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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 01:35 PM |
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Edited by tb5841 at 13:37, 14 Apr 2008.
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I can only find 2 creatures of the same tier with more defence than a Vampire Lord (Archmage and Battle Griffin), and only 2 with more hit points. So with a Necromancer's high defence, and high chance of having Dark Magic (which is mainly about weakening enemy troops), along with Life Drain/No Enemy Retaliation, there are few units with as much survivability as a Vampire Lord.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 01:53 PM |
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Do you actually play this game, or just check the stats of creatures?
Even going by the stats: something like 67% survivability against 100 damage/10 att is very mediocre. Durable units start from 80%.
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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 02:05 PM |
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Vampire Lords aren't a unit based around soaking up damage, they are meant to be a good all-round unit. And as such, they are extremely durable. Obviously compared to something like a Treant they are not, but they are not meant to be that kind of creature.
Where do you get 67% from? Compared to most units in the game, they survive fairly well, in my experience. I just can't see any justification for the 'poor survivability' tag whatsoever.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2008 02:29 PM |
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No need for numbers I've played some games with all factions and it shows. In any case Doomforge had made a thread about it to measure survivability in numbers.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 14, 2008 02:38 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 14:42, 14 Apr 2008.
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You need HUGE numbers of Vampires so they can dish enough damage to compensate for their losses. The No Retaliation thing is their best asset since it will help against every foe (Vampires can be a bit crappy versus elementals or the undead). Still you can boost Life Drain with Vampirism.
Don't expect wonders in huge fights though. Once the Vampire stack is reduced in numbers it won't be able to raise many dead Vampires in the stack.
IMO Vampires in low numbers are useless.
By the way, I don't get why some people are so in love with Skeleton Warriors... I never use them except in very low numbers to protect my Skeleton Archers and nearby troops from ranged attacks. Skeleton Archers commanded by a hero with the proper skills and artifacts can be deadly.
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 14, 2008 03:11 PM |
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All true.
Unfortunately skeleton archers -can't- be deadly. I'm very disapointed by them since (like I wrote before) even horde of them (350) wasn't able to kill one dragon and my hero wasn't weak (attack 16)
Lategame, I prefer skelly warriors since then.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2008 03:18 PM |
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If you had archery and battle frenzy it would have been a little different. In any case I use them more to weaken enemy ranged stacks and will shoot others when they are in close range.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 14, 2008 03:40 PM |
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350 Skeleton Archers is really not a lot (except if you're playing a very short game). In early creeping all a Necro needs is 100 Skeleton Archers, an Ammo Cart and a few Ghosts to prevent the Skeletons from being blocked.
Like Elvin posted Archery + Battle Frenzy will make them more effective. Add the Necklace of the Bloody Claw and the Unicorn Horn Bow (if you're lucky) and that will definitely be a different story.
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blahbloke
Hired Hero
This kid is a mangossip
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posted April 14, 2008 11:04 PM |
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You know what, I was thinking the oppisite.
I thinks the necropills are over powered, specially in a rush battle.
basicly, u upgrade to expert necromancy, kill couple of creature (like genie), and turn it into tier 6 (like wight), then just rush ur enemy before they got to a high tier.
Even if in long term, the necromancy allows you to recruit so many creature in a week, like 34 vampires, which a lot.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 15, 2008 01:04 AM |
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Quote:
Do you actually play this game, or just check the stats of creatures?
Even going by the stats: something like 67% survivability against 100 damage/10 att is very mediocre. Durable units start from 80%.
What would you suggest to make them stonger?Increase it damage or attack?
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 15, 2008 08:21 AM |
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Edited by zamrai at 08:23, 15 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
I thinks the necropills are over powered, specially in a rush battle.
Oh man, if you think that necro is overpowered now, so what would you tell about necro in previous heroes especially 2 and 3. Actually, h5 necro is the weakest necro in hom&m history cuz his best trump which is raising dead was seriously decreased by this dark energy. And creatures are weaker (e.g. compare h5 vampires to any previous)
Quote:
Even if in long term, the necromancy allows you to recruit so many creature in a week, like 34 vampires, which a lot.
Yeah, hypothetically. But not in early-mid game. Lategame 34 vampires won't make any difference especially against meteor shower casted by warlock with 20-30 spellpower. Week by week necro is at disadvantage in comparision to others - when in h3, h2 and maybe h4 (I didn't play much h4) that was directly the opposite.
Necro overpowered? Not anymore.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 08:29 AM |
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Quote:
You know what, I was thinking the oppisite.
I thinks the necropills are over powered, specially in a rush battle.
basicly, u upgrade to expert necromancy, kill couple of creature (like genie), and turn it into tier 6 (like wight), then just rush ur enemy before they got to a high tier.
Even if in long term, the necromancy allows you to recruit so many creature in a week, like 34 vampires, which a lot.
34 vampires.. which week? eight?
with your basic 200 DE, you can recruit like 7 vampires and 4 unupgraded liches in first week... sooooo overpowered, yeaaa...  and two wights. Oh my!
I'd like to see someone who would lose to two extra wights 
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 15, 2008 12:41 PM |
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The strength of the Necropolis resides in one building: the Shrine of the Netherworld.
Get as many Creature Dwellings as possible, recruit troops that want to join, convert them. In large maps getting a Stronghold town is a dream (plenty of extra creatures just waiting to be converted).
If you manage that you will have the largest army with troops that can't be controlled by the enemy and then even the Big Bad Warlock and the scary Ranger won't be able to stop you.
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13 Heroes
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted April 15, 2008 02:22 PM |
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I played soon some games with necropolis against humans,inferno,silvan and diferent maps.
Conclusion:in rush with good spels(and undead building are not expensive) undead rullz
In late undead are easly defeated no mater how many creature u have,and i must admit i love this necromancy with dark energy points.
So i think is ok,the game is balanced.We cannot have a strong race which will ownage all in any condition.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 15, 2008 05:54 PM |
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Quote:
undead building are not expensive)
Once you get enough ore and mercury that is.
Quote:
In late undead are easly defeated no mater how many creature u have
"No matter how many creatures you have" is not correct. If you get one or two extra cities you can double or triple the size of your army. No other faction can do that.
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13 Heroes
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted April 15, 2008 09:22 PM |
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Edited by Plague at 21:27, 15 Apr 2008.
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i played smap and normal maps,but even big maps more castle,if i can have 2 more citeis,the enemy will have 2.And excuse my english.
And necromancer is a mag,he has powerspell to cast spel,to curse and damaging enemy.
And btw,in late against demons gating,no way to win.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 15, 2008 10:54 PM |
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Quote:
i played smap and normal maps,but even big maps more castle,if i can have 2 more citeis,the enemy will have 2.
If they are aligned fine but if they are not the enemy won't be able to mix all his troops.
Quote:
And necromancer is a mag,he has powerspell to cast spel,to curse and damaging enemy.
And btw,in late against demons gating,no way to win.
Dark Magic. Your troops are immune to Frenzy and PM your enemy's troops are not.
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13 Heroes
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 16, 2008 12:10 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you actually play this game, or just check the stats of creatures?
Even going by the stats: something like 67% survivability against 100 damage/10 att is very mediocre. Durable units start from 80%.
What would you suggest to make them stonger?Increase it damage or attack?
Thanks everybody for the right answer.I got it myself but than why write here?
At my pmod I balanced most things I thought they were wrong.My vampires got from 6 to 8 damage to 11 and 13 and VL to 14 and 19 damage.My Spectral dragon and GH dragon dwelling is at low cost,
GH got incoporeal with health 140 and defense 26 and spectrals got crippling would and fear attack.Increased the speed of zombies to +1
and some others.
Badly I can not figure out how to increase the pool of DE points.
Any idea?
Thanks in response
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted April 16, 2008 12:16 PM |
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Only one know i am sure about dark energy point increasement.One pilar of bone that u have mean 250 Dark energy points.Look to the site to skils to necromancy.There you will see all.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted April 16, 2008 12:18 PM |
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And btw cleave.U right they have imune to almost dark magic spell,but you cannot fight against noumber.With gating he almost double his noumber,and the demons have a good atack.Humans have a good atack and defence.Elves have a good defence.etc.And dont forget,undead have the worst creature lvl 6 and lvl 7.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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