|
| Thread: Ghost Dragons vs. Bone??? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
streetspirit
Tavern Dweller
|
posted September 12, 2003 10:00 AM |
|
|
one thing's I'm sure of... a ghost dragon will beat a bone dragon one on one...
____________
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted September 12, 2003 05:13 PM |
|
|
Let's face it - Ghost Dragons are one of those units that are useless in straight forward killemall, but you can make the opponent furious if you use them right. That kind of unit isn't a crap unit. It's just different.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
|
|
posted September 23, 2006 09:39 PM |
|
|
coller the bone ones
____________
hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
|
|
BlackkDeathhh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 01:49 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Heh it's a fact.
Ghost dragons can beat the Ancient Behemoths 1-1 
No way.
|
|
Wightmaster
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted January 01, 2007 12:59 AM |
|
|
|
I agree. Ancient Behemots reduces the other creatures defence by 80%, thats pretty much. The only way, that I can see, that a Ghost dragon can beat an AB is by Curse the AB.
|
|
Jkwo
Hired Hero
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 03:10 AM |
|
Edited by Jkwo at 09:40, 06 Jan 2007.
|
Quote:
Quote:
rych is correct...when ghost drags used correctly they are extremely effective. as compared to most 7ths however they are very weak.
but..why should you care? the true strength of necro is legions of lvl1's,as opposed to other classes!
the three strengths of necro is:
-legions of lvl 1 (i.e. necromancy)
-Vampire lord (best lvl 4 units)
-Dread knights (best lvl 6 units)
And that's IT!
Since everybody seems to be so caught up in the 1v1 aspect, I will say that a stack of Naga Queens will just about always stomp an equal sized stack of Dread Knights (and Efreet Sultans) on a hero of equal stats. I agree that Dread Knights are fierce (and a pain in the butt to fight), but I think their ferocity is magnified when viewed through the lens of the necropolis army as a whole, because they're one of the few nec troops not on the weak side of their level class compared to troops from other towns.
But on topic, I think if you try to use ghost dragons as a "1 hit KO" stack like more typical level 7s (AA/AB/BD/GD/ETC), they're just going to get chopped down with their relatively low HP and stats. But, if you learn to take advantage of their strengths and special abilities instead of complaining about their fragility, they can more than pull their weight in a full-army battle.. same kind of thing as with sprites or pit lords.
all IMHO
____________
|
|
Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
|
|
posted January 06, 2007 07:15 PM |
|
|
Quote:
all IMHO
Thats for sure.
|
|
Jkwo
Hired Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2007 03:26 AM |
|
|
Well, the way I see it.. with a 1st level creature that can accumulate zounds or legions in a couple weeks, a 4th level that is essentially self-sustaining in melee combat once they reach moderate numbers, a 5th level which, factoring in weekly generation and unit power, is probably the second strongest shooter in the game, and a 6th level that can genuinely compete with many 7th level stacks using only slightly larger numbers, and decimate almost everything 6 and below without taking a scratch thanks to outrageous health/att/def + good specials, a lightning fast stack with hp halving capabilities is icing on the cake.
Of course they're not as valuable as most other 7s individually, and of course ghosts are overpriced, but I think that any good player, in many situations, could use their specific abilities to turn around an otherwise difficult battle. Not to mention if Necro generated something as outright deadly as Ancients or Archangels, it would likely be even cheaper than Conflux.
____________
|
|
Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2007 03:49 PM |
|
|
here we go again ...
Quote:
Since everybody seems to be so caught up in the 1v1 aspect, I will say that a stack of Naga Queens will just about always stomp an equal sized stack of Dread Knights
Read from the last post on page 3 of this thread.
FYI, Jkwo: Many veterans are not that tolerant towards newcomers to HC when they start writing about their knowledge of H3; there are countless examples of this; they receive rather unwelcoming comments.
|
|
Jkwo
Hired Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 01:58 AM |
|
Edited by Jkwo at 02:03, 08 Jan 2007.
|
I apologize if I come across as presumptuous, but all I've intended to do in this thread is to present an opinion and give reasoning for it.
I'm sure many here know much more than I do about the game; I never meant to imply otherwise or show any disrespect in my responses in this thread.
Of course long time quality posters should receive respect, but to respond to any new voice (aside from rude posters/spammers/etc) with condescension doesn't benefit anybody.
If I say anything that's factually incorrect, feel free to point it out. If I state an opinion you disagree with, I would love to hear why. Or if my opinion is just so misguided that the whole forum holds a consensus in disagreement with it, it would surely make me a better player for you to point this out. However, in the thread you linked me to, more people seemed to back the Nagas than Knights, so it would seem that my tests were not entirely inaccurate. Otherwise, I'm just giving an opinion in a thread that's asking for them.
And I just realized that I basically just restated Lord Woock's opinion about the Ghost Dragons in my previous posts. Oh well.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 01:12 PM |
|
|
Feel free posting your opinion here. Don't take "bad" comments too serious. As long as u state your opinion and don't think the veterans' opinions are wrong, u are not doing anything wrong.
Keep going.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 08:10 PM |
|
|
@ Jkwo
I seem to have forgotten my manners. Welcome to H3!
I experienced it myself when I joined. It happens often which is quite sad. Just don't be surprised if you see comments like Xarfax's.
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted October 27, 2009 08:53 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Heh it's a fact.
Ghost dragons can beat the Ancient Behemoths 1-1
No way.
Quote:
I agree. Ancient Behemots reduces the other creatures defence by 80%, thats pretty much. The only way, that I can see, that a Ghost dragon can beat an AB is by Curse the AB.
Actually it's true, at least for a 100 vs. 100 splitted and waited attack with no morale.
First round wait, AB defend (can't reach as morale is not allowed (too unlikely, but if you want it gives AB a 15% victory rate I believe).
First round ending, 1 GD takes retal, gets smashed
1 GD attacks again
98 GD's attack
Second round
1 GD attacks and takes retal
98 GD's attack without retal again.
At these numbers and at splitted stacks, it goes that almost always does the fastest unit wins in equal level battles, except for the phoenix (the same goes for lower levels, again with exceptions, such as the dragon fly does not beat the cerberus, etc.)
Quote:
Since everybody seems to be so caught up in the 1v1 aspect, I will say that a stack of Naga Queens will just about always stomp an equal sized stack of Dread Knights (and Efreet Sultans) on a hero of equal stats.
In battles where you don't allow wait, and in general use low numbers of units, then you're right, at least in my testings, but the more units, the more important does speed become, and especially using wait, DK's pretty much always defeats NQ's.
Edit: Also, the GD is the only other level 7 the Phoenix seem to win against in most battles in equal numbers.
|
|
Eden
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 27, 2009 11:55 PM |
|
|
I'm no Necromancer, so don't listen to me. But I think that Ghost Dragons are better, their attack, damage, and speed are hugh differences comparded to the Bone Dragons, personally I like the Spectral Dragons because I think they look cool (If you guys aren't talking about h5 necro drags and are talking about h3, Ghost Drags are better...just covering my bases).
____________
If I must die, I will encounter darkness as a bride, And hug it in mine arms." —William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure
|
|
rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
|
|
posted October 28, 2009 11:08 AM |
|
|
|
In 1v1 situations, shouldn't phoenix numbers be doubled - e.g. 50 Black dragons vs 100 Phoenix?
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted October 28, 2009 09:47 PM |
|
|
Quote:
In 1v1 situations, shouldn't phoenix numbers be doubled - e.g. 50 Black dragons vs 100 Phoenix?
I'd call that growth factor vs. growth factor, not 1vs1, but I guess it depends on definition (some would probably call 1vs1 for strictly 1 creature vs. 1 creature).
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 29, 2009 01:07 AM |
|
Edited by Casihasi at 01:08, 29 Oct 2009.
|
Necro is too strong anyway, all creatures L4-7 should be weaker then those from most towns to make it equal.
But if you look at Vamps, Lichs, Knights and Ghosts, they are not and that is the problem. Necros 4-6 are so useful vs. the map that it makes farming skels easy most of the time.
One thing that wasn´t mentioned (i think) is that you can turn Hydras and any dragons (? don´t remember if it was all of them) into Bones, so their numbers can be higher as well if you find a dwelling (which is not that unusual on random maps)
|
|
Jmaculas
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 29, 2009 12:00 PM |
|
|
-Dread knights (best lvl 6 units)
disagree, think the efreet sultans are a little bit better, coz of their fireshield, firemagic immunity and their speed
And that's IT!
Death blow pwns all! One Dread Knight can do 30-60hp alone! Although no enemy retaliation makes nagas queens better than dread knights 1 v 1. For me fire shield is overrated, the dread knights speed is good enough and the dread knights undead can make it immune to some magic too. For me dread knight is the best followed closely with the naga queen with its 30-30hp damage ea and no enemy retaliation, then the cyclops king splitting them up against sieges makes the enemy walls crumble in no time and coming 4th is efreet sultans. I think we have different tactics so maybe the efreet is best for you.
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted October 29, 2009 03:14 PM |
|
|
For me, the fire immunity and the speed is what makes them the best level 6 in general in my opinion.
Not only does their speed mean they'll win in 1vs1 fights in big numbers, against any other below level 7 unit, but at that given speed, they're faster than any non level 7 units except dragon flies who also have speed 13, but no fire immunity.
This means, you'll be able to make use of attack and retreat tactic on maps with most efficiency when having the efreeti sultan, when the map is poor, and if you get armageddon you might already have won more or less.
And on rich maps, you'll still be able to go faster than many, necropolis would need ghost dragons to go faster than you, but only at speed 14 (+1) which means if you chech your opponent first, and he have less + speed from arties than you, then you'll have initiative, and that's something necropolis is rather weak to in my experience (attack + run with few units, removing several week worth of production only investing 2500 gold pieces, no matter if it's implosion on the skeletons or if it's armageddon on all units).
Also using (rashka?) who've efreeti special (there're no bone dragon special) you'll have equal speed and thereby initiative if you get to attack.
The same tactic can be used against stronghold, tower and foretress, making the fight a lot easier for inferno.
And then there are opponents like Castle, Dungeon, Conflux and Rampart, who not only outspeed you, but 75% also have more or less immune (resistant) creatures.
Though AD + Implo works very well against Rampart as a hit and run in my experience, though I haven't had the chance to use that very often.
Against castle, I suppose blinding the AA's, if they wait, is a good idea as it becomes the efreets turn (or you can also wait to AD's that doesn't matter), but that's still a fight in favor for Castle I believe.
But that is really one of the appeals on inferno to me, not only the demon herding, which I see like a kind of necropolis skeleton herding feature (though probably not as effective, it can still be very good), but they have also a super fast level 7 and a super fast level 6, which means no matter who you fight, if everyone waits, you'll always get either third - and second last wait, or third - and last wait.
Also efreet sultans are immune to blind (being fire immune).
Still if I could I'd of course choose a phoenix over them any day, because of not only superior, but best speed in the game, and otherwise the same features that I believe makes the efreet sultan good (oh and also the detail that in large numbers (try 200 phoenixes vs. 100 AA's) the phoenix seems unstopable.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
scythesong
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 29, 2009 04:09 PM |
|
|
Tactics-wise then? I agree with some points. Consider Ramparts Gold Dragons are among the fastest things in the game, iirc, and Ramparts has the economy to support them.
Personally I'm undecided which among them (the level 6's) are better. I know Ghost vs Bone is no contest in favor of Ghost though, unless you can't afford them.
|
| |
|
|
