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Paxdominum
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2008 02:28 AM |
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Tell me, in what way has the Catholic Church founded by Christ been involved in keeping people in the dark for over a thousand years? That's just a common myth created by liberals and protestants.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 02:31 AM |
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A common myth, right... Then tell me why the Catholic Church is so reactionary? Why do they oppose human cloning for reproductive purposes?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Paxdominum
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2008 02:33 AM |
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Since it is inhuman and unnatural?
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 02:37 AM |
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If we did everything by "nature's way", we would be living in caves. Also, I wonder if you have any familiarity with the Bible at all. "It [the Earth] will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:18 and 3:19). It seems to me that God is advocating the use of agriculture to feed oneself. But isn't that unnatural? 
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Eccentric Opinion
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Paxdominum
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2008 02:41 AM |
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Quote:
It seems to me that God is advocating the use of agriculture to feed oneself. But isn't that unnatural?
Of course it isn't. Look this is not a matter of reading the bible and interpreting it in the way which suits us best. This is a matter of listening to the spiritual authority God has placed over us and following it's advices and it's rules.
"to be subject to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for every human being" -From Boniface VIII’s bull Unam sanctam
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 02:43 AM |
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Quote:
Look this is not a matter of reading the bible and interpreting it in the way which suits us best.
Unless you're the one doing it, of course.
Quote:
"to be subject to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for every human being" -From Boniface VIII’s bull Unam sanctam
"Obey me." - From Mvass's post in "I Gave up on Believing in God", August 13.
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Paxdominum
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2008 02:46 AM |
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Quote:
Unless you're the one doing it, of course.
No. I am a subject of Jesus Christ, His Holiness the Pontifex Maximus appointed by Christ and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church founded by Christ.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 02:53 AM |
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Okay, then he does it. But what makes his interpretation any better than mine? Ex Cathedra? I can say that everything I say is true as well, but that doesn't make it so.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Paxdominum
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2008 02:59 AM |
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"Everything" said by the pope doesn't have to be true.
You know about Peter, the first pope? Jesus said that he is holding teh keys to the kingdom of heaven:
Matthew 16:18-19:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Some explaining notes:
18 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
18 "Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.
18 "The gates of hell"... That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.
19 "Loose upon earth"... The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.
(Douay-Rheims Bible)
And the church was there at the time when the bible was complied, complied by catholic saints. The first Christians where hardly baptist. 
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 03:00 AM |
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So if I gave someone my house keys, it would give them magic powers? 
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Eccentric Opinion
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted August 14, 2008 06:20 AM |
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Quote:
If we did everything by "nature's way", we would be living in caves.
Not true. You must remember that before Christianity even existed that people did live in houses. Take the Romans or the Egyptians for examples. And it would be unnatural since that isn't the proper way that human beings are produced. That's my opinion anyway.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 14, 2008 07:46 AM |
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the christian god is a vindictive and spiteful control freak! look at what he did to Job, Eaten by a whale just because Job didn't want to do what God told him too. and remember that contest he had with satan where satan ended up taking everything away from that poor bloke and god did nothing! he is also two faced, taking care of the jews one minute, saving them from egypt, and then turning on them the next when they kill his son! and all this is from his PR book!
and as for how his followers have behaved, don't get me started on that!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted August 14, 2008 07:56 AM |
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What is "natural" and what is "unnatural"
Is it natural or unnatural to have great buildings carved out of stone?
The pyramids?
A spear?
Are only things done by natural causes "natural" or do the actions of creatures, such as a bird building a nest, natural? In that sense, anything a human does is natural, which makes the word redundant really.
Maybe it's a conflict between natural and artificial, in which case if you wish to ban things that are not natural you must ban things which are artificial. Then get off your computer
(I'm not talking specifically to anyone)
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John says to live above hell.
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Azagal
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Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 14, 2008 08:44 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Look this is not a matter of reading the bible and interpreting it in the way which suits us best.
Unless you're the one doing it, of course.
lol .
Oh and I agree with will that its wrong to say that living in caves would be natural.
Oh and someone give me a quick update please: ZJ was FF right? And Pax is ZJ right? He must be I dont know anyone who can use so many churchish words in one post oO. Eventhough I kind of miss his "God will smite youuuuu infideeeeeeeel" attitude.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 14, 2008 11:28 AM |
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Alaric has entered the room!!
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted August 14, 2008 11:58 AM |
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Quote:
Why do they oppose human cloning for reproductive purposes?
Can you tell me something? (now I'm not even talking about religion!)
Do you ask these questions and don't care about the answer? We discussed this so many times (in the other threads, like Stem Cell Research), and yet you STILL use your ORIGINAL question, which has been answered. Dude, AM I talking to the walls? 
You know something? You don't care about the answer, why should we answer anyway?
not to mention again, that my point wasn't even religious at all
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 14, 2008 12:04 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 12:04, 14 Aug 2008.
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A funny thing I've noticed.
None of the catholics that come to HC are over 15 years old.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2008 02:56 PM |
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William:
Quote:
Not true. You must remember that before Christianity even existed that people did live in houses.
Before Christianity, there waas Judaism. But if either group couldn't do anything except by "nature's way", they'd have to stop farming, hunting with any kinds of tools, and building shelters, since all of these things are unnatural.
TheDeath:
Quote:
Do you ask these questions and don't care about the answer? We discussed this so many times (in the other threads, like Stem Cell Research), and yet you STILL use your ORIGINAL question, which has been answered. Dude, AM I talking to the walls?
First, I'm not asking you, I'm asking Fortress_Jerusalem. I want to hear what he has to say. Second, I'm talking about cloning for reproductive purposes, a practice with which you did not say that you disagree. I didn't even mention stem-cell research. Third, if you want to get back into that topic, that's fine by me.
Baklava:
Yeah, now that you mention it.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 14, 2008 02:58 PM |
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I think you guys scared him away...
Anyways, anyone who calls himself peace can't be a bad guy IMO... But hey!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted August 14, 2008 03:20 PM |
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Quote:
I didn't even mention stem-cell research. Third, if you want to get back into that topic, that's fine by me.
Dude my post was to show precisely that the topic was pointless
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