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| Thread: Complete ideas for expansions!!! Really good quality! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 20, 2006 02:30 PM |
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Ok, I will delete the immortality spell from my list and replace it. But not with prayer (Its the same as benediction to me). Think of some other spell.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2006 08:10 PM |
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Yeah, I know the developers think as benediction as a replacement for Prayer. But that's a mistake really, cause the bonus from Benediction is way too small to be of any real use - only +1 bonus, whereas Prayer should offer a more substantial bonus. But that's just my oppinion.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 20, 2006 08:24 PM |
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OK, I think you convinced me about that prayer spell. Could it be like this: increases all units stats by 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 ? What do you think? And immortality was a healing spell, so I will need to rearrange the spell types of light magic. What do you suggest?
And besides, if there is anyone that likes the *EXODIA* idea, please let me know. Thanks.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2006 10:20 PM |
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Yeah, basically it's a level 4 spell, so you will only use it a either Advanced or Expert level. When I made the spell, I figured something like +3/+6 to Attack and Defence (adv/exp), +1/+2 to Speed, and +10 % / + 20 % to Initiative. In that way, it's not quite as powerfull as each of the spells increasing the separate properties (Endurance and Righteous Might will give you +12 Attack or Defence, Haste will give you + 40 % Initiative, and Energy Burst for +4 Speed), but it's still a very usefull bonus when you consider one spell adds all these properties - and of course, Master Of Blessing should make it a mass effect.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 20, 2006 10:44 PM |
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How bout being able to use disintigrate on specific sections of castle walls, towers and moats?
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 07:02 AM |
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In Yu-gi-oh, the exodia is able to activate only under certain conditions (you must have all the cards to activate), and there are corresponding sacrifices to "summon" the creature. unless you include some kinda sacrifices to "call" for these exodia, it will be too overpowered.
And even then, exodia may still be overpowered.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 21, 2006 01:31 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 13:32, 21 Sep 2006.
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You know what Alc, youve changed my mind with that explanation. I dont want prayer anymore.
Disintegrating walls?  Not so sure...
And does that mean nobody wants *EXODIA*?? Why do you see the creature as overpowered? You see these problems:
1. If its overpowered, it doesnt have place in game,
2. If its weak, it doesnt make sense to collect 5 exodia artefacts.
So how strong should it be? Or what else do you want changed? Or dont you actually want such interesting feature at all??? Explain please.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 21, 2006 02:46 PM |
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You cannot give any absolute stats on such a creature. If it has 500 HP, it'll be useless pretty fast. If it has 5000 HP it'll be overpowered in early and mid game, but might be usefull in late game. Instead, you'd have to make the HP and damage etc. depend on Spellpower. But such a spell is already in the game: Summon Phoenix. That's why I don't see any use for this spell - or artifact - or whatever it is.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 21, 2006 03:09 PM |
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You dont know whats exodia 
Shame uourself...
And whats your post about? You dont understand probably. I ll explain: there will be 5 *exodia* (the name does not matter, but lets call it *exodia*) artefacts hidden on the adventure map (I think they could be burried like tear of asha, and every part would have its own *obelisks*). If a hero collects these artefacts, he can merge them into *exodia* and if he is equipped with this artefact, at the beginning of each battles the *exodia* fights at heros cause. When its killed, the hero cant ressurect it in combat, but he can rebuild it after combat, so it will *live* again in the next combat. The *exodia* creature shold be only *the strongest* not *overpowered*. Its stats are constant (not like phoenix) and also has some special abilities like mechanical (or at least non-living), immune to mind control, death strike... or something like that.
Do you understand now? Is it OK?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 21, 2006 07:02 PM |
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I understand it perfectly fine, and I still don't see any use in it. But how strong shall this Exodia be? Should it be like slightly stronger than a Black Dragon? How usefull is that? "Woohoo, now I finally found those 5 artifacts, and now there will be 1 Black Dragons fighting for me in each battle!" Pretty useless. Should it be like the Azure Dragon of Heroes 3? Still pretty useless in late game. Should it be like 10 Azure Dragons? Ok, that might actually make a difference, but then we have the mess, cause what if someone by accident finds them in early game? The AI cheats with the normal obelisks, so how should this work? Imagine like somebody having this power after 1 month of gameplay ... pretty unballanced.
The case is, which you seem to fail to understand, that you can't work in absolute numbers in a game like this. You can't make a creature like this with some specific number of HP and damage range. It will either end up being overpowered or underpowered. A very good example was the Titans Lightningbolt of Heroes III Shadow Of Death. You assembles these 4 very powerfull artifacts and got the ability to cast a spell for free that did 600 damage. That's absolutely useless in late game!
You have to work in relative numbers. Make the strength depend on some parameter that changes through the game and reflects the Heroes power - for instance spellpower or knowledge or Hero level. By providing something like the Phoenix whoes HP and damage depend on spellpower, it'll be fairly weak in early game, and very powerfull in late game. Just like overall army power. The same with Destructive spells. You don't see the implosion doing a fixed amount of damage - 100 or 1000 points of damage. Imagine Implosion doing always 1000 points of damage. How extremely powerfull wouldn't this spell be in early game? And in late game, well it wouldn't make too much of a difference. That's why I'm against this spell ... or these artifacts ... or whatever you call it.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 21, 2006 08:19 PM |
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Well, *exodia* is actually supposed to be *the key to victory*, if you dont understand, in the yu-gi-oh game, if you summon Exodia, it means instant winning of the game.
And I dont know how is anyone going to find 5 artefacts in a month. The maps with *exodia* parts should be made XL and the artefacts hidden so good, that it will be a problem to find them in a couple of months. If you are thinking, if anyone makes a map in the editor so, that he finds the *exodia* quickly, its only cheating.
And if you want its stats to depend on something, it could be also number of week. From the other alternatives only hero lvl could be good, because not every hero has same primary skills, what would make it unfair for other races.
But is there really nobody that likes the *exodia* idea? Everyone sees it like a *balancer*, not like a *gamer*???
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 21, 2006 09:09 PM |
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Listen, even in yu-gi-oh exodia sucked terribly. this *key to victory* was THE most annoying thing. You beat your worthless opponent, you need only one more turn, and then he has the luck to draw the 5th exodia card and he wins... that's just stupid, these *keys to victory* don't have a place in a decent strategy game, no matter how you implement them. Sorry, but I just really don't see it working...
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2006 05:09 AM |
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In Yu-gi-oh, these "high level creatures" requires certain conditions and sacrifices to be made before the exodia is able to appear.
In Yu-gi-oh, (I think) the first 2 level creatures that are summoned can be summoned with no penalties. The 3rd level creature that is summoned needs 1 sacrifice, and the 4th level creature needs 2 sacrifices and so on. If I remember correctly, these exodia creatures also needs a number of sacrifices, since they are at least level 7 (I'm not a fan of Yu-gi-oh so please do not flame me if I got this wrong), they need a substantial number of creature sacrifices.
Thus if exodia were to play a part in Heroes, perhaps you can have it, such that in order to "summon" this exodia, a certain number of combat rounds should have elapsed, and a good number of creatures (in terms of hp or in terms of number of creatures of a certain level, say level7 creatures? ouch) should be sacrificed. In this way, you cannot summon exodia in early combats to win the game easily, cannot turn the tide and win the game with 1 peasant against a throng of black dragons, and leaves the summoner weakened after the combat even if he won (good for closely strengthed battles to prevent substantial further losses?).
How about that?
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2006 05:28 AM |
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I like the idea of Exodia.
I think it is fairly balance, assuming the map maker did not hide it close to his own base to give himself a easy win. Since it is a artifact, it could be just randomly distributed through out the map. (can even have an option when creating the map to turn on or off the Exodia option)
One modification to this would be where you have to "build" him in battle. So once you got a piece, you would have learn the skill of "Summon Exodia X body part" spell. So it would take about total of 5 turns to fully summon exodia to the field, in which the oppoent could try to destory it before it got fully summon. Of couse once summon, it would be very powerful.
One thing I don't like is why the need to turn Heroes into Yugioh?
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2006 06:08 AM |
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I don't suppose he is trying to turn heores into yugioh. He is just trying to use ideas from other places to improve the game play with suitable adaptations.
Edit: If that's the case, I will wait for you to summon the 4th artefact, then I'll destroy one of the pieces and you lose 4 turns. Very impractical in that case, since the exodia will never have a chance to play, and you lose 4 turns if you ever choose to use it.
For me, I think I like the way Diablo2 levels up, giving you a lot of freedom to develope your specialisation (while giving creatures abilities that prevents you from overspecialising in a certain field). If only heroes can incorporate certain such features in its character developement...
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 22, 2006 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
In Yu-gi-oh, these "high level creatures" requires certain conditions and sacrifices to be made before the exodia is able to appear.
In Yu-gi-oh, (I think) the first 2 level creatures that are summoned can be summoned with no penalties. The 3rd level creature that is summoned needs 1 sacrifice, and the 4th level creature needs 2 sacrifices and so on. If I remember correctly, these exodia creatures also needs a number of sacrifices, since they are at least level 7 (I'm not a fan of Yu-gi-oh so please do not flame me if I got this wrong), they need a substantial number of creature sacrifices.
Thus if exodia were to play a part in Heroes, perhaps you can have it, such that in order to "summon" this exodia, a certain number of combat rounds should have elapsed, and a good number of creatures (in terms of hp or in terms of number of creatures of a certain level, say level7 creatures? ouch) should be sacrificed. In this way, you cannot summon exodia in early combats to win the game easily, cannot turn the tide and win the game with 1 peasant against a throng of black dragons, and leaves the summoner weakened after the combat even if he won (good for closely strengthed battles to prevent substantial further losses?).
How about that?
- In yugioh you just need to have 5 different body cards in yuor hand and you win the game automatically.
- Now this idea sounds interesting. Maybe it could be something like the Archdevils' pit lord summon only with sacrifice. You have to sacrifice at least *specific number* of high level creatures AND their total hp must be ay least *specific number*. And then exodia could be stronger than the sacrificed creatures but not nearly invincible.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2006 09:57 AM |
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Precisely. Some heavy sacrifices before you can summon exodia. Alternatively, you can sacrifices a number of creatures to exodia, and the strength of this monster is a function of the attack/defence/hp/damage of the total sacrificed creatures.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 22, 2006 08:06 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 20:17, 22 Sep 2006.
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Thanks actionjack! I knew you are going to make something of this idea!!! 
And to clear up some things:
1. In yu-gi-oh you didnt have to make any more sacrifice, just to hold exodia pieces 
2. I am not trying to make yu-gi-oh out of Heroes, only trying to fill in some more interesting features 
3. I like actionjacks idea about summoning the exodia in parts  - this would be fair, but the parts cant be attacked!!! THATS unfair! 
and I forgot:
4. our *exodia* monster doesnt have to be the Exodia from yu-gi-oh, it can be maybe some heavy golem, or something like that, thats why I use the word exodia in *exodia*
Is NOW everything clear?
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 22, 2006 08:28 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 20:31, 22 Sep 2006.
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If you are wondering, how the Exodia looks like, here are some images:
The Exodia cards:
The Exodia complete:
As you can see, its called also *the forbidden one*
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WilX
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2006 08:59 PM |
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Why not make it require 5 summons spells/turns to call like was mentioned. Each turn will bring forth a part of the expodia. I think it's unfair to let part of the creature be destroyed thus negating the whole thing. I think what works best is if you can attack the parts, each one could represent a specific stat or feature, but you can't destroy them. However, you can severly weaken it before it becomes functional. Yes you should base it's strength off of hero level but naturally it should be very strong by comparison like a good stack of level 7s.
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