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| Thread: Other side QP's |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted March 08, 2005 11:34 PM |
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I personally think that QPs should stay out of debates, but can be awarded for threads like Dreams and, more recently, Downhill Times. These threads have only one side, and focus on the type of introspection that serves to bind this community together, especially when our experiences can help another who is going through a similar thing.
I personally would like to see more of those introspective threads around, and, while debates are all good and usually remain civil, they rarely benefit the community. This is not to say that they don't have merit, I just don't believe debates are the types of threads that should be awarded QPs because tempers usually flare when this is done. If a debate is really active and is drawing members to the scene, then a QP can be given out, but the giver should strongly consider giving one to both sides if possible, especially if the debate is particularly heated or focuses on a touchy subject.
Not all threads about the real world need to be arguments, and it seems that politics is the underlying source of many of those debates. There are other things on the other side of the monitor besides the controversial workings of the world, and perhaps those threads which explore some of the deeper things in this place we call the real world are the most deserving of QPs in this forum.
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>_>
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted March 09, 2005 12:38 AM |
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Pandora, you answered your own question...in the same Post that you asked it!  Quote:
And on the flip side: a member posts often but his posts are not 'quality' so he feels unnoticed and unappreciated.
This points to the question then - what is quality?
Do we define quality by writing skill? If so then what of those who speak english as a second language? They likely spend twice the time posting, as they are often thinking first in one language, and then translating - if their wording is clumsy or difficult to understand due to the english - does that mean its of less quality?
If we reward one side in a debate - are we implying that we appreciate the opinion represented? Are we alienating the other person - by making them feel as though their opinion is not valid, or not worthy?
Then if we try to reach a balance and reward both sides, we run the risk of making the QP mean much less, because one arguement may have been written very well, and its point made clearly, but a less than stellar reply gets a 'token' QP just for being there.
So how would you define Quality when we're talking about the otherside?
I can understand that someone might disagree with a QP being issued in a particular circumstance, but I don't see that "disagreement" being powerful enough to drive someone to leave HC. Even if the person isn't jealous of the QP and is basing their "disagreement" on facts/statistics/whatever...they will eventually get over it/move on and can always get an explanation as to why the QP was given out by the specific Moderator.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 09, 2005 03:48 AM |
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What If...
I think we're taking this too seriously.
You guys can continue to think of them as "Quality Points". Quality is really more of a distinction between the giver and the receiver. X moderator liked what Y member had to say so he/she awarded him/her an achievment point. Points on this level will ultimately lead to Heroes Community aristocracies. Those who have more 'Quality' in their posts gain more favor and so forth.
A person may have quality but to be honest with everyone, I do not recognize any achievment awards given by any uncertified organizations. If I want an award for science then I would look to impress the Nobel committee board members. Heroes Community is nothing more than a social gathering spot for multi-nationals who love to play fantasy games.
If you walk up to someone on the street, tell them a joke, and they hand you a little card(with a star on it) saying that your joke was of "good quality" then this means very little to me. But if you take your joke to a real live casino in Vegas and you can get half-drunk multi-nationals to break out in uncontrolled laughter then this means something to me. When it's real, you don't need an award to tell you so. Real awards come from real people who look at the whole person and not some fictional internet alternate identity.
Make Heroes Community fun. Play it like a game. Get more stars. Have more fun.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted March 09, 2005 06:16 AM |
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Enough with the QP Guides! Just beg for a QP the old fashion way!
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted March 09, 2005 01:51 PM |
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Personally I'm with Concis on this one.
Stars are part of the board and when I offered to Mod the Other Side I bought the whole Mod package.
Since I don't have a particular axe to grind on any political front then I can't see myself being accused of favoritism - it may happen one day, but at the minute I think we're out of that particular danger zone.
That being said, inthe Same Sex Marriage thread and Bi-Sexual people thread I'll leave the stars to Pandora though, just incase 
I've only given 1 star, to Terje since I took on this forum - but I'm planning on giving more.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted March 09, 2005 05:45 PM |
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Quote:
I've only given 1 star, to Terje since I took on this forum - but I'm planning on giving more.
That's music...Asmodean's music ...to my ears! Yay!!!
Start with me...Hahaha!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 09, 2005 05:48 PM |
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I agree that stars a part of the board, and such should be a part of the Otherside too. I was never thinking they should be taken out of this forum. I just felt that when Conan brough the topic out anyway, we may as well hear different viewpoints. I have seen posts before by some members in the feedback thread, but during a time when there were other matters being discussed as well. It seemed to me that talking about this now when there are no heated arguements or problems going on would be the best time to get a feel for what people want.
I have to strongly disagree with Consis, to prove my point I went out this morning and 100 little cards with red stars on them, and started giving them to people for behaving as i thought a good human should. I began with my own children, they think they're the greatest thing ever - and have already started creating different games they can play with them. Then I gave one to a lady who said good morning to me as i walked by, she was so delighted she chased me down for a while saying hello in many different ways - I knew she just wanted more... I can smell a QP hunter from a mile away.
I gave one to the guy at the gas station too, he was so moved that he let me know the milk was on a 40% markup and he gave me a discount. Since he did this even after recieving the star, I gave him another one for his honour. I bet right now he is still smiling.
Okay, that may have been a wee bit offtopic. I think one thing that could be good here is more member feedback on specific QP's, I am not saying that we should have constant demands for QP's here. But sometimes a post might really speak to you, and if you feel strongly feel free to tell us in the feedback thread. Even if the post doesn't end up recieving a QP its a way to let another member know that you appreciated their post
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted March 09, 2005 07:11 PM |
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Dear Pan -- First of all I agree entirely with Consis' first post. Up with Red Stars! YAY!!!
I voted for more stars in Other Side for the following two reasons.
First, of late there appear to be more quality posts popping up in Other Side.
Second, the forum has recently gained several new regulars with diverse perspectives, including political perspectives. The breadth and quality of the discussions and debates (IMHO) have increased.
You have raised some good questions regarding what defines "quality" here. Thanks for inviting us to speak on them:Quote:
Do we define quality by writing skill? If so then what of those who speak english as a second language? They likely spend twice the time posting, as they are often thinking first in one language, and then translating - if their wording is clumsy or difficult to understand due to the english - does that mean its of less quality?
I think as a mod you can consider all aspects in contemplating the award of a given post. For instance, if it is apparent that an individual is operating in English as a second language, or struggles more than others with the written word, you can take that into account if the wording is rough but the post still makes a good point or is otherwise of high quality for other reasons.
Quote:
If we reward one side in a debate - are we implying that we appreciate the opinion represented? Are we alienating the other person - by making them feel as though their opinion is not valid, or not worthy?
I for one do believe that debate threads are every bit as worthy of red stars as any other kind of discussion. People put a tremendous amount of effort into formulating and wording their arguments, and they should not be treated differently than other members by being deprived of the same reward system applied elsewhere.
How such rewards are perceived by members who happen to disagree with the given perspective of a rewarded post are responsible for their own perceptions, unless the mods are showing a pattern of being irresponsibly biased. So both sides carry their own level of responsibility. If the mods are unbiased in their assessment of posts (which contrary to others I do believe is possible) then responsible members will not feel driven away because they will recognize objectivity. Whiners can take it or leave it. As Consis said, this is Val's creation, he created an award system, and it should be applied to all.
Quote:
Then if we try to reach a balance and reward both sides, we run the risk of making the QP mean much less, because one arguement may have been written very well, and its point made clearly, but a less than stellar reply gets a 'token' QP just for being there.
Again, I think the quality of a given post determines whether it should receive merit. If only one side of a debate is structured well enough to deserve a qp in your assessment, then only one side should be rewarded. I think that the growing diversity in the forum will lessen any perception that the forum is favoritist and make your job a lot easier than you might now think.
Generally, I think of quality posts as those which have any of the following qualities in significant degree:
- Are artful or articulate
- Make a good argument (persuasively written), whether I agree with it or not
- Represent great effort and investment by the writer
- Make me laugh or cry
- Get a string of compliments by several other posters
- Spark serious discussions compelling people to contemplate new thoughts and ideas
- Are personally revelatory or confessional in a productive way for the writer or others
I'm sure other qualities will come to mind if I think more on this. It's not an exclusive list, but maybe it will help a bit.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 09, 2005 07:22 PM |
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Thank you for posting Peacemaker 
My personal opinion is that I think in the Otherside posts should not be rewarded based on the opinions they represent. They should be looked at for Presentation, time spent researching, what they add to the thread they are a part of and how they respond to other posts in the thread. I have seen some great posts wherein someone who diasgreed with one view presented their ideas in such away that they opened another person's eyes to their way of thinking. Those posts are the one i think are best deserving QP - it shouldn't matter if its (example)pro-war or anti-war or what any mod feels about what's written - it should matter how it's written and what the post accomplishes as a part of the thread.
The part where I find decision making becomes difficult, is in that I find a very large number of posts do fit this bill. So by this logic we could be talking about a massive amount of QP going out here in comparison to the other forums.
Now I do understand that the QP should be awarded based on the posts/threads themselves - not weighed against other forums. But at the same time, I would not want the Otherside to appear as though one would be guaranteed to get a QP if they write a decent essay (for example) These types of posts are to an extent almost what are expected in the Otherside, so you're awarding members just for being a part of this. Does it make sense what I'm trying to say? lol
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted March 09, 2005 07:28 PM |
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Bravo, Peacemaker! +QP
Those were my thoughts exactly...No one, let alone Moderators, should feel responsible for someone else's opinions or feelings. If people explain that their actions or decision-making process were unbiased & objective or based on some sort formula...then there should be little to no room for argument.
If people are still offended after someone properly explains themselves, then it is an inherent characteristic of the offended individual. Try as you might, you may never change their mind or help them "move on".
I've had lots of experience with stubborn people or those who think that they are always right...Heck! I work at City Hall and hear it every day dozens of times!...so, I have learned to try explaining things once (maybe twice) and if the person persists in ignoring me or not opening their mind, then I just listen to them and say "Uh huh...yep...I understand...Yes dear...Sure honey!"
Ooops, I seem to have slipped into describing the way I deal with my wife when she is sure about something.
EDIT: Good point, Pandora! I guess that I never looked at it that way before...you should get a +QP for opening my eyes to this!
I guess you are talking about treating the "Other Side of the Monitor" like the "Bard's Glade Pyre" Forum...where many of the Posts would be QP worthy if they weren't being compared to similar Posts in the same Forum but to Posts throughout all of HC.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2005 07:29 PM |
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Edited By: Conan on 9 Mar 2005
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Pandora,
It does make sense, but this has been said about the Glade, in which you can easily get a QP... (I'm sure I read it somewhere)
Of course, I don't post there so I can't say that as a fact. But I do understand where you are coming from and I do agree with you.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted March 09, 2005 07:35 PM |
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Thanks Leo!
Yes Pan, what you're saying makes perfect sense. Especially the more elaborate explanation you gave concerning the avoidance of rewarding a given opinion (substance) rather than the nature of the post (form).
Also, I probably buried the qualfier on my list of typical QP-worthy traits with too much verbiage (as usual.) But my intent was to suggest that those qualities would qualify a post for QP consideration if they are present in significant measure.
I agree that there are hundreds of good posts. I really mean to be referring to the outstanding ones.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2005 07:50 PM |
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maybe a good idea would be for a consensus if a QP is to be given... maybe not to all QP's in the Other side forum, but if you *think* a post is QP worthy, maybe ask in the feedback thread to see other people's take on it...
Just a thought as most people that post here are mature enough.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted March 09, 2005 07:52 PM |
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Each forum has it's own standards for what counts as quality, and it's own Mods as well, who may perceive quality differently.
Although here in the Other Side you have the fortune to be Modded by myself and the lovely Pandora, and through chats in Modsquad and other interactions we've discovered that we have essentially the same interpretation of the QP system.
And the term 'quality' may be a bit misleading to some.
If it helps, replace it with the word 'Effort'.
Someone who gets an 'effort'point in Other Side complies with the criteria Peacemaker proposed, which are generally the criteria I would hand out QP's on.
Only 13 votes on the poll so far, but 9 say there should be at least some QP's given out in the forum.
All I can do is reiterate my first post. YES, I want to give out those lovely red stars in ALL the forums I Mod, and add that NO - I don't mind ever discussing reasons why I do/don't give a particular thread/post a bonus or a penalty.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 09, 2005 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
maybe a good idea would be for a consensus if a QP is to be given... maybe not to all QP's in the Other side forum, but if you *think* a post is QP worthy, maybe ask in the feedback thread to see other people's take on it...
Just a thought as most people that post here are mature enough.
A better suggestion would be for the Mods to discuss this between them, but since it appears that they share views on what's quality, it would be kinda "obsolete" to suggest such a thing.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted March 09, 2005 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
I don't mind ever discussing reasons why I do/don't give a particular thread/post a bonus or a penalty.
I have always appreciated that from you, Asmodean, and am always happy to see other Mods do it as well! This sytem, and discussions such as this one, have really helped me get an idea of what I need to do in order to get more +QPs...and how to avoid -QPs too.
Thanks again!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 09, 2005 08:58 PM |
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I hope that I haven't come across as wanted to 'fix' anything here. My feeling really isn't that there is a problem, but more that since lately I have had several questions about QP in the otherside, this poll presented a great opportunity to open a dialogue with everyone about them
I don't really think its something that needs overthinking, I just wanted a better idea of how to please most of the people most of the time. I understood coming into the 'mod-business' that pleasing all of the people all of the time wasn't going to happen.
I just find that there are different ways to look at it, so I'm kind of turning the star around and around to see it from every angle
On one hand we have some members that make excellent posts very consistantly - so we could star them all the time and it would become rather ridiculous very quickly, with some members having 100 QP. Then we turn it and look at it another way - if we don't QP those posts, we're not showing newer members the best example of quality
Also if we take the stance that we need less QP newer members might feel discouraged, or left out. I imagine that for a new member some of the discussions can be quite intimidating by both the length of the threads, and just the way that you can really feel that most of the posters know each other well - it can be hard to enter something like that. I think that QP could help newer members feel more confident in their posting, which would lead to them posting more.
I do believe in encouraging threads that explore a more personal side of ourselves. While I feel that you can learn a lot from a person's political views, and in those debates quite often a lot of who the person behind the monitor really is shows through - I also feel that threads like 'Imagine us all here together', 'Being Overweight', and 'Downhill Times' to name just a small few help us to get to know a lot about each other.
In the community I think its the connections we make and the bonds we have with one another that really keep HC together, so I am 100% behind that all the way
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 09, 2005 09:11 PM |
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Quote:
On one hand we have some members that make excellent posts very consistantly - so we could star them all the time and it would become rather ridiculous very quickly, with some members having 100 QP. Then we turn it and look at it another way - if we don't QP those posts, we're not showing newer members the best example of quality.
Maybe it could be possible to make it harder to get QPs if you already have quite a bunch of them? Like, not using the same system of evaluating posts made by (random example of quality poster) Consis, and the "newer" posters?
Quote:
Also if we take the stance that we need less QP newer members might feel discouraged, or left out. I imagine that for a new member some of the discussions can be quite intimidating by both the length of the threads, and just the way that you can really feel that most of the posters know each other well - it can be hard to enter something like that. I think that QP could help newer members feel more confident in their posting, which would lead to them posting more.
I couldn't agree more. I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted to express my agreement.
Quote:
I do believe in encouraging threads that explore a more personal side of ourselves. While I feel that you can learn a lot from a person's political views, and in those debates quite often a lot of who the person behind the monitor really is shows through - I also feel that threads like 'Imagine us all here together', 'Being Overweight', and 'Downhill Times' to name just a small few help us to get to know a lot about each other.
I don't read those kinds of threads, so I, for one, wouldn't know.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 09, 2005 09:36 PM |
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Quote:
Maybe it could be possible to make it harder to get QPs if you already have quite a bunch of them? Like, not using the same system of evaluating posts made by (random example of quality poster) Consis, and the "newer" posters?
To an extent I already do this - I just question if it's something people would think is unfair.
Since you use Consis as an example, I will too. Here is a member who consistantly spends a lot of time with his posts, he reads through every one almost studiously, if he doesn't understand something he either researches - or asks the questions he needs answered to fully understand what's been said. Then there's the length of time in writing those posts and of course adding the appropriate smilies, and then what is likely a few hours of edits... and he does it consistantly. I've also noticed that there is a lull in the Forum, he will go and research something new to try to start up a new conversation. So now, how is it fair not to give him more QP for all of that? Plus - its a great example for new members, and might appear confusing to them to see some posts with no stars.
In his example though, we have spoken and have an understanding - which is very cool. But there are quite a few members that post in much the same manner too that I haven't talked to or heard from about this, he was just an an example of the type of posting that might qualify as 'effort'.
My main concern would be that if they see other posts being rewarded, and theirs not - they may feel its not worth the effort.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 09, 2005 09:42 PM |
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Quote:
My main concern would be that if they see other posts being rewarded, and theirs not - they may feel its not worth the effort.
An excellent point. So it seems that some form of balance needs to be found, which imo we members cannot help to find (at least not by suggesting where it should be, but rather by responding to the balance, when we se it "in play"), since it's after all you Mods who're going to operate inside this "balance", and so if it wasn't you who found it, it'd probably be somewhat artificial...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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