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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted April 08, 2008 05:37 PM |
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I mean... now the main problem for me is that... when you have a Necromancer, when youīre going to catch "Leadership"?? Even you can also take Empathy!! 
In Heroes III this didnīt happen, they had necromancy and the rest of the people had leadership... but now, we have the orcs, with shout instead of sorcery, and 4 habilities, one for each kind of spellīs class. Why they donīt do anything similar for Necromancers?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 08, 2008 05:45 PM |
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I don't see why they would do that. Necromancers are spellcasters like the rest.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted April 08, 2008 06:08 PM |
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I tried to say that there is something that should be done with the hability "Leadership" in Necromancers, as they did with the orcs and their (no-)magic.
Even now, Leadership and Herald of Death are requirements for Haunted Mines, a very useful hability. Why?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 08, 2008 06:37 PM |
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Because it was overpowering in some maps. Easy to gather many ghosts, of course I'd rather it was not tied to leadership..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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arxur
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 08, 2008 08:51 PM |
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I think Selu is right.
If Orcs can weaken magic, necromancers could have an anti-leadership skill which decreases the morale of all enemy creatures by -1/-2/-3. That would be useful. 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2008 09:33 PM |
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is there any way to mod it?
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 08, 2008 09:46 PM |
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Quote:
necromancers could have an anti-leadership skill which decreases the morale of all enemy creatures by -1/-2/-3.
That's really good idea! I like it so much.
If I remember corectly - in h3 necro army could have morale set only on 0 value. It could leave like this in h5 and this awesome skill you have just mentioned decreasing morale and maybe some perks to that like decreasing luck etc.
Generally I think that necro should have luck and leadership on 0 but be able to decrease the enemy's. Add this to next fan's wishes list 
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HEBPEME
Hired Hero
I have TotE now!
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posted April 09, 2008 10:58 AM |
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That idea is not bad at all!
I like the idea of counter-leadership and stuff.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 09, 2008 12:03 PM |
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Back in HoF I was against it but since then the cap for leadership went to 10. Even with banshees and banshee howl the opponent can have 5 morale which is ridiculous.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted April 09, 2008 03:08 PM |
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Well....... Necropolis got some condition needed to start the bloodbath to a extreme level:
*Maxed luck
*Start close to ALOT of living units, will end up with alot of undeads
*80+ vamps is a force to be recon, upgradeing is just a uber asset in a siege.
And well...... revive the dead is cheap....... during battle if you got the mana.........
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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted April 09, 2008 08:14 PM |
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Edited by SeLu87 at 20:18, 09 Apr 2008.
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Anyway, unless you want to create the perfect faction, there are always things that you dislike about your favourite castle. Necropolis has creatures of levels 6 & 7 very weaks, but in my opinion, creatures of level 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are the best or nearly the best in their levels. The new skeletons & the old zombies, ghosts, vampires and lich are the main force of a necro army. If now you add something similar as a Undead Thane, Arbor or Titan, it would be imbalanced.
You now add that this faction almost never ends neutrals combat with any creature lost, they have infinite mana with the mark of the necromancer (except against inferno & imps) and even, their heroes always begin with raise the undead.
I also say, as I say before, that there is something that should be done with their hability leadership, considering that the main necro problem is not being affected by positive moral. The idea of reducing -1/-2/-3 moral, as arxur said before, and one or two habilities specifics, should be enough, for giving necro another way to win battles.
PD: Sorry about my english 
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 14, 2008 08:30 AM |
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Edited by zamrai at 09:03, 14 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are the best or nearly the best in their levels.
I have got another opinion here. If necro creatures were the best at their level it would be imbalanaced with necro efficent raise dead and mass curses. They are very weak and unfortunately it must be this way.
Yesterday, I had ~350 skeleton archers and even with hero bonus to attack (16) they do so tiny damage that it isn't even funy. All they do is die fast. I wouln't even bother to raise them from dead.
But from the other hand zombies are very strong at defense. And cheap. Perfect tanks but this is all they can do. Until taken down by meteor shower.
Ghost are quite good, they manage to evade attack quite often but first thing that magic hero do is killing them by spell. Fighting them with creatures is stupid.
Vampires are weak. The only thing that can make them quite powerful is hero Lucretia.
Liches. A lot of them are quite powerful but they are big and this is the worst thing for shooting unit. They die to fast for a 5 tier creature.
The only factor that makes this bunch of weaklings useful is hero and strategy. That's why playing necro is difficult. Somebody here has already said that sb can be good h5 player but weak necro player. Agree.
Quote:
The new skeletons & the old zombies, ghosts, vampires and lich are the main force of a necro army.
Yes, they are. Because there is no other creatures. Necro's tier 6 and 7 is a joke.
BTW: Sorcery -> distract works perfect against magic heroes. Try it, now I think this is the only way to fight against dungeon. Since warlock has irresistible magic the only thing we can do about it is making him cast his spells less often.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 10:55 AM |
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Good post, zamrai.
I don't agree that all necro creatures are junk, though. Skeleton warriors and wrights are ok. The former have good stats and excellent perks, the latter are the only reliable damage dealers in the army. The poltergeists aren't too bad either.
I'm not particularly fond of the rest.
And about warlock, huge amount of mana and counterspell paired with distract and swift mind is an ok strategy.
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tb5841
Hired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 11:14 AM |
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How does Herald of Death work with the alternative upgrades in TotE? Do you get to choose upgrades, like with Necromancy?
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 14, 2008 11:29 AM |
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Edited by zamrai at 11:38, 14 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Skeleton warriors and wrights are ok. The former have good stats and excellent perks, the latter are the only reliable damage dealers in the army.
Yes, I forgot about them. My 350 skeleton archers couldn't even shoot from distance one dragon what is ridiculous. They are good for early creeping, later I would upgrade them to warriors.
2nd day 1st week I always do this thing:
recruit archers and one warrior standing next to them. That gives my shooters 50% less damage against shooting creatures. Very useful at first week when we must rely on archers.
Quote:
And about warlock, huge amount of mana and counterspell paired with distract and swift mind is an ok strategy.
Unfortunately, it's impossible to have counterspell and distract at the same time but that would be nice
I would rely on counterspell and swift mind playing larger maps and distract on medium. The bigger army, the more mana necro can regain through MoTN - having over 100 and reciving about 20 per round from MoTN is good for counterspelling, I think. Having less mana the only way is distract i'm afraid.
Quote:
How does Herald of Death work with the alternative upgrades in TotE? Do you get to choose upgrades, like with Necromancy?
I didn't test it yet but i'm curious too. Though I don't take leadership for my hero - prefer full development of dark magic and sorcery, maybe summoning too. Later in queue I see attack/defence. But going for leadership and haunted mines it's also good idea.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 11:33 AM |
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Oh, true. I never bothered getting distract so I didn't even know what the pre requisites are 
On smaller maps CoTN and a quickly rushed dragon utopia for artifacts knocks warlocks out of their boots.
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 14, 2008 11:45 AM |
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Quote:
On smaller maps CoTN and a quickly rushed dragon utopia for artifacts knocks warlocks out of their boots.
I love taking dragon utopias with summoned pheonix and only 30 zombies. Expert summoning magic with phoenix and all dragon utopias are yours within 3 weeks with no loss
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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted April 14, 2008 12:15 PM |
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Quote:
Yesterday, I had ~350 skeleton archers and even with hero bonus to attack (16) they do so tiny damage that it isn't even funy. All they do is die fast. I wouln't even bother to raise them from dead.
Upgrade them to skeleton warriors. Theyīre so cheap, and the large shield and magic proof (i think it was at least 25%) makes them much better than the archers. Also you have the hit that reduces enemy initiative.
Quote:
But from the other hand zombies are very strong at defense. And cheap. Perfect tanks but this is all they can do. Until taken down by meteor shower.
Yes, they are. They enrage and they have the weakening strike. Not bad for a tier 2 creature.
Quote:
Ghost are quite good, they manage to evade attack quite often but first thing that magic hero do is killing them by spell. Fighting them with creatures is stupid.
Thatīs why at the beginning of the battle, lichs and vampires would not suffer spells. You always could attack with them to sprites, mages, runemages, priest, etc. Their mana drain is so useful.
Quote:
Vampires are weak. The only thing that can make them quite powerful is hero Lucretia.
Weak? I donīt think so. Theyīre a tier 4 creature, and they donīt receive retaliation, they drain life, and they teleport. Oh man, obviously they canīt get stronger, for me, the best creature of his level (considering also price). Making them stronger would make something as the Heroes IV vampire.
Quote:
Liches. A lot of them are quite powerful but they are big and this is the worst thing for shooting unit. They die to fast for a 5 tier creature.
Yes. Maybe they should dress less to go to battle On the other hand the death cloud and their spells (all of them very useful) helps necro player so much.
Quote:
The only factor that makes this bunch of weaklings useful is hero and strategy. That's why playing necro is difficult. Somebody here has already said that sb can be good h5 player but weak necro player. Agree.
Depends. All factions requires skills, but Iīve seen many necro players who are also very good playing dungeon, or other factions. And vice versa.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 12:22 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, they are. They enrage and they have the weakening strike. Not bad for a tier 2 creature.
Compared to stuff like dancers, they are rubbish.
Quote:
Weak? I donīt think so. Theyīre a tier 4 creature, and they donīt receive retaliation, they drain life, and they teleport. Oh man, obviously they canīt get stronger, for me, the best creature of his level (considering also price). Making them stronger would make something as the Heroes IV vampire.
I will never understand the vampire admiration in h5. This unit is rather pitiful: Very poor damage, poor survivability. It doesn't do a sh*t and it dies extremely fast. Life drain does not help since you lose like 80% of them after being hit by a hard hitter. Furthermore, necromancers don't have the stats and perks to support those creatures, and their pitiful access to light magic does not make it better. Vampires suck.
Quote:
Yes. Maybe they should dress less to go to battle On the other hand the death cloud and their spells (all of them very useful) helps necro player so much.
They get blocked in the first turn, making their offensive power go down to zero. They are only useful as midgame decay casters.
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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted April 14, 2008 12:46 PM |
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With necro, youīll always carry to battle more creatures of level 1,2,3,4 and 5 than your opponent. Making them more powerful... Donīt think itīs a good idea. Also consider that dancers cost 50% more gold than zombies (if you recruit them, you can also raise them), and if you donīt have a huge amount of gold, the price of creatures should be considered too. The new wardancers are, for me, the best in their level, with tier 2 dungeon creature. But theyīre expensive.
I think that first, should be done something with necro tier 6 and 7 creatures... they stink, and I still donīt understand why the Death Knights have not been incorpored to the Necropolis. Theyīre much more carismatic.
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