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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 12:11 AM |
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Amen!!!
I totally agree with "K." Also, if you try to gate, I'll block the portal with my own units. I do not fear destructive magic (meteor storm, etc) from Inferno creatures. They won't have the Spell Power to even put a dent in my army. Even if you do manage to get near my skeleton archers, you're going to eat a full-damage shot from my liches, and nobody wants to do that.
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well I think it about time we closed the book on this thread, since it all comes back to the same whining over and over again.
From experience I can tell you there is no way that Nival is going to do such a massive change as your stating aliciblades, that falls under the heading of wishful thinking.
the deficincy is the lack of knowledge on how to play necro, the apperance of a 1 creep rules all faction, lack of different tactics in MP unless you really know how to exploit the map and study all the heroes the same way do would do any other faction.
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Nival is not going to re-balance an entire facton (factionS most likely, as Necro is skelly dependant)to make Necro more 'balanced.' I already and have always known the power of Necro, which is why I have always thought this topic a joke.
I do play other factions, and no other faction can match the end-game strength of the Necro. The only faction, in my experience, that can come close is Sylvan because of their own ranged units and high probability of luck (Master Hunter / Druid combo is brutal). The unit that does the best is the Titan, because it is the only lv 7 unit that can do massive damage and remain outside of the "broken-arrow" range of the Skeleton Archers. Dragons will eventually take full-damage because they do melee damage.
As I continue on my self-proclaimed Necro PWNAGEtopic, I have to admit that Cold Steel is a better ability than at first thought. In my experience, you do more bonus damage with higher level units than lower. With a stack of 9 Spec Dragons, I was getting 70-200 extra damage, while my stack of 1.5K Skeleton Archers were doing 20-50 extra damage. That ability more than makes up for the so-called low damage potential of high lv Necro Units.
I have not found a solution for the low HPs...
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 12:31 AM |
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As I continue on my self-proclaimed Necro PWNAGEtopic, I have to admit that Cold Steel is a better ability than at first thought. In my experience, you do more bonus damage with higher level units than lower. With a stack of 9 Spec Dragons, I was getting 70-200 extra damage, while my stack of 1.5K Skeleton Archers were doing 20-50 extra damage. That ability more than makes up for the so-called low damage potential of high lv Necro Units.
I have not found a solution for the low HPs...
My god if that is true then my heart is full of joy! I mean if Cold Steel is usefull after all. And at the same time shifts the "weight" from skeletons, I mean WOW.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 01:41 AM |
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Allow me to confirm that chilling bones is still worthless. If it worked like Fire Shield, it would have potential. Oh well.
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chpr
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 12:41 AM |
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the best end game is academy, for their artifacts = free +2 luck/morale. this is the real imba in the game, but it can be met so late in the game, that practically it is never done.
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Plemenit
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 01:22 PM |
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You mean an ALLSTARS player because DOTA has always been balanced.
No, I mean Dota-Allstars which abbreviation is: DotA.
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I am starting to detect hypocrisy among the heroes community. HIV was "booed" because there was so much innovation, and [most] players wanted a more HIII feel to it. We recieved that (minus any AI whatsoever) and now, everyone is crying nostalgia again, saying to bring back old creature abilities and features in general. People want their cake AND their icecream.
Hmmphh.. it's not about bringing back old things- I want NEW things; new creature abilities becouse this is a NEW game. I want lots of variety.
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Necro is not the only castle in the game where the un-upgraded versions of the creatures do not have any (supder-D-duper)abilities. This is why I say that these suggestions are fanboyism. Why are you even trying to make an argument for basic creatures? What end-game battle have you ever participated in when the person with few upgrades won? Again, I say that every creature except for skeletons have a special ability.
Hey.. this game is not only about "end-battles". I want to enjoy unupgraded creatures' special abilities when I'm, for instance, fighting against neutral stacks of unupgraded creatures.. I want to enjoy and fear fighting against a pack of Wights becouse they have some nice (passive) abilities. Now, they're just empty hitters with beautiful animation.
I know you don't understand and don't care about the flavour of creativity and variety since you're vaccined against imagination.
Repeat this:
Age of Wonders Dread Reaper (Wight/Wraith) special abilities: Walking, Floating, Strike, Undead, Death Strike, Magic Strike, Cause Fear, Life Stealing, Energy Drain, Physical Protection, Path of Decay, True Seeing, Shadow Walker, Willpower, Pass Wall, UNHOLY CHAMPION.
Does this ring a bell for you? That's called creativity and imagination..
Again, I care for abilities of unupgraded creatures also. Therefore, skeletons are by far NOT the only unit without any (passive) abilities.
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im talking about "first strike" and "chaos strike". On a creature as powerful as a wraith, first strike essentially allows you to take a big bite out of the other stack before they even do damage maybe even completely destroy the other stack if it is a low level stack. A special like this would pretty much force the opponent to rethink their entire battle tactics when fighting against wraiths forcing them to use magic only or creatures with no retaliation special. Then on top of that if a wraith attacks a stack that stack might retaliate against its own faction. Thats essentially casting frenzy on any stack effected by wraiths. One of the BEST dark magic spell available will be cast on creatures effected by wraiths......a little too powerful you think!?
First strike- useful once per turn and since wights/wraiths don't have an outstanding initiative it would not kick in very often. And yes, it WOULD negate no retaliation and would always nullify the bonus from charge/jousting.
Also, you must have in mind that retaliation damage is not that high.
You're saying that the opponent will have to rethink their entire battle tactics- that's actually a good thing becouse this is a strategy game and flexible players will have an advantage. (E.g., you'll have to waste W/W first strike with a durable unit or with an almost dead stack)
Chaos strike- you have to take into consideration that all depends on the position/constellation of creatures around the attacked unit and the level of that unit. Thus, you'll have to strategize wisely. There is less than 50% chance for chaos strike to kick in- and even then it's not certain that the attaked unit will retaliate against its ally.
Remember that everything can be balanced and even stats can be traded for new abilities if needed.
(I'm not payed to balance ability percentages; I just wrote my suggestions for free- it's Nival job to balance them)
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Tarflin
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 02:06 PM |
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The Necropolis would be insanely weak except for Necromancy itself.
I think Bone Dragons are absolutely pathetic, they are barely as powerful as most lvl 6 creatures. What really lets them down is not just there pathetic damage and the fact that they have no special but also their extremely low speed.
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 06:56 PM |
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The Necropolis would be insanely weak except for Necromancy itself.
I think Bone Dragons are absolutely pathetic, they are barely as powerful as most lvl 6 creatures. What really lets them down is not just there pathetic damage and the fact that they have no special but also their extremely low speed.
Bone dragons have several specials... undead, large creature, flyer.
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Plemenit
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 08:34 PM |
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Bone dragons have several specials... undead, large creature, flyer.
You were sarcastic, weren't you?
Large creature- so unique and so useful.. 
Undead- soo unique ..
Flyer- soo unique and soo fantastic..
See this:
AoW Dread Reaper special abilities: Walking, Floating, Strike, Undead, Death Strike, Magic Strike, Cause Fear, Life Stealing, Energy Drain, Physical Protection, Path of Decay, True Seeing, Shadow Walker, Willpower, Pass Wall, Unholy Champion.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 09:12 PM |
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*Edit includes equation correction*
Well, go play Age of Wonders then. Don't come on a Heroes of Might and Magic board talking about another game. I hate when people do that ****. Take your "well in game 'X' they do 'Y' so why can't game 'Z' do the same thing?" crap elsewhere; game "X" does not do what game "Z" does because it is game "X," not "Z."
And as far as Bone Dragons are concerned, being a large, flying, undead creature is fantastic! Since he is large, he can prevent multi-hex attacks as well as be a blocker. Flight is essential to the mobility of being a lv 7 creature. Could you imagine how much more terrible the Bone Dragon would be without flight? And I don't have to tell you how important mind immunity is to undead creatures. If people could cast confusion on Skeleton Archers, they would not be such a pain.
I hope you don't call yourself a Necro player.
By the way, I'm in an Allstars clan, and DOTA: All-Stars is indeed called ALLSTARS. "DOTA" is the old version of the game from ROC, while Allstars refers to the TFT expansion version.
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phoenixzs
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 11:34 AM |
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And as far as Bone Dragons are concerned, being a large, flying, undead creature is fantastic! Since he is large, he can prevent multi-hex attacks as well as be a blocker. Flight is essential to the mobility of being a lv 7 creature. Could you imagine how much more terrible the Bone Dragon would be without flight? And I don't have to tell you how important mind immunity is to undead creatures. If people could cast confusion on Skeleton Archers, they would not be such a pain.
I hope you don't call yourself a Necro player.
By the way, I'm in an Allstars clan, and DOTA: All-Stars is indeed called ALLSTARS. "DOTA" is the old version of the game from ROC, while Allstars refers to the TFT expansion version.
Sorry but nearly all last levels have the ability to teleport/fly(/except titan which doesnt need it) and are large creatures.Plus being undead is not equal to being mind immune you also have to deal with neutral morale.So it comes to this; where is the counterpart skill of firbreathing,summoning pitlords,resurrection ability in our bonedragon; cursing attack?please...
And please dont call the garbage ideas out of garbage can like "they are weak but numerous and cheap" since they are not.They are simply the same overall creature strenght weekly but rather than not divided by 2 but by 3.Also we pay more mercury(6) to them like nobody pays.
And last some say that the necro has the advantage of "not building" the last level;wtf? the only reason for it is that they are awfully bad,what are you guys poliyanas or pure optimists or something?Clearly not being able to use a 7th level(the ultimate powerfull creature)because its crap ÝS a disadvantage.All other factions could also skip building last levels and have a strategy built on it.So its true for every faction and no advatange for necro.Its just a simple tactic.
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chpr
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 02:34 PM |
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Edited by chpr at 14:35, 18 Jul 2006.
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just one remark, lets talk about bone dragons, giants, angels not for their upgraded versions... I may agree that SOMEHOW you may survive after building your 7lvl creature and losing more than a weekly population... but if u go to upgrade it, u will lose the game 100%! Compared to other not upgraded 7 lvl, bones are not that crappy, az spectrals compared to the other upgraded, however they are just not worth the money!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 18, 2006 04:33 PM |
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Take your "well in game 'X' they do 'Y' so why can't game 'Z' do the same thing?" crap elsewhere; game "X" does not do what game "Z" does because it is game "Z," not "X."
Actually, game X is game X, and not game Z, and therefore what you write above is wrong, because the reason why game X will not do what game Z does is not that game X is game Z but rather that game X is game X and not game Z (which would probably be game Z, and would probably also not do what game X does).
Which leaves game Y all alone and sad in the corner because nobody wants to play with it.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 06:05 PM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 18:06, 18 Jul 2006.
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You're wrong in this matter alcibiades.
The Y was a thing that game X does, and Z doesn't, but people want Z to have Y, which is in game X, which would make game Z to become X.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 18, 2006 11:50 PM |
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Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. But wouldn't it make more sense if game Y did Y and game X did X and then game Z didn't do either because Z was Z and neither X nor Y?
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2006 01:41 AM |
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I figured out what he really meant:
27(X - Y)*0.5(Z + 2/3(Y - Z)^5) - X^9 + 0.25Z(Z - 3.14X)(Y/(2/3X - Z) + X/(Z - Y)) > Z
Wow I'm a genius
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2006 05:04 AM |
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In response to the last four posts
Thanks for the correction.
All I was trying to say was Age of Wonders is not Heroes of Might and Magic, and vice versa. I would not expect Age of Empires to play like Command & Conquer or Warcraft III, either. I expect every game to be unique.
Yeah, every lv 7 creature is large, but every lv 7's size is not used the same. I'll be using my Bone Dragons more as meat shields than offensive units due to their low HP (that or sacrifices to stand next to enemy ranged units, sans the Inquisitor with all that full-melee damage).
Undead gives you mind immunity to all creatures in the faction, neutral morale, and effective usage of the all-powerful Raise Dead spell. You forgot that one. 
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Plemenit
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 31, 2006 04:42 AM |
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Edited by Plemenit at 04:46, 31 Jul 2006.
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Eh, I delayed the answer becouse it's not a good thing to feed a troll often.
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Well, go play Age of Wonders then. Don't come on a Heroes of Might and Magic board talking about another game. I hate when people do that ****. Take your "well in game 'X' they do 'Y' so why can't game 'Z' do the same thing?" crap elsewhere; game "X" does not do what game "Z" does because it is game "X," not "Z."
I undertand that you can't understand that people should compare games in order to judge their quality. Even better, by comparing somewhat similar strategy games.
So, if game X has some bad elements- why can't this game learn/accept something from game Z to improve itself?
Again, I'm not saying game X should copy game Z, it's just a matter of inspiration. There's some obvious lack of creativity in game V, and I want that to be changed.
If you have some kind of change-phobia, that's your problem.
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And as far as Bone Dragons are concerned, being a large, flying, undead creature is fantastic! Since he is large, he can prevent multi-hex attacks as well as be a blocker. Flight is essential to the mobility of being a lv 7 creature. Could you imagine how much more terrible the Bone Dragon would be without flight? And I don't have to tell you how important mind immunity is to undead creatures. If people could cast confusion on Skeleton Archers, they would not be such a pain.
What's innovative in the "undead, large, flyer" part? Boring.. old stuff, I want something new. So many creatures are large, flying or undead in HoMM V and other HoMM's. But that's beyond your comprehension capacities..
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I hope you don't call yourself a Necro player.
I play all factions, sweetie.
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By the way, I'm in an Allstars clan, and DOTA: All-Stars is indeed called ALLSTARS. "DOTA" is the old version of the game from ROC, while Allstars refers to the TFT expansion version.
Noob, here's the link to the official site: www.dota-allstars.com
Have a nice summer and don't bother me too often.
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diplomacy4you
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 23, 2006 07:15 AM |
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I don't see how you can back up your statement but i'll go ahead and make it easier for you. I'm willing to face you and wager that Necropolis will only be effective against Haven.
Here's what would happen in a potential situation:
*Inferno will steal all of your mana with their imps so that you are left with being able to cast 1-2 spells before you run out. The gating will obviously come into play and you'll find that the Balor's fireball/meteor shower attack is quite powerful (especially when there are twice as many balors with the Archdevils able to summon reinforcements)
*Dungeon will take out the most of the dragons or wraiths with the lizard charge on the first turn, then blast the liches with matriarchs and other shooters...and do a steady stream of Meteor showers to finish off the process.
*Tower will pummel you with enless magical attacks...and will sit pretty with their solid Triple G defense (golem, gargoyle, gremlin).
*Sylvan is not even worth mentioning because this battle would last all of 5 min. The decay spell would be ineffective as i've mentioned before because it would be resisted and the archers would deal you sweet sweet death.
*The Haven is the castle able to potentialy to the Necros. The paladin will start out and destroy 1 of your stacks (vamps, wraiths, or dragons). Then you'll try and kill it, taking out some but the angel will resurrect...and that would be alright except there are also the griffin that enjoy a nice little battle dive on you liches. All in all it's quite tough to be that sort of line up.
So I've just riffled off a few ways of how Necropolis can be taken down and destroyed. Believe me that I would be unable to devise any time of similar strategy the other way around. It is simply too difficult for the Necropolis to win (Too slow...too weak).
Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite castle (especially in H3) and I will defend and support it when it the final game comes out, but don't argue with me when I say it's too weak. Because you'll win maybe 1 out of every 10 games.
I totally disagree. While Necropolis does have a lot of weak creatures, they are still serviceable. Vampires are still powerful. The ghost's incorporability makes them a pain to kill. Liches are great ranged attackers, especially when the enemy is clumped together. While the dragons and wights aren't great, they do have decent statistics. But the main thing that helps with the necromancers is both their ability to raise skeletons and their eternal servitude skill. At the end of the game, you will still have most of your creatures intact plus several thousand skeleton archers. While skeleton archers are pretty weak, there are several steps that can be taken to improve them. First, get expert attack and battle frenzy. Battle frenzy adds one to both the minimum and maximum damage of all the creatures in the army. With this skill, the archers do 2-3 damage. Multiply that by at least 1k and you have an incredibly powerful force.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2006 07:48 AM |
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Edited by Homer171 at 08:32, 24 Dec 2006.
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It was good that they gave Raise Dead to every Necromancer but making Vladimir so useless made Necropolis weaker. Well now there are better heroes than Vladimir.
Skeleton Archers are allways nice but often enemy can crush them pretty easily. In large or XL maps the amount of skellies might be enough to take out enemies whit Skellies easily.
Shrine of the Netherworld is also very good building on Necropolis. Sometimes you get enemy town what is not the same race as your are. Just bring those populations to your town and then turn them to undeads.
Converting creatures like Unicors to Liches is just great or even better those ceap Djinns! Also dwelling creatures can be turned in your town and that a bonus.
I open the Expansion pack tommorow and i hope to see the new Caravan system in action. If it works like i hope the best advantage of this will get the Necropolis town! Turn into undeads is coming. What about Brawlers to Vampires? Mwhahaha For few dollars and more
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SS
Known Hero
Strike first, Strike Hard
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posted December 24, 2006 08:39 AM |
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In the this link it explains what makes up for the weak creaturs of the Necropolis.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/necro_intro.shtml
it says basicly Quantity makes up for the quality.
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