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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 08:52 AM |
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The poll results certainly do not reflect the posts here. Can you say "lurking fanboyism"?
As for me, I didn't vote, nor will I. I have not played since I have finished the expansion campaign, waiting on Nival to fix the AI, so I don't know the answer to the question.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 10:10 AM |
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Quote:
Dungeon: All hopes are on your familiars + artifacts that provide magic resistance or magic protection. If you can leave their hero with little mana, guaranteed victory.
Well, a thinking dungeon player will go after the infernal hero with mediocre force and blow the familiars away, if they have been brought to the field. If not, he'll just blow nightmares, and run. easy 
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Academy: Here, your familiars can do nothing about their bottomless pit of mana. Dash all creatures at once and try to end combat asap. Wipe out Djinn Sultans, Archmages and Master Gremlins first.
Gremlins ain't a big threat. Don't forget to set excruciating strike on titans. Teleport assaulting pitlords at them works wonders, they will be gone in no time.
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Haven: I find this faction quite easy to handle. Champions are the only threat, destroy them asap. Marksmen are somewhat weak.
A smart haven player will go for dark magic against inferno, so after one mass suffering and weakness you're dead with no means to revert the huge ability damage. Not to mention the puppet master.
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Necropolis: Extremely difficult for me. Good spellpower to raise dead, tons of creatures, dangerous dark spells. Your best bet would be to hoard a lots of familiars. Otherwise, prepare for a tense battle.
Yeah, necropolis always used to be the inferno's nightmare, it's just all the darkmagic that inferno can't handle, nothing more.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 01:13 PM |
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I forgot one of izzachar's way to counter dungeon easily with little inferno units, yet it depends on luck (because it's hellfire vs destructive) and a little costly for surendering if hellfire doesn't trigger once.
Inferno is okay againts all factions except necro, yeah i agree that inferno is certainly goner againts this faction. Againts sylvan's wyngraal, inferno also has a little chance of victory, high defence is needed to win this battle.
Btw, isn't the topic about strongest faction?
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 03:00 PM |
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Edited by Sanyu at 15:01, 08 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
Well, a thinking dungeon player will go after the infernal hero with mediocre force and blow the familiars away, if they have been brought to the field. If not, he'll just blow nightmares, and run. easy
without artifacts at the start, how are you going to get all those mana needed to blast away familiars
@ChaosDragon
yea it is about strongest faction and i'm trying to convince people that inferno is one of the strongest faction.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 03:40 PM |
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huh? my warlocks never have mana problems. I reach 100 mana easily, 150-200 at end. You'd need 400 familiars to drain 100 mana, mind you.. how can you get so much of them? bah.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 08, 2007 04:07 PM |
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I don't know how you get that much mana, without Yrwanna's Intelligence though (I played with Kythra and Yrwanna lately, and mana was my problem, even with Yrwanna ).
now I like necro very much... (don't start with 'weaker in 2.1' cause it isn't!).. MotN is so accessible that is overpowered (and yes, that would require a nerf, and a boost in Bone Dragons + Wights, if not reduce the costs).
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 04:31 PM |
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But why nerf MoTN? Every faction has some creeping cheese (deleb, mmr etc).
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 08, 2007 04:34 PM |
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Then nerf the creeping cheese (and of course Deleb).
If everyone has abuses, taking out them for everyone will balance it out
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 04:52 PM |
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as long as every faction is imba, the game is balanced 
besides, what's wrong in fast creeping? You like to have lvl 3 hero on second week and level6 dwelling in 2nd month? 
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 05:16 PM |
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Quote:
@ChaosDragon
yea it is about strongest faction and i'm trying to convince people that inferno is one of the strongest faction.
There is only one way to convince me that inferno IS one of the best . Have very good ranking with it and defeat top TOH players. Till then, ill stick to my opion that inferno is worst one, and necro is right after.
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted April 09, 2007 12:36 AM |
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I was actually curious if Sanyu is a multiplayer or a single player. Alot of the posts I see as very doable, but most smart human players will have counter measures.
I'm also a big fan of inferno, but have been getting crushed by some really high ranked players lately while using them.
I've also beaten some high ranked players while I was using inferno.
But again I'll stress that inferno suffers much more from map conditions (ie Artifacts, neutrals, breaking out) than I find most other factions do. Which is why I feel they can't be the strongest faction. IN a perfect setup they are a nightmare to handle. In a good setup they are a strong opponent. But in a poor setup they get walked on. Other factions seem to have more "outs" then inferno does.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 10:48 AM |
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very nice points, Destro23! I agree completely! 
Care to make a solid inferno guide? I may try to re-check them a few times, perhaps we can gather together a bit of useful strategy tips in a proper topic for it.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 11:09 AM |
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For me situation Destro23 described in other topic speaks for itself.(the one that he got 32 attack 3 def ang got crushed by sylvan with ring of speed) Those kind of games beg for rebalance.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 11:28 AM |
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Edited by Sanyu at 12:00, 09 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
I was actually curious if Sanyu is a multiplayer or a single player.
Both multiplayer and single player. But more single player.
Anyway, is it reliable to think that all members on the forum with four five yellow stars and three four red stars are TOH players?
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 09, 2007 12:04 PM |
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Quote:
Anyway, is it reliable to think that all members on the forum with four five yellow stars and three four red stars are TOH players?
Definetely not.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 12:37 PM |
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nope, I have to play ToH yet, and I have the stars you mention ^_^
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 10:33 PM |
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Quote:
@ChaosDragon
yea it is about strongest faction and i'm trying to convince people that inferno is one of the strongest faction.
Yeah, they can be the strongest, but the way to reach that status almost only in a dream, i'm not againts inferno, they're my fave faction, i agree that their lineup and their heroes's perks are good, it can even tie with other strongest factions, both late game or early/mid game (assume there is no dark users or inferno has access to cleansing, only cleansing is enough), but in practice, the way to survive with them is the hardest, other factions are not that hard, it seems that inferno are only for those who want to think very hard (no deleb please).
Untill now, i still consider dwarf as the strongest, they're almost invincible to all factions in late game, maybe except necro that has banshee howl or inferno urgash call (but that's only a theory, because urgash and banshee are hard to get, it's also depends on luck).
Quote:
For me situation Destro23 described in other topic speaks for itself.(the one that he got 32 attack 3 def ang got crushed by sylvan with ring of speed) Those kind of games beg for rebalance.
That's not only inferno i think, other low def faction might get crushed easily, not to mention sylvan's great wyngraal at late game + light magic, with almost all of their unit stacks score critical hit + lucky strike, i can't imagine it (maybe only haven and fortress that can still fight, not sure about necro and academy, necro have high def and academy have mini arties that can stop wyngraal to act first, imho the other factions except those mentioned above won't stand a chance, even dungeon, but if they choose def over atk, they can stand a chance, although i'm not sure about this warlock thing). Most sylvan players that choose wyngraal always very offense oriented.
I admit that inferno seriously need rebalance.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2007 11:07 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
@ChaosDragon
yea it is about strongest faction and i'm trying to convince people that inferno is one of the strongest faction.
Yeah, they can be the strongest, but the way to reach that status almost only in a dream, i'm not againts inferno, they're my fave faction, i agree that their lineup and their heroes's perks are good, it can even tie with other strongest factions, both late game or early/mid game (assume there is no dark users or inferno has access to cleansing, only cleansing is enough), but in practice, the way to survive with them is the hardest, other factions are not that hard, it seems that inferno are only for those who want to think very hard (no deleb please).
Untill now, i still consider dwarf as the strongest, they're almost invincible to all factions in late game, maybe except necro that has banshee howl or inferno urgash call (but that's only a theory, because urgash and banshee are hard to get, it's also depends on luck).
Huh? Are you joking? While Fortress creatures can have incredibly high defense, their other stats like att and initiative are totally crappy, an average of 10 initiative is bad... this places them lowest along with Necropolis... runemage is too balanced that it becomes a problem. Its so-so spellpower and knowledge only means creatures like familiars can "slurp it all up" and dungeon heroes can laugh at their pathetic spells...not specialised in attack worsens the case as their creatures really need that few points of attack. Of course, I do agree that their creatures take ages to whittle down and guard thingy which adds a thousand or so shieldguards to their towns is quite strong.
Quote:
For me situation Destro23 described in other topic speaks for itself.(the one that he got 32 attack 3 def ang got crushed by sylvan with ring of speed) Those kind of games beg for rebalance.
That's not only inferno i think, other low def faction might get crushed easily, not to mention sylvan's great wyngraal at late game + light magic, with almost all of their unit stacks score critical hit + lucky strike, i can't imagine it (maybe only haven and fortress that can still fight, not sure about necro and academy, necro have high def and academy have mini arties that can stop wyngraal to act first, imho the other factions except those mentioned above won't stand a chance, even dungeon, but if they choose def over atk, they can stand a chance, although i'm not sure about this warlock thing). Most sylvan players that choose wyngraal always very offense oriented.
I admit that inferno seriously need rebalance.
Wyngaal is bugged, that's why he's so powerful. Inferno needs no rebalancing
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2007 01:18 PM |
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Quote:
Huh? Are you joking? While Fortress creatures can have incredibly high defense, their other stats like att and initiative are totally crappy, an average of 10 initiative is bad... this places them lowest along with Necropolis... runemage is too balanced that it becomes a problem. Its so-so spellpower and knowledge only means creatures like familiars can "slurp it all up" and dungeon heroes can laugh at their pathetic spells...not specialised in attack worsens the case as their creatures really need that few points of attack. Of course, I do agree that their creatures take ages to whittle down and guard thingy which adds a thousand or so shieldguards to their towns is quite strong.
Why dungeon laugh, it is fortress that will laugh, go for light, fortress is always better with light not destructive, and not to mention their imba runes, with a litte atk boosting arties, they are crazy, even havens with paladins are nothing. Try it, then you'll know. Many people think that fortress are weak because they never use it intensively.
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Wyngaal is bugged, that's why he's so powerful. Inferno needs no rebalancing
He's not bugged, it's his special, all his creatures will strike first except treants, it's okay if they don't score lucky atk or critical hit, worst if they score both, but wyngraal is late game hero, and at late game, his luck usually 3 or 5, not to mention his atk boosting arties and his another arties, wyngraal is one of pure offensive sylvan hero and he is one of sylvan's best hero, even ossir is second to him at late game. Try sylvan and you'll know, if you like inferno, then your most fave hero will be wyngraal, his gameplay at battlefield is similar with inferno, except he is with light magic and have good def and those crazy avenger and luck, sure avenger is hard, but once you master it, it's good.
Inferno need rebalance, they're okay against all except dark magic, what can you do againts dark magic? I'd like to hear any solution.
And why nival make the gated stacks need to wait 1 turn to act, it make gating less powerful as it should be. It's better to make the gating stacks still spend 1 turn without swift gating, but the gated creatures can act immediately, with swift gating, the gating creatures only spend 50% initiative to gate.
Inferno also the only faction that need very hard thinking without Deleb and Grok, nebiros need a little, alastor too, the rest? you must think very damn hard, in hard mode or heroic, normal mode has nothing to do with hard thinking.
I see many way with other factions to beat heroic mode, but it's impossible with inferno if you're not lucky (no deleb), even grok has little chance in heroic.
So, if anyone here have very good strategy with inferno (no deleb), i would like to hear it, of course in another topic, it's a good idea to discuss inferno tactics, since it seems inferno is the least liked town. I almost give up with this town.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 10, 2007 02:07 PM |
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even havens with paladins are nothing.
Haven with paladins is never nothing, and there is no such force that can hit harder than paladins with triple growth due to training, packed with light spells and jousting at full distance. No kind of rune can reproduce that effect.
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He's not bugged
Yes he is, his special should give 0,5% per level increase to initiative rather to 2%per level increase at ATB bar.
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Inferno need rebalance, they're okay against all except dark magic, what can you do againts dark magic? I'd like to hear any solution.
Use your dark magic  Fight fire with fire. It's not likely your enemy has dark and light at once most of the time. Against necropolis, unfortunately, most dark spells are worthless, including the puppet master, so inferno<necropolis.
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I see many way with other factions to beat heroic mode, but it's impossible with inferno if you're not lucky (no deleb), even grok has little chance in heroic.
agreed.. :<
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So, if anyone here have very good strategy with inferno (no deleb), i would like to hear it, of course in another topic, it's a good idea to discuss inferno tactics, since it seems inferno is the least liked town. I almost give up with this town.
I will try to gather all the tips I can and write something in a new topic where we can discuss any possible way of playing inferno competetively. Maybe we'll figure out something.
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