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| Thread: Ultimate skills - worth getting? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 15, 2006 05:45 PM |
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Ultimate skills - worth getting?
Heroes can attain ultimate skills, provided the player carefully chooses a selected skillpath to get there. However, to get those skills requires the hero to be around level 30 (if not higher), provided all the offered skillups gave a relevant skill or ability in the first place.
Besides that, not every hero is even capable of attaining the ultimate skill, due to having a starting skill that makes it impossible (like Finlan, the Sylvan Campaign Hero, who starts with Tactics, making it impossible to get Battle Frenzy, Nature's Wrath and Flaming Arrows - which are all three prerequisite skills and all three fall under Attack, like Tactics).
I've played the really big single maps and was only able to achieve the ultimate skill with Raven in An Island Of One's Own. I never achieved it with the other maps - and yes, I aimed at doing pretty much all battles with my main hero. During the campaigns, your heroes are level-restricted. You can achieve the ultimate skill with Agrael relatively easy (I used it a lot during the campaign's last two missions), but he doesn't carry over through the campaigns anymore. Of the four heroes that you finally end the campaigns with (Godric, Finlan, Raelag and Zehir), Finlan is unable to get it (see above) and to get it with Godric it is far from easy either.
Even so, you are only able to briefly enjoy the fruits of the ultimate skills. Especially on single maps, either I cannot achieve it (not enough experience before the map ends) or only at the very end. Initially you have the build-up during the starting phase, then the exploration phase and finally the concluding phase. Ideally, you would want to make use of an ultimate skill for at least part of the exploration phase, so you can reap its rewards; during the concluding phase, you probably either carry enough momentum already that the relevancy of the ultimate skill doesn't matter, or you are weakened so far that it doesn't matter anymore whether you have it or not.
In short, I am wondering about the value of ultimate skills - and not because of what they do, but because of what you need to do to get them coupled to the duration in which you can use them in the game. Should the requirements be lessened (shouldn't be hard; most, if not all, ultimate skills have some odd required skills in them)? Should there be (much) bigger maps, where you can effectively field a hero with an ultimate skill? I'm curious what others think about this.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 07:08 PM |
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Well, let's see.
Arcane Omniscience: Useful.
Rage of the Elements: Average.
Unstoppable Charge: Useless because Retaliation Strike is useless.
Urgash's Call: Very useful.
Howl of Terror: Useless.
Nature's Luck: Useful.
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Eccentric Opinion
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juventas
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 07:34 PM |
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All are useless because of the reasons you stated. You are forced to take a gimped skill path just to get a skill that you will use for 5% of the game. Even then, you're not sure you will even be able to get it. Why be working at less than optimal effectiveness for 95% of the game just so you can be good in the last 5%?
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 08:00 PM |
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Prerequisites for some ultimates are very useful, though. For example Urgash's Call:
Gating, Consume Corpse, Mark of the Damned
Logistics, Pathfinding, Swift Gating, Teleport Assault
Attack, Battle Frenzy, Excruciating Strike, Power of Speed
Luck, Soldier's Luck, Swarming Gate, Dead Man's Curse
Dark Magic, Master of Mind, Dark Renewal, Weakening Strike
These are mostly the skills that I would take anyway, even if not going for the ultimate.
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SCKnight
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 01:38 AM |
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In my opinion, it's up to you. If you think they will be of some use, then get them. One thing to look out for though, is making a hero too powerful and when you start the next campaign, that same hero is now your enemy! I did that when I gave Godric the Logistics skill in the final Haven mission, and he was almost on me the whole time when my Inferno hero had to run away from him.
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Zeldor
Known Hero
The Bringer of Pestilence
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posted July 16, 2006 04:32 AM |
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They really need to change them [or we will have to mod them].
Inferno and Sylvan have great ultimates, Heaven is totally useless [I wouldn't take it even as normal skill], rest is average [they are either not so powerful or require stupid skills to take].
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 11:26 AM |
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Academy ultimate, Arcane Omniscience is great, too.
It requires Summoning Magic, Enlightenment, Sorcery and Attack, which are very useful
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 16, 2006 08:43 PM |
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Sharp
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 09:48 PM |
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2 Neo:Lol do u really think that howl of terror is useless? 
Let's try game-U Will Play with morale -7 and i with 40 Vampire Lords,choose army as u want-i will defeat u
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 10:51 PM |
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I never said that Howl of Terror is useless! I just gave an EXAMPLE of a skill that is useful and requires good abilities to reach.
Howl of Terror has high requirements even for an ultimate (requires 1 level more) and you have to sacrifice Archery which can cripple you somehow. Master of Mind for mass slow and confusion would also be useful. Other than that requirements are OK and -6 morale can be a killer... unless you're facing another necro
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Zeldor
Known Hero
The Bringer of Pestilence
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posted July 17, 2006 06:12 AM |
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Howl of Terror is useless when it comes [late game], especially with other skills you take before and artifact you already have. And you need to activate it [so you won't cast some powerful spell].
Arcane Omniscience is almost useless, because till you get it you have most of spells, so you will get almost nothing. IT justs soind great "Wow, I get all spells".
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juventas
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 07:01 AM |
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That's what I'm saying. The ultimates come in too late to do anything. I guarantee you the game has already been decided by then. Anything else is an artificial prolongation of the match.
You are, however, a bit off about the usefulness of some ultimates. Taking one turn to reduce your enemy's morale to *at least* -2 will pay off big time when some of their units miss their turns. This will buy you more time to cast "some powerful spell." And Arcane Omniscience not only gives you all the spells, it gives you the ability to cast them all at expert level. That's more useful than just having a bunch of spells.
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Zeldor
Known Hero
The Bringer of Pestilence
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posted July 17, 2006 08:00 AM |
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juventas:
But to take that you need to give up very usefull skills, for example:
Intelligence [50% more mana]
Mana Regeneration [double regeneration]
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 08:34 AM |
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wizards have no problems with mana without intelligence and mana reg. These skills are warlock's tools.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 17, 2006 09:47 AM |
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Quote:
Howl of Terror is useless when it comes [late game], especially with other skills you take before and artifact you already have. And you need to activate it [so you won't cast some powerful spell].
Arcane Omniscience is almost useless, because till you get it you have most of spells, so you will get almost nothing. IT justs soind great "Wow, I get all spells".
I disagree with this. You have to master the magic schools to learn spells of level 3+ (ok, with the proper skill of sorcery that will be 4+ but still) - thus, with Arcane Omniscience, you practically get the benefit of being both Expert Light Magic, Expert Dark Magic, Expert Summoning Magic and Expert Destructive Magic in one ability. Of course, you do not get the benefits of the perks, but still, to me that's pretty powerfull! And also bear in mind, you will gain mastery in usefull skills like Attack and Sorcery on the way, and will furthermore gain usefull abilities like Counterspell (one of my favorites). Of course, there is the problem, that until you actually reach the skill, you Wizard will be hampered by mastering no magic skills besides the awfull Summoning Magic.
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CaptLoser
Hired Hero
Superhero of CherryCandy
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posted July 17, 2006 12:48 PM |
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I agree with alcibiades. Wizards ultimate skill is usefull. You will gain some also usefull abilities, like attack and sorcery like alcibiades said.
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92% of Teens have moved on to (c)rap if you are one of the 8% who listen to real music copy this in your signature
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juventas
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 03:40 PM |
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Awful summoning magic?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 17, 2006 05:10 PM |
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Well, a lot of spells in the Summoning tree are pretty useless; there are just a few spells that are really worth it, Phantom Forces possibly being the most important one.
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Sharp
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2006 05:45 PM |
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Oh sry neo it wasn't your reply that i quoted
I think that the Way-To-Ultimate skills are good for necro
So enlighment-good
dark magic-Master of curses isn't bad,but Pain would be better
attack-Cold Steel is very usefull-like hellfire
Logistics-That is very good skill for everyone-bud uncommon is average-Pathfinding
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 10:35 PM |
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Eh Master of Pain is imo the suckiest of the three dark magic base skills. I would take either Master of Curses or Master of Mind over it any day.
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