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| Thread: The game, and its future with its gamers. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 30, 2001 04:13 AM |
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The game, and its future with its gamers.
I always find that eventually, in some twist of fate, that game begins to slip into boredom. That's because sometimes it is like it has been overworked and exploited fully, with nothing new left to achieve?
So how of the future implementations of patches which could change and improve gameplay? No I am not talking about mods (modifications). Mods change the entire game itself into something new. What I ask is what of taking what we have and adding to it?
I am aware that a company might not be able to take on a prolonged effort at adding to a game, but even just a small effort would help extend a game's life greatly.
I want to take a game and play it to its fullest extent for as long as possible, don't you?
-Maximane
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted July 30, 2001 11:34 AM |
bonus applied. |
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My words from your mouth...
You said it Maxi...
If we're talking about HoMM3 I can say that I have stopped just now playing it. Still as multiplayer game it sometimes still inspires to try game or two but then I notice so many things that could be different and after those games I leave the game to gather some dust until I again find it.
I really think that 3do/NWC (whatever) took very important step by changing now the game engine so example scriptsystem can be implented. I fully believe that if we have same kind of gameplay as in HoMM3 with little bit more detail, tweaked creatures and better AI we will have winner in our hands.
Also important part of how long you can play the game is balance between singleplayer/multiplayer. We must have good singleplayer campaigns and to get into this is improve the AI. If we're talking about multiplayer games it's vitally important that there are more balance when considering differences between different towns and tactics. Hit'n'run issue must be solved (there also others). I think there are many players who have been frustrated by how multiplaying is in HoMM3.
Variety of maps of course add the longlivety of game and that scripting system if it works well and you do stuff that Gus said in interview, there will be intriguing maps in the net after game is out.
Of course, something might go wrong and one of the aspects of danger is that 3do goes to lure new players with this new engine but forgets the old fans. There might also problem with expansions if 3do hasn't fully understand that what word "expansion" truly means.
I'm eager to see how HoMM IV turns out. There are new competition in the field of turn based fantasy games and it's possible that in the future there is some other game that I found as pleasant as Heroes series have been.
I think that Heroes series hasn't reached even it's peak and I wish that HoMM IV could be it. Nightmare would be that it would ruin the whole series with enchanted graphics and gameplay that is twisted towards other games in the genre like Disciples and others. I have found that none of these games at least until now come even close in gameplay or in desing when compared to heroes.
I'm not going to go to details but instead I will just say that I have never waited any other game like I waited HoMM3 and I wait HoMM IV even more...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 30, 2001 08:06 PM |
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Precisely
Quality over quantity will always take precidence.
The only thing they need to improve apon to make something like this work is their Expansion Packs. A great method to adding to the game.
Only problem is that even with expansions like Armageddon Blade, is that it really never expanded to the game.
Their future expansion packs need to not only expand the storyline, but the gameplay. This because once you have completed the campaigns, what is left? The units will be the same old units and the towns the same with the gameplay the same.
THAT needs to change.
A great thing they should do is to create new scripts and systems. The gameplay could then improve with each consecutive expansion pack. As long as a pack has a new element to it, then it no longer is just a campaign expander.
-Maximane
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2001 09:14 PM |
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Yes...
Either new scripts or much more comprehensive editor. I think some of the longest lasting as far as interesting play games I've encountered started slow, but when fans found how much they could edit in or out... I still play PG2 about 6 years after it's release, and the editor it came with sucks pretty much. Well, actually it doens't- but no new maps is a big limitation, some fans learned the code and made new maps though. Amazing.
If you look at how other games which are now famous have survied so long, you can name it expansion packs, mods, etc- whatever it was it added to the gameplay not just some new maps or campaigns. Also I think 3DO is only partially making an effort on the online possabilities of heroes. Maybe their market research tells them it's not a franchise with that many possabilities, but if you see how many people treat it more like an RPG right now when it certainly isn't an RPG, wonder how many more will when H4 comes out and has some real RPG elements? I don't think it will ever be in the same field as Ultima or Everquest, but then again, those field weren't there before those games either... it's interesting to see what will happen. Fail big, or fail small, or maybe just no splash at all.
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Dark_hunter7
Known Hero
Order, mages, lords, the RULE
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posted July 30, 2001 11:09 PM |
bonus applied. |
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right, totally true...
no one can really tell if its going to be a big one, however we can find some assurance if we look in the past. lets see here we have the beggining: King's bounty. very old homm style game.. I dont know how succesful it was though... the homm1 it was a bit easier and improved graphics abit.. also I believe the map editing was available... new features also included many save games, and basically less restriction to what u can do in terms of saving, new games etc...
then it evolved into homm2 wich I belive if i recall quite a hit. with better graphics again and improved gameplay interface and map editor too, they built an expansion for it.
then we hit today with the present, HOMM3 wich was a big improvement in graphics and provided more options, and more towns than ever before. Campaigns gave u more options and deeper storyline than before... however it started becoming bold so the expansion was finished... witch added the 9th town! and even more campaign.. but I believe they made a mistake with the towns and heroes... sure u get more option and more towns but that madfe all the towns, except 4 looks and creatures, the same.. it took a bite out of strategy and uniquness. by the later stages of the game, strategy and uniquness didtnt exist strongly... i mean it wasnt as important.. just power.. and usually after the 1st 30 minuits of the game u can make a pretty clear estimate as to what will happen.. so there was not much more to find out. This made the game dull and too........... looping if u get my drift.
then 3do sought to further improve the game by creating shadw of death witch added a few more artifacts i belive and more campaigns and thats about it... I think many ppl felt ripped off when they bought it and by next week they realised it did barely anything to enhance gaming experience. I also feel that 3do created the second expansion to keep players "alive" and concious of homm's existance, while constructing homm4 and now they have completed it.. just needing to seal patches and do the paint if u follow me...
now here we are asking, so may the outcome of homm4 be? the death of the heroes series? or the start of a new and improved strategy-roleplay gameiong experience? or just a boring continual of homm series that just makes slight and silent improvements?
my hypothesis, if u will, is that
-[fact] 3do has noticed the problems in homm3,
-[fact] they have acted upon it
-[thought] they have made serious improvements in those "holes"
-[thought]85% of all those that have HOMM3 will buy it, 25% of gamers unfamiliar to homm will buy it, 99% of all HC members will buy it
-[fact] I CERTAINLY WILL
-[thought] it will be a "known"<->"well-known" game
if any of you have different or similar *OR* same ideas about what i said, feel free to post, i dare you
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I'm back.... yessssss
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 31, 2001 09:33 AM |
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Some guess
Waiting h4 and being bored, here comes some ideas and guess:
<Fact>: maybe 3wo (3DO/NWC) knows homm series begins to repeat itself, so they make some quite radical changes in gameplay.
<Fact>: I like some of the changes. 
<Guess>: 3wo make less towns and creatures in h4. Their explanation is that to make every creature and town unique and interesting. My understanding is that MAYBE they reserve something for the expansion coz usually expansion is more profitable than original game due to less cost in game development. 
<Fact>: despite the less number of towns and creatures, I will still buy h4.
<Guess>: To attract new players (well, we are all ˇ§newˇ¨ players to h4 anyway), 3wo needs to have some new and interesting features into the game, make some ˇ§introductoryˇ¨ maps or campaigns to make ppl familiar with the game play. As I know from some interview of some 3wo staff, the h4 campaign would have quite comprehensive introduction to various towns (Fact ?).
Nevertheless, to keep the minds of us, the old fans, what 3wo needs to do is more than that. The depth and the strategic elements of the game need to be kept. An improved multi-player aspects have to be incorporated, more customization allowed and etc etc etc......The scripting system proposed to be incorporated into h4 seems to be a good idea and a good start.
What if homm evolved into a more RPG-wise TBS game ? A hybrid of Everquest/Ultima + homm ??
More fan support?? Charge fee for online playing of homm ??
Some 3wo official tournament with awards ??
Life is full of mystery and surprise. Life is fun.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 31, 2001 12:29 PM |
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Quote:
I always find that eventually, in some twist of fate, that game begins to slip into boredom. That's because sometimes it is like it has been overworked and exploited fully, with nothing new left to achieve?
So how of the future implementations of patches which could change and improve gameplay? No I am not talking about mods (modifications). Mods change the entire game itself into something new. What I ask is what of taking what we have and adding to it?
I am aware that a company might not be able to take on a prolonged effort at adding to a game, but even just a small effort would help extend a game's life greatly.
I want to take a game and play it to its fullest extent for as long as possible, don't you?
-Maximane
Im still not sure maximane are you talking about homm 3 or about homm 4 when it comes out.
If its about homm 3 then i dont think they will update/improve the gameplay of this game at all now since 4 is coming out.
But if your talking about 4 i still really doubt if it gets a bit old and a bit stale that they will add to the gameplay. I mean i cant think of a single expansion pack/ patch that changes how the game works of any game. (no doubt someone will find one though)
Most/all just make minor changes to balance out errors and add new towns/people/items in to the game.
Heres a small list:
diablo 2 expansion added new items,monsters,characters made no changes to gameplay.
Rise of Rome added new civs to play, new maps and new campaign made no changes to game play.
Baldurs gate expansion added new areas, new enemys, new quests but no changes to game play
etc etc
To me if its a really good game no real changes will be needed to keep it fun and exciting. However if it does get a bit dull after a while ill be looking for a mod (I really like mods some even end up better than the original)
and not holding my breath for a real expansion of the game to add any big changes.
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 31, 2001 07:31 PM |
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No. Anyone can make new maps or campaigns.
I'm talking about added style to the game. Scripts and systems.
3D0/NWC have shown through the past that they can create expansions with the added campaigns and maps (look at Armageddon Blade). But we're talking about added style to the game later on after the game is released. Having itself improved little by little as time progresses. This keeps us more interested in the game and continue to play.
I personally enjoy playing Starcraft for the reason that it has an awesome Campaign Manager. You can create very advanced trigger systems and events. Hell, I've played maps which were RPG in Starcraft, and this game is based off of strategy?
3D0/NWC can do TWO things for us:
1) Create a comprehensive series of added scripts and systems to the game as time elapses.
OR
2) Create an advanced map/campaign mananger to enable US to create those script and systems.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 01, 2001 11:09 AM |
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How about?...
Here are some suggestion for expansion (If they aren't already in HoMM IV) taken from my mind but mostly from this board. I have possibly changed them little to my taste little...
- No new towns necessarily (If new towns are added magic school things wouldn't be balanced anymore or there should be at least five! new towns so each magic school has new one.)
BUT
One or two creatures to each town (new level?) this would mean people have to figure new way to use those units in old towns as you cannot pick the "best" building route in creature dwellings.
- Some new abilities to certain creatures in each town. This would mean that creatures can be used in new way.
- New campaigns
AND
- Changes into campaigns earlier such like more toughness or new strategies. This would mean that old campaigns could be played again and again.
AND
Good campaign editor which can be used to do as fine campaigns as are in original game (or even better).
- Ability to include pictures, sounds, musics into the mapeditor from outside of the game. Gus said that it not now but maybe in the expansions.
- New structures into the mapeditor to be used. This would mean that you wouldn't have the same old stuff there but instead lot more new structures that are useful.
- Scripts system is enchanted and there are more available "ready scripts" for each item.
- New skills that add some twist to gameplay and are necessary for other improvements added to the game.
- "Rank and command" system which adds strategic depth as you have to have good rank to be able to control the creatures in your army. (I don't know what kind of system 3do has designed as they mentioned something about bonuses when heroes are in command radius in battle) This system would affect even outside the battle and make creatures possible even flee or join the enemy if you cannot control them. Other heroes (if rank is high enough) will add heroes control value of someone commanding an army.
- Siegebattles more variable and overall tactics also. All tactics that are superior or otherwise are toned down so it would mean that player skill is more important than picked tactic.
- Advanced resources: this would add few more resources to game. This entirely optional and if people like it. It could be put into next HoMM.
- Resource management: Player have to decide in which town keep the resources and then move them to town that needs them. This could be done by caravans that are either invisible but can be ambushed or even visible moving from town to town.
- Armies could loot and pillage. Every town wouldn't be "safe" now as one could take them and destroy buildings in them if army has enough troops and can control the "riots" of creatures of town. Even adventure map buildings could be taken down.
There are also other interesting that I have found from this board but I have to rest now little bit and maybe someone have commented this during that time...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 02, 2001 02:08 AM |
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Interesting
I think the whole idea of an expansion is pretty simple and pretty basic and just meant to milk a game of all of it's monetary worth for the publishers. I mean surely there were games out there that flopped in terms of sales and the first thing the company decides to do is bring out an expansion pack so that those that bought the game in the first place will fork out extra money for something that's probably been tossed together fairly quickly.
If you look at a circle and then take the term expansion, then it means making the circle larger. The same applies to games, everything becomes a little bit bigger, there's more things to do, but the original circle doesn't change much at all. You seem to forget that with a game being released, the expansion is designed to ride the wave of success in which the original game was purchased. I mean if Heroes 3 came out with no hit and run and in Armageddon's Blade, hit and run was allowed, it is something that would probably destroy the whole gaming experience for someone.
With expansion packs, I expect the game to remain unchanged in terms of gameplay. I just expect different things, the same flower, just a slightly different colour. More towns, more heroes, more monsters more maps, more artifacts and maybe a few extra map additions. This is enough of an expansion for me and I can buy it knowing that my favourite game will still be my favourite game when I install the disc, only bigger.
The changes that some of you look at will surely turn people off if they don't like them. An expansion should be safe in my opinion, otherwise I might just start looking for something else to play.
I see what you mean when you say that the expansions for Homm3 were garbage. 3do/nwc did very very little work and produced something that was BARELY classified as an expansion disc. A revamped intro and title screen, a random map generator and a few new campaigns and artifacts with one new town. I mean this sort of stuff can be done within a day, and yet both expansion packs cost probably a bit more than the original game did itself.
I'd like to see some more thought into expansions, I want to see quantity, because I already bought the quality aspect when I bought the first game and I'm pretty happy with it. Please sir... can I have some more?
MORE???
YOU WANT MORE???
*smile*
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted August 02, 2001 03:32 AM |
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Expansionist Ideas...
The new expansions could be an easy fit. Every time you introduce a new town it has it's own formerly unknown school of magic.
life
death
chaos
order
nature
If you stay with the 5 pointed star you could have 5 more hybrid schools of mixed magic. Since the creators of HOMM4 are barrowing alot form the magic card game the hybrid magic would look like the gold magic card spells.
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 02, 2001 07:57 AM |
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I understand Shae...
You don't want that overall gameplay changes too much from the original game. But how about getting out two expansions? I mean how could they more of crap than expansions in HoMM3?
I have said this idea before, but how about two expansion where the first one is kinda what you would like to see: More towns, more creatures, more campaigns some minor
changes only to gameplay.
Second one would be more like "test" packet or packet for experts: It would contain some more creatures but it would also change gameplay so game would gain more strategic depth. Some of the changes could be from my list above. There could be also some kind of test of new gameplay that is controversial like new resources and this would like tryout for the next HoMM.
So the first one would truly expansion for original and second kinda test for future HoMMs.
Despite this all discussion here, I somehow fear that 3do will go the route that it knows the best so we are going to see more than one expansions that are mostly stuffed with stuff that was in Armageddon's blade etc.
This is very sad as I see that Heroes is one of the games that should be done in a way that in can be played again and again. Without expansion large enough we hardly can dream that game is played so long. We can see that HoMM3 is still played but I somehow think it's because people would like to see new heroes game coming and not because HoMM3 was so great. I think it was only good and expansions were...ern...I think I won't use that word here.
3DO despite what kind of fan policy they have should understand that they hold true GEM in their pockets and they should truly reveal it to people to see from their hand. This doesn't happen if fans aren't listened properly and I fear that Heroes will go more into direction of other games in the future losing it's unique way because of business matters involved. Gaming has become too big business to miss to anyone and gaming companies are trying to cash every way they find. One thing is mostly probling me is that are there Vampires in HoMM IV. There is another thread for that discussion I know but how can gamecompany take one of the most unique creatures and maybe one most liked because of its powers to be taken away? If this truly has happened there is the danger that 3DO has know idea what kind of series Heroes is and for who it is meant for. I know that people say that companies don't think that way but still in my view Heroes is...
Not for customers but for fans...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 02, 2001 09:30 AM |
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Sha
I find it really hard to swallow when people say that they have more involvement in a game than the game designers do. New World are responsible for the game, they have taken it and created it from scratch, they probably WOULD do everything that the fans ask for because they're gamers really, just like us. But they have a publisher, the publisher has goals and deadlines and criteria which they want the game to fill and I think sadly, NWO have to go down a certain route in order to get HoMM4 published. We're just the people that play with their baby, we may provide input to help the baby grow a little bit, but I don't think we could possibly love the game any more than the developers could. I think it's important that we distinguish 3do from NWO. I have a lot more respect for a design team than I do for a software publisher.
I like your idea about the two expansion packs, I think it's great. Expansions do help revive interest in a game for the old experts, and there is two ways that interest can be piqued again, just as you have shown above.
I'm not sure what sort of timeline developers work to, but to me, the game scene seems a lot slower than it used to be in the early nineties. Of course games have gone from being produced by small teams to huge numbers of people, it's a pity that the process for sequels isn't any quicker. And as time goes on and gaming becomes more and more elaborate, it's going to take longer and longer to create sequels/new games. I think expansions are a way of filling in the time between one game and another and as such, they DO need to be thought out better. I mean Heroes 3 cost about $30US when I got it, Armageddon's blade was $25US and the rare and hard to find Shadow of Death I saw recently for $45US. I bought AB, but didn't bother with SOD, because I felt that it had nothing except a few new arts and a few campaigns.
Expansions at the moment are designed for single player interest, which is a pity, because I feel that Internet play now dictates a lot more of a games revenue than it's single player value. Hell if I can't play it on Zone, then I don't buy it. AB has virtually no multiplayer value at all to me, other than the conflux, which is a forgettable town at the very least. But it does have a few old creatures from HoMM2, which is... well not really worth my $25 dollars is it? I can have as much fun playing RoE as I can AB. It would have been great if AB had 3 or 4 new towns instead of one, 20 or 30 new heroes and a whole heap of new artifacts and terrain features. This for me is an expansion and would, in it's 'newness' probably change tactics and a few proven methods anyway. It's a pity 3do took my money and gave me nothing.
*smile*
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 02, 2001 09:52 AM |
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Let's have a quickie...
My answer I mean...
Shae
Um, you are right about dividing "game company" to designer team NWC and to software publisher 3DO. But we don't know what kind of mix up people there is when they get to really decide gaming issues. Is NWC the listener when 3DO tells what to do or does NWC all the work and 3DO just publishes. I have no idea about this.
What I said was most of do with 3do as it's a problem if they don't know what kind of game heroes is and the fact that some of fans here see heroes even it's own genre when compared to other fantasy games.
I now must remind you that you're one that said that 3do went graphic route this time...
Yes, designers should love their product I'm sure of it. Just listen Maranthea...She is speaking of the game like it's her baby (maybe it's different for women, you know)...
I'm not saying that I'm the right person to say what kind of game heroes should be but I think we can surely say that in this community hardly nobody wants to heroes go for the route "game for the masses".
I think people want to see heroes still as it's own place. Still some changes must be done so business issues can be addressed and new customers/players will come to join the game. But this only because without some new customers there will be no game at all or maybe the freedom of designing will be lined with issue being that game doesn't product enough the green thing (money I mean).
It's possible that 3do saw that game couldn't maintain it's form without losign potential customers. However I have asked many times not directly from anyone but in general will HoMM IV go over the line and lose it edge compared to competition coming from the likes of Age of Wonders. Of course there is room for everybody but should heroes really change so much that they can get more and more customers? Shouldn't it be a game that truly would be admired by the fans?I think designers NWC is trying to do this but it's different thing what kind of goals 3do has.
This end up being pretty long post again after all, but what the heck...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 02, 2001 05:50 PM |
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In the early version of NBA game (EA Sports), you canˇ¦t play with Michal Jordon. Why ? The game designer just canˇ¦t pay that much for it. Gaming is now a really BIG business. So they cannot take too much risk or they will lose badly which they cannot afford.
To them, expansion = money. Nothing less, nothing more.
A bit pessimistic but true.
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted August 02, 2001 08:40 PM |
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There are some basic facts that we all should now know.
There will be a HOMM4 expansion, probably several. Why? people at 3DO have to have work to do, and they know that HOMM is a prime franchise that gives them a paycheck and something to do. Since HOMM4 is already done, they probably have a team working on the expansion as we speak, new campaigns, towns, creatures, etc.
HOMM4 will be better than HOMM3. Why? Every new game has been an improvement so far and until they fail I give them the benefit of the doubt. Also the game, rules, heroes, creatures & magic look awesome.
There will be a HOMM5. Why? We're talking 3DO.
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 03, 2001 03:15 AM |
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could be...
Thunderknight is right really, also all the points made about the risk, sure these games make money, but unless it's a huge success they don't make that much money. I personally think many publishers spend way too much money on the packaging, but I read somewhere that Wal-Mart now sells more computer games than any other retailer, so there is your answer. And the games they are selling are for sure not TBS. I don't think TBS will ever be succesful on it's own rights, if it evolves into something more like I think it will, a RPG/TBS/RTA/RTS/VUW... making the characters portable as in RPG so you have a real interest in developing them, and creating an online world where there are many different things to do. I think it's a few years away, but the generation growing up now has always had video games, when they have more purchasing power which will be very soon, it will be a different world. Even the 30's somethings now had arcade games and the Amiga etc when they were young, but not in every household, this will be different, entertainment as endemic as the television. It will be hard to make something new and interesting all the time, people get jaded after years, but I see many new things coming out now which are only recycled ideas from earlier only now the technology makes them work better.
Sha-man; what was that you said about it being different from women? LOL Where are you from again? your women obviously haven't domesticated you yet.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 03, 2001 04:17 AM |
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Domesticated?
Me?
Are you kidding me?
LOL
I'm from Finland and especially here women want to domesticate their men. It's like common tradition and men end up being like ***** cats (no offence).
I have met many interesting woman in my life but never such that could really domesticate me. It seems that these little creatures don't have the same mental power as men have (or at least me). Or maybe it's just different kind of power...LOL
And as usual I can't disagree with you Ichon with that game and future of gaming thing...
____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 03, 2001 11:28 AM |
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LOL Sha!!!!
Are you sure about not having met a girl who could domesticate you?
I'd have you washing dishes and sweeping the floor in no time, trust me...
*smile*
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 03, 2001 11:46 AM |
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Well, I have met one...
But she wasn't so interested about domesticating me...
You know when women have someone domesticated they don't want usually domesticate anyone else. Seems that one is enough for them (is this true? Who knows...). I truly respect this because it's loyalty.
And this woman I met had one already domesticated in his cell. However I'm not sure am I truly ready right now to be domesticated as it isn't really easy process.
As said I'm free like a bird...
Now about original subject little...
How many think that there are going to be some kind of real time strategy Heroes game in the future like Warlords have? Or are there only some realtime elements added to Heroes?
I some how see realtimestrategies more popular right now than turn-bases ones and there are more easily be marketed. People like fast action and heroes sometimes isn't so quick gaming. It's tries to be more in the middle but I'm not sure how long this will sell?...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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