be hard late in season when a lot of players are colonels though. Still I would like some restrictions.
Also there are always new players coming so it would be easier for them to get into divisions.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted July 03, 2001 07:01 PM |
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I agree 100% with Elio !!!!
If we are gonna keep the divisions more realistic and RPGish then what Elio says makes sense.
How many armies do you know where a colonal is under the command of a captain?
There is already a rule in diivson now that says No colonals can be recruited into a division. Which is a good rule. But it needs to go farther. If you acheive the rank of captain while in the division, then you need to challenge for leadership or move on and start ytour own division. But definatly no more than 2 Captains per division.
Even right now I know there is a Player trying to put together a super division for the current season. Trying to get all colonals and captains. They obviously dont realize that you cannot recruit colonals. But the rules dont say anything about recruiting all captains. 
As Elio said would balance divisons out more and would make for more interesting hard fought wars.
I also agree with Cheesus, there needs to be some strictness in divisions participation. Since I have taken over divisons I see alot of players not playing there matches. I would say if you arent 90% active then dont join divisions and IF you have to forfiet in a war then you should get a penalty. And that divison should take a prestige point penalty. that would make the capts choose more wisely and also keep on there players to get there games played.
Jinxer
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Lord_of_Kaos
![Lord_of_Kaos]()
Disgraceful
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posted July 03, 2001 11:01 PM |
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I would like to see Divisions increased in size, and set up in more of a "free challenge" format. The greatest frustration about Division play is that games must be "scheduled". Here is my vision of how it might work:
A Division consists of "up to" 20 members, with no more than 4 at any given rank for a period of one month. For example...if a division started with 4 Sgts and 4 Cadets....then 1 Cadet was promoted to Sgt (thus making 5 Sgts altogether)....then the division is allowed one month to see if one of those Sgts can move on to Lt....if not, then the least active Sgt would be placed on "inactive reserve" until a spot opened up.....or maybe asked to leave the division.
In a campaign against another division, matches will not be scheduled. Instead, division members are free to seek out and play any of the opposition WHO ARE THE SAME RANK! (ie....Colonels must play Colonels....Cadets must play Cadets....etc, etc).
Round 1 of the campaign would not be complete until a minimum number of games had been played (6 is probably good). Of course any games that are played by the deadline would qualify the winner to move on to Round 2.
In Round 2 games will also NOT be scheduled, but a player may not challenge someone who is more than 1 rank different (eg....a Colonel may not challenge a Lt or below).
Eventually this will get to a point where only 1 or 2 matches remain......and these of course will have to be scheduled.....but players making it this far are likely "very active" and this should be no trouble.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 04:48 AM |
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Divisions - Only so many per rank
It could be designed, that for each recruitment spot, there are parameters to who can be recruited. So that a division would have the Lord/Legionnaire, but below him the '1st lieutenant' spot would have a maximum rank for being recruited into the spot, and the lower recruitment slots would also have maximum rank levels. So essentially you would be limited in how many high rankers you could place, and bring in more cadets and sergents and such. As for homm4 :
Lord/Overlord Spot
Legionnaire(captain) Spot
1st recruit - Max 1600 pts
2nd recruit - Max 1500 pts
3rd recruit - Max 1400 pts
4th-8th recruit - Max 1300 pts
This example of restrictions will limit who can move into divisions.
What do you think?
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 04:52 AM |
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Increase in Divisions Size
Lord of Kaos:
To increase the divisions size increases the logistics of running a division, keeping it at 8 recruits with 2 commanders is relatively simple, and keeps things from overflowing.
A free challenge setup is actually a great idea, where if players from different divisions meet, beyond the established campaigns, they can play free challenge and gain points for their divisions. This would fall in the realm of the clans however, should divisions grow similar to it? It would also become a whole lot more to control, for the captain, would they want their players winning (and losing) points at will for their division?
Time scheduling will always be difficult in any form or tournament, simply because of the international aspect of homm. Captains can simply facilitate player matchups more efficiently and direct their setups with a little more focus at that point?
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Darkmyth_Miura
Adventuring Hero
£ï£DmAn Go to Hell
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posted July 04, 2001 06:43 AM |
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The clan seems to me is all on single player scenarios. Does it have anything to do with campaigns? And what do you do in this clan anyways? How will you determine the rank? Because I'm mostly a campaign player (I think single scenarios are boring). How will I be ranked????
All the questions I have
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æ磣€ðÆ /3iTc(-)http://www.bbhacks.com
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Darkmyth_Miura
Adventuring Hero
£ï£DmAn Go to Hell
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posted July 04, 2001 06:56 AM |
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I have worked for 8 different clans (*Note: they are all for different games). I am in 4 of them right now. I never really thought of how to begin a clan in Heroes. Heroes just doesn't seem like much of a multiplayer game to me. I dunno. I mean, yeah, they do have a multiplayer section, but it's like a regular game. I also help out many clans before. Ranking is my specialty.
I have thought about various title ranks that you may be interested in Vesuvius:
Leader: Dragon Master
powers: has the final say on everything
Co-leader: Serpent Rider
powers: assists the leader and takes over when he is gone.
Then comes the Council of Revelations. It's like a committee. Almost every clan has them. The council consists of 5 members. The leader of the council will be called the grand vizier. The council's main job is to make the decisions, making life A LOT easier for the leader. However, they must consult the leader with every descision they make.
Next comes the Mage of Anarchy. These guys are tough players who know what to do. There are three members. they have the main job of recruiting, but must consult the council or the leader.
Heretics are next. These people are overall good. Not as great as the Mages, but still at a high rank. They are like the police. They keep control of everything, making sure nothing goes wrong.
... ok, maybe I'm getting a bit jump-started. I dunno whether this type of ranking will work for this clan. I am assuming it's like any other clans. But tell me if this kind of ranking will work and I'll continue. Or else, I'm just wasting my time.
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æ磣€ðÆ /3iTc(-)http://www.bbhacks.com
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 09:26 AM |
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Darkmyth
You should visit the clans, darkmyth. It is simply a group of 4 players, working as a 'team'. Their clan is based on their playing style, which infers certain bonuses that their clan type automatically gets. Nothing too complicated with ranks and positions. Divisions, on the other hand is a larger group of players with ranks based on the TOH ranking system.
In homm4 it will be more like Lord/Overlord, Legionnaire, Squire, Baron, Footman, Plebe and so on.
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 04, 2001 05:10 PM |
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I would have to disagree wif the limitation of cols and capts in a div. The idea may sound fair, but I'm afraid it won't work.
It's already hard enuf to get a div-campaign 'running' as it is. It looks like the people who can fight r the people who fight a lot anyway and those people become cap or col soon.
I'm afraid a lot of (extra) divs will be made; lots of them not complete and a lot of campaigns disbanded because of in-activity.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2001 06:23 PM |
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Well to recruit players that are allready cap or colonels shouldnt be allowed above a certain limit.
But for instance Ive talked with Titan_888 since we both joined TOH approximately at the same time about making and all danish division. Finally we get it done this season, and now I became a colonel. Should I be booted from that division now?? As Troelsen and Titan allready is colonels?
That would just mean that I wouldnt play in any other division, and i would stop playing div games alltogether
So with Kuma`s words it would mean alot more inactivity if people should be thrown out of divisions merely for moving up in the ladder system.
In my regards divisions is working good now, except the artie rule isnt good enugh, in my opinion arties should be given out in the start of a campaign to a single player, when that player is out, the artie is out. But again that will all change with the new legionnaire system, which I havent figured out how worked yet.
But it will probably be alot easier to give constructive advice and critisism once HoMM4 is out and the divisions have been up and running for a period of time
Thats all folks
Defreni
(Whos in the process of moving, hopefully being able to play again in a weeks time or so, and more importantly accesing ´my mail and the zone ;P )
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted July 04, 2001 07:40 PM |
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division artifacts
That's another issue... The problem with them is seen in the last Vulcan Forge campaign, where bpanik is holding ground mostly by luck...
I sugest that artifacts either be used once per war, or if the person holding an artifact loses the division game then the artifact becomes unusable for the rest of the war, or only one artifact allowed per player.
It will give weaker/newer divisions a chance against stronger ones.
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 09:04 PM |
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artifacts
Quote:
I sugest that artifacts either be used once per war, or if the person holding an artifact loses the division game then the artifact becomes unusable for the rest of the war, or only one artifact allowed per player.
It will give weaker/newer divisions a chance against stronger ones.
I was thinking that yes, there would be limits to usage of the artifacts, that is, once per war, not per round... or like you have said above. Some have said by losing a battle that the artifact should be given to the victor, but what people dont see in that is how it could be a logistical nightmare, with division prestige points and artifacts bouncing up and down repeatedly... and would devalue the strength of gaining an artifact.
Perhaps methodology should change on how an artifact is won in the first place is in order. Keep it at the Most Valuable Player of a division? Give it automatically to the winning division no matter what? Give it to the player with the most wins?
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Lord_of_Kaos
![Lord_of_Kaos]()
Disgraceful
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posted July 04, 2001 09:04 PM |
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It appears that the central thought here is to find a way to level the playing field between divisions. I can sympathize with this idea. Just look at the way AFD is destroying the HB right now! It's demoralizing for many of the newer players.
Perhaps some sort of Division rating system might be put in place..... and the rule would be that a division with a High rating is not allowed to challenge a division with a low rating.
Just a thought.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 09:09 PM |
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Quote:
Well to recruit players that are allready cap or colonels shouldnt be allowed above a certain limit.
So with Kuma`s words it would mean alot more inactivity if people should be thrown out of divisions merely for moving up in the ladder system.
There definitely needs to be some sort of limiting on the number of high rankers.... but maybe not as firm as the example I set above as before. But to go and recruit a whole bunch of colonels etc... (in this case legionnaires and lords).
Perhaps a small minimum quota of cadet/sergent level players needed in all divisions should be placed. Sufficient to keep a diverse group playing, but not limit those who are promoted and such.
Anyways, in this case we are looking at season I homm4 TOH, which will be more full of lower ranked players, I dont see a whole bunch of lords and legionnaires too early in the game, especially with the higher point rank requirement... if youve noticed on the homm4 rankings page.
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deth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted July 04, 2001 09:45 PM |
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divisions rankers
I think this setup already exists that people cannot build a division out of several top ranking people. Only thing is that people do move up in rank and then in the long run divisions should actually have many people with higher ranks in them as the season progresses. Again I say how unfortunate that people would have to be removed from a division if there were many who started attainning higher ranks. Hmm...balance is important but how do we not penalize those who do well. Maybe some bonuses can be given newer players somehow? That would encourage their recruitment as well I might think. Ideas on bonuses?
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bpanik2
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posted July 04, 2001 10:21 PM |
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Quote:
If we are gonna keep the divisions more realistic and RPGish then what Elio says makes sense.
now i think that was a very silly statement,all this would do is make it more of headache for the leaders and those that like not having there own division but rather play under another.simply not join.but we sure gotta do something about being unbalaneced alright from the arts not the ranks.bp
How many armies do you know where a colonal is under the command of a captain?
There is already a rule in diivson now that says No colonals can be recruited into a division. Which is a good rule. But it needs to go farther. If you acheive the rank of captain while in the division, then you need to challenge for leadership or move on and start ytour own division. But definatly no more than 2 Captains per division.
Even right now I know there is a Player trying to put together a super division for the current season. Trying to get all colonals and captains. They obviously dont realize that you cannot recruit colonals. But the rules dont say anything about recruiting all captains.
As Elio said would balance divisons out more and would make for more interesting hard fought wars.
I also agree with Cheesus, there needs to be some strictness in divisions participation. Since I have taken over divisons I see alot of players not playing there matches. I would say if you arent 90% active then dont join divisions and IF you have to forfiet in a war then you should get a penalty. And that divison should take a prestige point penalty. that would make the capts choose more wisely and also keep on there players to get there games played.
Jinxer
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