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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 03, 2006 11:48 PM |
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I like BladeWhirl but I have an idea how to improve it. Like you said, the Vanguard moves in one line, damaging all units it passes but only at half damage. It does not lose it's turn and the end of it but theres a penalty: The vanguard loses half his defense until the next turn. Enemies cannot retaliate against him if he attacks in this manner but the player would have to choose between doing full damage to one unit or half damage to as many units as the Vanguard can hit, making it an important tactical decision. Very nice work War-Overlord...
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 04, 2006 03:40 PM |
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I say Chieftain and its decided.
The skill for elite vanguard seems a little under- and overpowered
depending if its War Overlords or SBlisters.
Why don't we give them an idea where they move to some spot and hit all adjacent creatures with only half damage and no retaliation?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 04, 2006 08:13 PM |
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I can't believe they took the name Pack hunter for the wolves... The expansion neutral Wolf creatures has two abilities: Howl (which can be used once to summon an equivalent number of wolves to the field) and Pack Hunter (which means if one wolf stack attacks, all other wolf stacks will attack if they are adjacent to any targets). Good thing is that ability differs from our own but bad news is we are gonna need a new name.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 04, 2006 09:14 PM |
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I feel like having a go...
Mauwhl
Envious Sage – spells do more damage to enemy spellcasters, increase factor depends on enemy's spellcasting level
Mauwhl's childhood was filled with dreams of becoming a Shaman, but to his mounting annoyance, outside of his mind his magic stretched only to the occasional fiery burst. Time passed, but he improved little. There grew in his heart a great jealousy of all those more capable than himself, and although in later years his envy finally brought him Shamanistic powers, his subconscious was never cleared of the slight dislike of anyone magically inclined.
Starts with Bloodlust, Dark Magic, Master of Curses
Any good? Dark magic suitable (I forget what magic these guys go in for)?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 04, 2006 10:29 PM |
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It seems you guys misinterpreted my Bladewhirl. The disability to retaliate against Bladewhirld is already made possible due to the No-Retalition ability that they already have. It also makes the unit immobile because the become a virtual cyclone of weapons. This makes a Whirling Vanguard becomes a very dangerous "pitfall" on the battlefield.
This is a very tactical ability, since all routes are automaticly planned to be the shortest possible, if you use Bladewhirl on a much passed tile or in the vecinity of some enemies, the Vanguard damages many enemies during the duration of the ability.
Personaly I don't think we can call the name election over until, our agitator, Baklava has had his say about this.
It's a crying shame we have rethink our name for the ability formerly known as packhunter. We could keep it very simple and change it to something like Packmentality or Spirit of the Pack. Or we could change it to something like Horde Power.
Gnoll_Mage has raised an interesting question. What Magic does a Stronghold focuses on. It can't be a unique magic, because if we would do that, we would have to scrap Bloodlust. The only problem with this is that we can't be unique, because all combinations of schools has already been used. Personaly I think it would be most logical to use Light and Dark magic, because the stat that is least focused on is Spellpower. We also should think about which abilities are required to learn the others, especialy for Uncontrolable Rage.
Lastly, I'd like to give some advice to Gnoll_Mage for his hero's bio. Firstly I'd like to advise you to be tradtional and link the increase of your unique ability to Hero's level. Secondly, I'd like to give a suggestion for the name of your ability. Envious Sage is nice, but it sounds a bit forced. I would like to suggest the name "Poison Envy". Lastly, I think you should alter the name of your hero. I think it resembles the Hero name Grawl and the verb "to maul" to much. I'll leave it to you to come up with a new name. Other than that, you've made a very good bio. I'd also like it, if you guys told me what you think of my Bios.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 05, 2006 12:12 AM |
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Lemme get this straight... BladeWhirl isn't like Bladestorm from warcraft? And if so, lemme see if i got it right... The vanguard is placed on a certain tile. any unit that moves past it, gets attacked by the spinning vanguard swords? ie, vanguard sitting there, a nightmare runs towards the shaman passing the vanguard will get sliced before it reaches the shaman, hence taking damage? That's quite cool too...
For the wolves, I would suggest war training or pack training. what's another word for pack and another word for hunter? If nothing comes up, I'd go with spirit of the pack. I would suggest that the Chieftain specializes in summoning magic and dark or light magic. what does the ranger specialize in anyways? I'm against creating a new school of magic. too much trouble...
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Crashnburn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2006 02:11 AM |
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A lot going on since last I looked last week. Where to start?
1) Ambush - Secondary skill under Blood Lust. Ambush gives the Barbarian/Chieftan/Warlord the ability to suprise his enemy when he attacks them. The Barbarian's/Chieftan's/Warlord's enemy will be caught unaware and will be unable to prepare for combat therefore bypassing their tatics phase. The enemy hero's troops will be randomly placed in what would of been there tatics field. This ability only works when attacking another hero, not on neutral units, and only if you attack them. It will not work if the enemy hero attacks you. (If you guys feel so inclined you can also include a decrease to the enemy hero's army's initiative.)
2) Barbarian vs. Chieftan - a) My vote goes for Barbarian. As I have said before its traditional. The Barbarian hero was one of the four heroes in HOMM1 and has been in every other version. I feel changing the name doesn't do it justice. b) I'm not in favor of chieftan as this, for me, harkens back to Warcraft with Thrall, Cairne Bloodhoof and the Tauren. c) I looked over the Dwarven units and did not see any one of them named "Warlord". I prefer this name to Chieftan. So for me it's: Barbarian > Warlord > Chieftan
3) Blade Whirl - I think at its core it's a good concept but I think you guys are making it too complicated. Forget about making it an activated ability. Forget about making it last one turn. Instead rename it something like Battle Rage and make it a passive ability. Make it so that they attack any enemy unit that is or becomes adjacent to them regardless if they attack the vanguard or not. For example: enemy Necromancer moves his vampires to attack a stack of our goblins. But where they move them puts them adjacent to the vanguard as well. So after the vampires attacks the goblins and the goblins retaliate the vanguard then attack the vampires. This ability would also work well with the vanguard veteran having no enemy retaliation and the vanguard not having it. So going back to the example; if the vampires have a retaliation they will use it to retaliate against the vanguard. But against the vanguard veterans the vampires wouldn't be able to retaliate. Another example of Battle Rage at work would be if I move my vanguard to attack the enemy's liches but they (the vanguard) are also adjacent to two other enemy units, let's say skeletons and zombies. The vanguard would attack the liches first, because that is what he was ordered to do. Then the liches would retaliate. Next the vanguard would attack the skeletons, and if they had a retaliation they would retaliate. And after that the vanguard would attack the zombies who would retaliate if they had a retaliation. Now that does sound like a lot of damage the vanguard has taken and its true, but think of it strategically. Those enemy troops have taken damage and lost lives as well plus the vanguard also ate up their retaliations so you can safely move in other melee units to attack. Now imagine the same scenario with the veterans... no enemy retaliation. So it takes away the before mentioned stategic value of eating up enemy retaliations but your vanguard veterans are now safe and sound. Ability is somewhat similar to the Grim Raiders' Lizard Bite ability but its not limited to when an ally to the Grim Raider attacks an adjacent unit. The vanguard will attack any and all enemy units that come into melee range.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 05, 2006 02:40 AM |
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Edited by SBlister at 02:52, 05 Sep 2006.
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The dwarf unit is now Stormlord so we can revert back to Warlord. That ends the Barbarian/Chieftain debate. Thanks CrashBurn for the info... Alright we have 3 Hero bios and specialization. Good job everyone. 7 more to go... I've added War-Overlord's heroes to the MASTER POST. I'll let Gnoll Mage tweak his before I add it.
The name Battle Rage has been taken for an ability for one of the Renegade units. Something like deals 1.5 damage more after each retaliation.
I like the new Blade Whirl suggested by CrashBurn. Forget about losing turns and activated ability. But the only difference I would make is, since they are the vanguard, their task is to guard other units. so if say the vampires tried to attack a goblin stack who's standing somewhere behind the vanguard, they would be force to run pass the vanguard. while running, the vanguard takes a cheap shot and damages the running vampires. hence, they lose a number of creatures before actually reaching the goblins. but the offensive part of this ability, i totally agree with CrashBurn.
Here's my take on an Orc Hero:
Greshmog
Having seen more seasons than most, Greshmog has fought numerous wars for the tribes and made a name for himself during the Troll Wars when he single handedly slayed 10 of the beasts in one battle. His reputation is well respected by all and though he is aged, he is still sharp as ever, commanding the most dangerous battalion of orc Vanguard in existence. Fiercely loyal to their leader, these orc warriors are willing to lay their lives down for Greshmog if ever need be.
War Veteran: All Vanguard and Vanguard Veteran in hero's army gain +1 to their offence and defense for every three levels of the hero, starting on first level.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 05, 2006 07:53 AM |
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From what I understood from Chrashburn Blade Whirl attacks all adjacent creatures but in multiple strikes and the enemies get their retaliations as well...Sound interesting.
Great Warlord is back
Ambush wouldn't need decreased initiative but maybe all enemies would start their ATP values from 0?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 05, 2006 12:12 PM |
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Quote:
Lastly, I'd like to give some advice to Gnoll_Mage for his hero's bio. Firstly I'd like to advise you to be tradtional and link the increase of your unique ability to Hero's level.
Sorry, should have said - it would be dependant on the level, but also on the power of the enemy.
Quote:
Secondly, I'd like to give a suggestion for the name of your ability. Envious Sage is nice, but it sounds a bit forced. I would like to suggest the name "Poison Envy".
Fine, although that sounds a little too strong.
Quote:
Lastly, I think you should alter the name of your hero. I think it resembles the Hero name Grawl and the verb "to maul" to much.
Grawl - yes I realised that, in fact it was even worse than it is now at first.
Maul - it does since this is where the name came from! Is that a problem in itself?
Mawgl maybe?
Another one:
Abrahanna
Born Leader - randomly in combat her voice of command grants a stack the ability to charge, for one attack only; frequency of shout increases with level
Self-confident to the core, Abrahanna misses no opportunity to gain more power and control: her fierce tone of voice, inherited from her mother, means sure she is not lacking in this area. The stern bark of her commands stirs the troops she has overwhelmed with her imperious presence into deeds normally infeasible. She has been a great help in gathering new recruits for the Orc army.
Starts with Basic Bloodlust, Basic Leadership and Recruitment
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 05, 2006 12:20 PM |
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And the retouched previous one...
Mawghl
Deep Envy – spells do more damage to enemy spellcasters, increase factor depends on hero's level and enemy creature's spellcasting level
Mawghl's childhood was filled with dreams of becoming a Shaman, but to his mounting annoyance, outside of his mind his magic stretched only to the occasional fiery burst. Time passed, but he improved little. There grew in his heart a great jealousy of all those more capable than himself, and although in later years his envy finally brought him Shamanistic powers, his subconscious was never cleared of the slight dislike of anyone magically inclined.
Starts with Basic Bloodlust, Basic Dark Magic, Master of Curses
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 05, 2006 03:11 PM |
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Gilash
Gilash was kidnapped as a child and raised with goblins. He managed to survive and rise high among them. Now he is able to call his minions to arms and exceeds in commanding them.
Horde riser - All Goblin and Hobgoblins in hero's army gain +1 to their offence and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level. Also calls extra goblins/hobgoblins to arms for every battle when it begins. The Amount of called goblins/hobgoblins depend on hero level.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Crashnburn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2006 04:23 PM |
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Quote:
The name Battle Rage has been taken for an ability for one of the Renegade units. Something like deals 1.5 damage more after each retaliation.
I had a feeling it was taken. I would suggest then renaming it to Battle Fury, War Monger, or maybe just Fury.
Quote:
I like the new Blade Whirl suggested by CrashnBurn. Forget about losing turns and activated ability. But the only difference I would make is, since they are the vanguard, their task is to guard other units. so if say the vampires tried to attack a goblin stack who's standing somewhere behind the vanguard, they would be force to run pass the vanguard. while running, the vanguard takes a cheap shot and damages the running vampires. hence, they lose a number of creatures before actually reaching the goblins. but the offensive part of this ability, i totally agree with CrashnBurn.
Thanks for the support, SBlister. I think it would be too much if the vanguard also attacked any units passing by as well as attacking all adjacent enemy units.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted September 05, 2006 09:26 PM |
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It's been a while since I posted anything
I like the heroes, they're very nice, just try not to take real words and change the spelling, that's not too original (like the maul guy)
I think Nival actually reads this and just takes the ability/unit names they like... 
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 05, 2006 10:14 PM |
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Edited by SBlister at 22:30, 05 Sep 2006.
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I feel like I'm some kinda moderator that tells everyone what needs to be done and all that these days... Well good job all around. If you look at the neutral wolf unit, its abilities would have fit perfectly for our goblins but nevermind. It's after thought. Pay no heed. Moving on...
Here's another two Hero abilities (someone do the bios):
Female Orc
Brigand Queen - Increases the amount of gold received from raiding.
Male Orc alchemist/shaman type
Tribal Tattoos - All units have a chance of starting out with a random light magic spell (divine strength, haste, endurance, deflect missiles). Probability increases with hero level 2%/level.
1. We need to decide on what exactly the Blade Whirl does. So comments everyone. And I do mean EVERYONE.
2. Ok we now have 6 heros. Mawgl's name needs to be changed though. I think everyone agrees on that. So that leaves us with 4 more heroes.
3. The Gilash hero's bio needs to be lengthened to double its current size and the starting abilities need to be added.
4. The Spiked Armor ability of the Dire Behemoth is awfully similiar to the Magma Shield of the Magma Dragon of the Dwarves. Perhaps a new ability is in order? How bout Devour as previously suggested only this time its for the behemoths (pre-upgrade) and what they do is eat a stack of dead creatures and gain back health. Is that cool?
5. I would sugget changing the warlord's stats to attack 3 defense 2 spellpower 0 and knowledge 0. Comments.
6. MASTERPOST is being updated accordingly.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 05, 2006 10:44 PM |
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To answer your questions, you got my intention for bladewhirl exacly right(apart from the part where you said they were SITTING there). The Ranger specialises in destructive and light magic (don't ask me why).
I'm glad we can revert the hero name back to Warlord.
I agree on the cheapshot on running past enemies, it is in the line of my original ability. I disaprove of the offensive part thouugh, it is basicly a version of War-Dance-Combo and Six-Headed-Attack, with intervals. It attacks all, but takes turns to attack each of them individualy. Sorry guys, but it resembles previous abilities to much.
I would also like to give my opinion about the new heroes that have been proposed. (BTW, I kinda regret that my hero bio's are taken in so easily. I like bashing such things into perfection.)
First SBlister. I like the name Greshmog and his ability. We do have to watch out not to overuse such an ability , because we would resemble Haven to much(We're trying to be unique here). I have a small problem with your bio though, you're hero is over 221 years old ! Try to sort that out. You've also forgot to list the starting abilities of your hero.
Second Gnoll_Mage.
Mawghl is ready for implementation as far as I'm consired, it is great now. I do have some points of comment on Abrahanna. Firstly it is not clear to me what the unique ability does(this also causes that I'm not sure if the name fits). Secondly ": her fierce tone of voice, inherited from her mother, means sure she is not lacking in this area." is in my opinion not realy relevant in a bio, it is more interesting to know to know how she rose to the status of Warlord for instance.
Lastly JoonasTo. This hero is surely not finished. The bio is to short, you have no starting skills, you're unique ability borders to the overpowered and resembles Necromacy to much if I understand it correctly and I think we're getting to much of creature boosters.
I'll also give a try to create a new hero. (If it sucks or has mistakes, tell me ! Give me sh!t.) I also want to volunteer for the bios for the Brigand Queen hero and MAgic Tattoos hero.
Corguhd
Corguhd is horribly deformed and is strangely proud of that fact. He used to be a Goblin but has undergone the Rite of Blood several times. He now resembles an Orc more than normal Hobgoblins and is physicaly superior to all of them despite his deformeties. After being a Trollhandler for several years his overseers started to notice a peculiar trait of Corguhd. Corguhd could not be wounded, his skin cracked like stone and eventualy regrew. Seeing remarkable potention, the shamans of his tribe tought Corguhd the basics of magic in order to partialy recreate his skincondition to others.
Ability: Stoneskin (Hero can cast Endurance with enhanced effect. Enhanche of the spell is dependant of hero's level)
Hero starts with Basic Bloodlust, Basic Light Magic and Endurance spell.
About the new starting stats of the Warlord I have some comments. If anything the Stronghold is attack oriented. With defence second and spellcasting third. In this logic, starting the Hero with no attack seems off. Of anything, attack should be the Warlord's main strenght and would be something of the opposite of the Knight who focusses on defence first and attack second. If we would have spellpower as a third, we'd be different from both the Demonlord and the Knight.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 05, 2006 10:55 PM |
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Quote:
Second Gnoll_Mage.
Mawghl is ready for implementation as far as I'm consired, it is great now.
Well I'm glad someone likes the name  . Thanks.
Quote:
I do have some points of comment on Abrahanna. Firstly it is not clear to me what the unique ability does(this also causes that I'm not sure if the name fits).
As said, it occasionally randomly bestows the charge ability on one stack in the army. Condescender could be a better name.
Quote:
Secondly ": her fierce tone of voice, inherited from her mother, means sure she is not lacking in this area." is in my opinion not realy relevant in a bio, it is more interesting to know to know how she rose to the status of Warlord for instance.
Well that is how she rose through the ranks - by being a figure of command, instinctively obeyed. The phrase explains her special.
Edited version (slightly less of the `personal` phrase above, extra sentence at end to briefly describe her rise to power...):
Abrahanna
Born Leader - randomly in combat her voice of command grants a stack the ability to charge, for one attack only; frequency of shout increases with level
Self-confident to the core, Abrahanna misses no opportunity to gain more power and control: her fierce tone of voice means sure she is not lacking in this area. The stern bark of her commands stirs the troops she has overwhelmed with her imperious presence into deeds normally infeasible. She has been a great help in gathering new recruits for the Orc army, and her natural leadership qualities have pushed her upwards through the ranks.
Starts with Basic Bloodlust, Basic Leadership and Recruitment
btw, what's / where is the MASTERPOST?
Can I stake a claim for the final hero? (Description tomorrow hopefully.)
Do we have a campaign idea / heroes?
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 06, 2006 02:07 AM |
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Edited by SBlister at 05:55, 06 Sep 2006.
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MASTER POST page 8. The LONG one! I will make the adjustments according to your feedback. Don't mind if I tinker with Gilash's profile a bit, do you? I am adding my version of the Vanguard's cheapshot first. See if you all like it and let me know. I have added an 'A' to Mawghl, making him now Mawghal and resting all boos and hisses to his name. Hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of doing so. Working on correcting Greshmog's profile. No worries, that would be the last "unit" specialization. We've got three more heroes to do. The brigand queen and tribal tattoo alchemist heroes. I'd appreciate if the final hero be a female one. I took the liberty of changing the Hero specialization "Pack Leader" and changed it to "Alpha Male" because there was another specialization named "Born Leader". Didn't want to have two specializations with leader in the name...
Cheapshot
Any enemy stack that runs to or past the vanguard will be attacked by the Vanguard before they are able to strike at their designated targets. Vanguards running past an enemy stack will attack said enemy but are at risk for being retaliated against. Vanguards will not perform this move if they do not select a stack to attack, ie. they will not do a cheapshot by simply moving to another tile.(Press CTRL to not do the running cheapshot attack).
Here's how it works:
The vanguards are standing 3 tiles ahead from the field edge. there are goblins standing behind them. they are attacking a Necropolis faction with vampires, zombies and ghosts. The vampires attack the goblins but are forced to move past the vanguard to do so. Running past the vanguard, the vampires are struck by the Vanguard's cheapshot and take damage before attacking the goblins. (A good move for protecting your shooters). That's the defensive part of this skill.
Now for the offensive part. The vanguard run towards the ghosts but the zombies are in the way. so they elect to do a cheapshot (ie not pressing CTRL). So they run towards the ghost but do damage to the zombies before. the zombies retaliate dealing damage to the vanguard. the vanguard proceed to the ghosts and deal damage. the surviving ghosts retaliate against the vanguard. Vanguard veterans have no retaliation so both zombies and ghosts would not be able to do damage to them. That (I hope) satisfies everyone.
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Unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted September 06, 2006 07:56 AM |
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Edited by Unixmage at 08:10, 06 Sep 2006.
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This thread is great! By the way I think that cheapshop should be enabled with ctrl and disabled by default moving.
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DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
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posted September 06, 2006 04:27 PM |
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i have made another topic that includes Stonghold(Coolest castle ever).
Give it a shot!
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
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This thread is pages long: 
