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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 27, 2005 07:36 PM |
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Yeah; let's only hope that this will lead to a new liberal and social China, and not a conservative one...
Speaking of the Sino-Japanese relationship:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-05/24/content_445013.htm
Quote:
Koizumi has paid four such sojourns to the Tokyo-based Yasukuni Shrine since taking office in April 2001. The memorial honours 14 Class-A World War II criminals along with a multitude of Japanese war dead.
Each time the prime minister chooses to go to the site, he outrages much of Asia, especially his Chinese and Korean neighbours who view the visits as having salt rubbed in their wounds. The pilgrimages honour Imperial Army war criminals who were then at the helm of the Japanese forces and oversaw murder, rape and the pillaging of Japan's Asian neighbours during World War II.
Such visits are like a sitting German chancellor annually visiting the bunker where Hitler committed suicide in order to honour the Nazi leadership. The world would not tolerate such an act. So how can this kind of thing happen in Japan?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 29, 2005 05:14 AM |
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Is it just me or there was some serious Japanese bash in this thread? For all i know, the Japs are wonderful, calm and peacefull folk and their national profile shouldnt be polluted by the excesses of few sad exceptions.
Consis, to my knowledge, its neither astrology nor astronomy the Chinese invented. Astrology - because the standard symbolical constellations (zodiac and planet influences, and the like) as we know them, are of Greaco-Roman origin, and astronomy - because you cant invent that, its a science they might have had, like others, very much developed, but i'm not familiar to which extent respectfully. Anyway there is the so called "Chinese horoscope" so it's probably based on some stelar systems, a kind of Chinese astrology. btw, i'm a rabbit according to the damn thing. 
The discussion you started about the diffeent metaphysical understandings of the Japanese and Chinese; i find it great, as I remember reading about this differences between cyclic and linear understandings. But its more than just that; its a way of functioning, evolution, very essence of world grasping if you like. And it's argued that historically civilizations with this sort of linear metaphysical matrix, historically have had bigger success than those with cyclic. The Judeo-Christian and Islamic civilization being one example, the Japanese, as you say now as well, as opposed to the Hindu, Chinese and other tribal cyclical systems. [a small digression: note that the systems are based on religious philosophic systems, as they are the ones with most profound influence over national philosophical schools]
I usually disregard this kind of grossly-oversimplified, unproven, vague generalizations, but none the less, i find it interesting to speculate.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 29, 2005 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
Is it just me or there was some serious Japanese bash in this thread? For all i know, the Japs are wonderful, calm and peacefull folk and their national profile shouldnt be polluted by the excesses of few sad exceptions.
Although you do have a point - this thread has occationly regressed to Japanese-bashing (and I know I myself ain't innocent in this respect, something I of course apologise for) - I think we manage to stay away from such idiocy most of the time. And of course, the Japanese culture is a marvellous thing - who can do anything but admire the way they first managed to lift themselves out of the Middle Ages and directly into the Industrial Age in the latter half of the 19th century, and then, 100 years later, rebuild their country and send their economy to heavens.
But despite of this, the Japanese culture do have some scary elements, but so does every culture, so that's no biggy, really. However, what I criticise the Japs for, as I do with the Americans for that matter, is that they have voted into office a bunch of neo conservatives who are fond of unilateralism, nationalism and national pride/self-assertion. These ideals are against my own, so I criticise them.
Quote:
Consis, to my knowledge, its neither astrology nor astronomy the Chinese invented. Astrology - because the standard symbolical constellations (zodiac and planet influences, and the like) as we know them, are of Greaco-Roman origin, and astronomy - because you cant invent that, its a science they might have had, like others, very much developed, but i'm not familiar to which extent respectfully. Anyway there is the so called "Chinese horoscope" so it's probably based on some stelar systems, a kind of Chinese astrology. btw, i'm a rabbit according to the damn thing.
Haha, rabbit, eh? Sounds just like you, Svarog. 
As for astrology, the earliest "scientific" astrologers that we know of (i.e. have written sources about) lived in Mesopotamia. Some years before the Chinese guys got into all of this....
Quote:
The discussion you started about the diffeent metaphysical understandings of the Japanese and Chinese; i find it great, as I remember reading about this differences between cyclic and linear understandings. But its more than just that; its a way of functioning, evolution, very essence of world grasping if you like. And it's argued that historically civilizations with this sort of linear metaphysical matrix, historically have had bigger success than those with cyclic. The Judeo-Christian and Islamic civilization being one example, the Japanese, as you say now as well, as opposed to the Hindu, Chinese and other tribal cyclical systems. [a small digression: note that the systems are based on religious philosophic systems, as they are the ones with most profound influence over national philosophical schools]
I usually disregard this kind of grossly-oversimplified, unproven, vague generalizations, but none the less, i find it interesting to speculate.
Of course it is interesting to speculate, but it is easy to cross the line in such speculations; moving from describing how "linear" views on history is an advantage, to how "civilisations" who traditionally have confessed their belief in such linear views are superior to those who doesn't. And this is a mighty dangerous path to take, as I am sure you're aware of.
Also, it is easy to be come a Huntingtonian believer in the "clash of civilisations" by following such lines of thought.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 30, 2005 05:12 AM |
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No no no.. You misread where I said "bigger success". Thats clearly not meant as "superior", but in terms of "political, millitary and economical success", or in other words: do these opposite philosophical views have any influence over the societies that hold them and their achievements? And to what extent?
ps: how am i a rabbit exactly? 
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 31, 2005 12:47 AM |
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Tiny brain, short span of concentration, always jumping around with a soon-to-happen heart attack, and always ready to do some humping.
Well, "better" is a word I have some problems with, being a relativist and all. Better what? Who's got the authority to say that "this is better than that"? And why should we agree with them?
Personally, I think other variables are more deceicive to their (political, economic and military) developement than what kind of form history has according to their belief system.
Which in any case is naught but opium.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 04, 2005 02:22 PM |
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Looming Fears And Cold War Sugar Plums
Quote:
"I just look at the significant rollout of ballistic missiles opposite Taiwan, and I have to ask the question: If everyone agrees the question of Taiwan is going to be settled in a peaceful way, why this increase in ballistic missiles opposite Taiwan?"
~Donald Rumsfeld
Hmm, I wonder . . . . what those missiles are for?
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 04, 2005 10:30 PM |
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Oh, I don't know. A show of power, perhaps?
Speaking of Donny, btw. A Norwegian communist party has reported him to the police, with accusations of war crimes. So, when he comes to Norway next Thursday, there's a possibility that he'll be taken in for a small interrogation.
Although nothing was done when a similar report was made on Sharon a couple of years ago. And besides, diplomatic immunity'll protect him.
Sorry for going off-topic, guys.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted June 05, 2005 04:26 AM |
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Has anyone asked the US, if we believe they arent planning on nuking all the world, why they arent too thrilled with the idea of reducing their nuclear arsenal?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 07, 2005 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
Has anyone asked the US, if we believe they arent planning on nuking all the world, why they arent too thrilled with the idea of reducing their nuclear arsenal?
You know Svarog, Standards are good, double standards are twice as good
Regards
Defreni
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ConanAmra
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 10, 2005 08:17 AM |
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I can only agree with Svarog,why arent the Americans about their own affairs?why cant they reduce their nuclear powers and weapons?Why are they so interested in all countries all over world and they want to help them to be more democratic and to be free?Is Iraq now free??Every day are tens of people dying there because of America,Im not saying that Sadam was some good guy,but now it is only worse.Where were the nuclear weapons of mass destruction?nowhere,Americans needed Oil fields thats the only thing,Bush is only a doll in hands of big Oil companys and weapon producers.
China will be in few years one from the strongest world power in the world even though their opposite countries were saying that communism is the greatest evil on Earth.China was patient and now is going step after step to be strong.I admire the people of China and the culture of the country,how could they live so many on so little place to grow food.Thats why the regulations are needed,because they must share every place for living,it is not like in USA where they have got farms and farms and a lot of food,no in China every meter of ground is so valuable for them.
This is a really great country with oldest history which wasnt destroyed like any other races like summerians,persians,egyptians,China is still here.
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When you go to hell tell my mom that i sent you,
you get a group discount.
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soccerfeva
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted August 10, 2005 08:33 AM |
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Quote:
Is it just me or there was some serious Japanese bash in this thread? For all i know, the Japs are wonderful, calm and peacefull folk and their national profile shouldnt be polluted by the excesses of few sad exceptions.
The japs are cruel in WW II. The extent of their cruelty in WW II cannot be underestimated. I know because my country was once under their invasion.
But WW II is history. I think we're more concerned about sushi now.
~edit~ a little true, but the japanese soldiers in WW II were just terrible. The Jap government also tried to rewrite history textbooks in such a way that they were not so much at fault, which led to a lot of complaints from the chinese. I think most of the japs are nice ppl now. But what they did in WW II...
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 23, 2005 08:47 PM |
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A Clear Sign . . .
China and Russia have begun a joint military operation in the East China Sea. It is a joint amphibious assault on the Chinese mainland not far from Taiwan. It is not unlike the kind of assault one might see if Taiwan were invaded.
They're calling it an "exercise".
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
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posted August 24, 2005 07:23 AM |
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Those excersises are more or less a political statement to mark the waning American influence and superiority in the far east. However, to assume that this is a demonstration of a future invasion would not seem to be plausible simply because I do not see what Russia has to gain from a Chinese invasion of Taiwan - on the other hand, IF China held an unilateral military exercise near Taiwan then perhaps we are getting a little taste of what to come.
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
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Roland
Adventuring Hero
Guardian of light
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posted August 24, 2005 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Where were the nuclear weapons of mass destruction?nowhere,Americans needed Oil fields thats the only thing,Bush is only a doll in hands of big Oil companys and weapon producers.
.
I think they were in no place in Iraq.
And yes Mr. bush is a doll in the hand of both companies and fanatics too.
Quote:
China and Russia have begun a joint military operation in the East China Sea. It is a joint amphibious assault on the Chinese mainland not far from Taiwan. It is not unlike the kind of assault one might see if Taiwan were invaded.
Since the USA are trying to be the ruler of the world, and since there are many that are annoyed from that, I think some of them “here Russia and China” are trying to remind the new empire that there is other “strong” countries .
Also they are not as strong the USA , that is why they are trying to gather forces.
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"all I know is I know nothing" Socrates.
"This nation will not thrive unless philosophers rule or the governors philosophize." Plato
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 25, 2005 07:12 AM |
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Check Your Facts
Quote:
Also they are not as strong the USA , that is why they are trying to gather forces.
Russia and the U.S. have at least 20 or more trident-class subs. Both countries have the capability to cover the Earth's surface with nuclear fall out and radioactive material making it rather...um...difficult...to sustain human and most other life forms.
Where in this equation do you somehow see that Russia is weaker than the U.S.? If you're basing your arithmatic on conventional warfare then you'd still be wrong by about 100 million soldiers. Neither Russia nor China is "weaker" than the U.S. militarily speaking. Both are fully capable of defending themselves and both would likely take exception with your sweeping statements.
The U.S. is not what many think it is. It is not the most powerful country in the world. Hypothesis does not = Proven. Talk is cheap...and even if the U.S. did blossom its own personalized home-grown Hitler, the world would join forces to stop us. You can be sure of that!
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Roland
Adventuring Hero
Guardian of light
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posted August 26, 2005 06:58 PM |
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I might be wrong
Quote:
The U.S. is not what many think it is. It is not the most powerful country in the world. Hypothesis does not = Proven. Talk is cheap...and even if the U.S. did blossom its own personalized home-grown Hitler, the world would join forces to stop us. You can be sure of that!
Since there is a very thin line between right and wrong .
Yes my friend I might be wrong.
I’m sure about one thing, I should have explained myself in a better way.
I meant the technology and the influence.
Russia is not the Soviet Union that it used to be. And they don’t have the old influence that they used to have, take the nukes from them and they can do little here in there.
China has an immense army to defend themselves , and they have some influence around their country.
That is why (I think) they are gathering forces to push a little bit the US influence.
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"all I know is I know nothing" Socrates.
"This nation will not thrive unless philosophers rule or the governors philosophize." Plato
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coldmystery
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 04, 2005 12:20 AM |
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China? It really exists?
Wow, I thought China was a land people just made up to explain the slanty eyed genetically engineered fighting machines that were part of a scrapped military program. And that they created chinese resteraunts to give these would be killing machines something to do and invent a fat creating poison in the form of general tso's chicken.... BOY was I off on that one eh?
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted September 04, 2005 12:31 AM |
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Quote:
Wow, I thought China was a land people just made up to explain the slanty eyed genetically engineered fighting machines that were part of a scrapped military program. And that they created chinese resteraunts to give these would be killing machines something to do and invent a fat creating poison in the form of general tso's chicken.... BOY was I off on that one eh?
I'm Chinese American, and I'm unfamiliar with said futuristic fighting machinery and restaurant conspiracy. Sounds like a mix between Empire Earth and a twisted Charlie Chan mystery. Fat creating poison? Must've been invented last night. Slanted eyes? My eyes aren't nearly as slanty as most others, so I dunno what to tell you. I only speak English, so I couldn't ask for dim sum in a Hong Kong restaurant without a language coach. You might say I'm quite Westernized.
Dunno which China you were thinking about.
---
And now, we return to Consis' original topic...
-guitarguy
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 05, 2005 01:32 AM |
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Well it seems like the Chinese governement is playing the tyrant again, not letting people discuss anything they want!
They've been closing down forum like this one about separatists movement and so on. Have a look:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/10/04/china_internet20051004.html
It's sad to see that despite it's advancements, Chinese governement still have a tyrant style. 
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted October 05, 2005 02:25 AM |
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One Thing We Can All Agree On:
The internet is freedom.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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This thread is pages long: 
