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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 12, 2006 01:40 PM |
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Quote:
I have many questions to this town:
1. Can be there any male Nagas? I don`t know if they can be male because in the HOMM 3 and 4 they werer females. Perhaps now there could be male Nagas with huge muscles and waepons...
2. If this town is a sanctuary, why canīt we took creatures from real sanctuaries (in Egypt for example). Anubis ot Thot... but the names should change. The appereance could be great.
3. Now I got only one creature in my mind:
Level 1: Wisp / Black Wisp
Flyer / Flyer
Dwelling: Boarded Forest / Haunted Forest
Other skills I canīt say now...
Golemcrafter
To answer your questions:
1. Yes, there will be male Naga. The Zealots are certainly male and while we haven't debated this yet, the Templars could be male. No doubt a portion of the heroes are male.
2. The town is not a sanctuary, it's a (swamp) temple. We already did what you suggested, we took creautres from the swamp and from religion and encorporated them into the town.
3. I realy like your idea of Wisps, they fit the swamp-theme very good. If you could explain a connection with the Naga, we could consider them. Personally I like Wisps better than Serpent Flies and with a lot of effort I might be able to combine them.
To actionjack, the Deathcloud argument may be weak, but it is the same argument you have been using: remove the skill cause they don't need it.
I agree there is a reason why other tankers don't have incorporal; firstly it would not make sense. Not having a body fits only ghosts. But remember that Deathroll is not exactly the same, while it maybe the same in the eventual result, Deathroll is far less frequent (I was thinking of 15% chance) and it moves the creature. Also remember that the Sentinels don't have a retaliation after a Deathroll.
The second reason that Tanker don't have Incorporal is because they already have other very hindering abilities; like Entangle, Great Shield and Multiheaded Attack. If you look realy closely to the Tankers, they all have defensive abilities and one offensive. The Hydras have Multi Head, that is defensive but they also have No Retalliation which is basicly and offensive move. Shield Bash, is the Offensive move for Footmen.
Like I already said somewhere before in the thread, we can't use sidestep in an animation; a sidestep is physically impossible for a crocodile and indeed any legged reptile. Because of the Arced position of their legs, which is like a 225 degree angle, they have all their weight standing in an arch. The angle of their legs would move drasticly if they would preform a sidestep, and then the whole arch structure of their legs would collapse. This would lead to the reptile falling flat on its face. The whole arch structure is also the reason why reptiles walk by twisting their leggs in an S-motion and not putting one foot in front of another.
Also removing the rider from the crocodile would be a different problem. This is logic problem, which basicly rests on the fact that crocodiles aren't intelligent creatures. While they may be relativly intelligent for a reptile, they can not be trained to be effective without a handler. If a crocodile would be put in a battlefield, it would have no motivation to doing anything. Without a handler, they would not attack the enemy and therefor there would be no use of putting crocodile in an army. This is why a crocodile would need a rider.
The Vote is still on though (2 pro < 1 neutral > 1 against) so still the pros are in the lead.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 12, 2006 01:49 PM |
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Quote:
BTW Baklava, how do you like the new description
I think they're great. The idea of basilisks getting a couple of legs more while evolving is a bit weak, though. But that's only a small issue.
Quote:
Personally I don't think that is the only reason.. but if that is how you reason why people left... be my guest.
Ok, people quit because other people didn't explain too well why they dropped their ideas. You have to continuosly say stuff like "I don't think that's a good idea, because <respecful yet strong reason for denial>" if you want people not to bail (although I got the impression some people would bail anyway). But let's leave that behind us now, shall we?
Quote:
Can be there any male Nagas?
Dude... Damn it... Of course there can be male naga, there MUST be male naga if they are to reproduct. Here we're talking about the naga as a race, not simply magical creatures.
Quote:
2. If this town is a sanctuary, why canīt we took creatures from real sanctuaries (in Egypt for example). Anubis ot Thot... but the names should change. The appereance could be great.
That would be great for another town, but since our town is in swamplands, that wouldn't fit too well. Also, our town is now called Temple, not Sanctuary.
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 12, 2006 04:00 PM |
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Quote:
3. I realy like your idea of Wisps, they fit the swamp-theme very good. If you could explain a connection with the Naga, we could consider them. Personally I like Wisps better than Serpent Flies and with a lot of effort I might be able to combine them.
You said that this town takes place in a so called swamp. The swamp is in my opinion the best place where a wisp can live. Actually there is no strong connection between Nagas and Wisps but a smaller, yes. They can be the defenders of the Nagas and of the whole dwellings of the town. I can't say more but I really like to see it in the game if it's okay and of course if they are wanted.
Later I show you my new idea for creature: the Naga Warrior and his upgrade, the Naga Swordmaster (they have of course 6 arms and all 6 arms a sword... )
Fantasy is not your enemy. Use it to overcome reality.
Fantasy
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2006 07:05 PM |
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Quote:
You said that this town takes place in a so called swamp. The swamp is in my opinion the best place where a wisp can live. Actually there is no strong connection between Nagas and Wisps but a smaller, yes. They can be the defenders of the Nagas and of the whole dwellings of the town. I can't say more but I really like to see it in the game if it's okay and of course if they are wanted.
Later I show you my new idea for creature: the Naga Warrior and his upgrade, the Naga Swordmaster (they have of course 6 arms and all 6 arms a sword... )
I think Wisp does fit with a swamp theme... but unsure for a Naga (lizard) type of theme. I do like Seperent fly as lv 1 creatures. However, the "virture" of having an Alt creature production system shine itself again...
The Multi arm Naga warrior unit was already suggested in in the list. Would suggest you to take look at it. Of couse, there is also nothing stoping you in posting what your version of multi armed Naga warrior units, and how you like them to be. Better if its also include a reasons of why it would be better.
Would also encourage others to take a read of the exisiting line ups, and give it a review.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 12, 2006 07:44 PM |
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Hmm... Level 1 unit with incorporeal ability... That would be nice
That is, if you agree wisps should be incorporeal.
Alright, finish up the wisps and we'll vote on whether to have them or serpent flies as the level 1 unit.
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 12, 2006 08:22 PM |
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Quote:
Hmm... Level 1 unit with incorporeal ability... That would be nice
That is, if you agree wisps should be incorporeal.
Alright, finish up the wisps and we'll vote on whether to have them or serpent flies as the level 1 unit.
Of course I agree but as upgreaded creature they should have an extra ability...
Fantasy is not your enemy. Use it to overcome reality.
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 12, 2006 08:34 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You said that this town takes place in a so called swamp. The swamp is in my opinion the best place where a wisp can live. Actually there is no strong connection between Nagas and Wisps but a smaller, yes. They can be the defenders of the Nagas and of the whole dwellings of the town. I can't say more but I really like to see it in the game if it's okay and of course if they are wanted.
Later I show you my new idea for creature: the Naga Warrior and his upgrade, the Naga Swordmaster (they have of course 6 arms and all 6 arms a sword... )
I think Wisp does fit with a swamp theme... but unsure for a Naga (lizard) type of theme. I do like Seperent fly as lv 1 creatures. However, the "virture" of having an Alt creature production system shine itself again...
The Multi arm Naga warrior unit was already suggested in in the list. Would suggest you to take look at it. Of couse, there is also nothing stoping you in posting what your version of multi armed Naga warrior units, and how you like them to be. Better if its also include a reasons of why it would be better.
Would also encourage others to take a read of the exisiting line ups, and give it a review.
The only problem with me is that I almost never read the posts written by other players. I know it is a problem because nobody wants to read the same thing again. I promise that I would change myself. Yeah, reasons are very-very important I know it. I almost always have reasons for my creatures but - as you could saw - not in my last letter. (See Wisp or Naga Warrior)
One more thing: What do you mean with reasons? What should it include?
Thanks for giving advices for me!
Fantasy is not your enemy. Use it to overcome the reality.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted October 12, 2006 09:53 PM |
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Edited by SBlister at 21:57, 12 Oct 2006.
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The Sinister Blistery one is back. I prefer serpentflies to wisps as a creature but the fact that wisps do live in murky swamps intrigues me. And there are many possibilities with wisps. How about we incorporate the wisps into part of the naga skills? Like changing it from sorcerer with hydromancy to summoner with wispomancy? Something like that? I know wispomancy is a stupid name so dont bring it up. Hey, War-overlord how do u like the new dwelling names? I would like to come up with the tech tree is you all don't mind...
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 12, 2006 11:20 PM |
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To SBlister, I like most of the ideas you suggested. Still I have some things I don't realy like. For instance the idea of using a lagoon suggests that the town is close to the seashore. It was us two who were fighting from the beginning to move away from the ocean shore. So using a lagoon would be contradictive. So here is the new line-up of dwellings. I for one would also like to hear the ideas of the other members.
1 Serpent Nest > Serpent Eyrie
2 Shore Dwellings > Shore Village
3 Chapel of Vipers > Chapel of Cobras
4 Darkwater Marsh > Darkwater Quagmire
5 Tranquil Refuge > Tranquil Retreat
6 Flooded Altar > Shalassa's Altar
7 Underwater Cave > Underwater Brood (We could also change underwater with something more fitting, but I can't come up with something at the moment) Also we should wait with a techtree, untill we decided on the firsts level creature.
To Golemcrafter; the reasons we're talking about, is basicly that you should argument why your idea is good or better than the existing one.
To everyone; Golemcrafters idea made me think, can't we combine the Serpent Fly idea with the Wisp idea ? Hear me out on this. Serpent Flies and Coatl are basicly flying snakey things and Wisps are unidentified glowy things. Now Wisps are only seen at night and nobody can see what they are because they glow to bright. Now what if we made the Wisp a realy glowy version of a Coatl. That way we could ditch the Serpent Fly name, which sounds strange anyhow, and we could use both ideas. Now we could make the Coatl the first level and make the Wisp the upgrade. The glowy trait can be explained by using the idea of Bioluminensence and that would help them hunt at night, by drawing prey and scaring predators. The fact that people get lost by following a Wisp is because they would be following a hunting glowy Coatl (aka Wisp). We would need to discus the abilities once more, but I wouldn't mind that. Now do you like the idea or is it total bullsh*t ? BTW, Golemcrafter do you mind that I used your idea ?
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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crepus
Adventuring Hero
Nuclear Power Plant
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posted October 13, 2006 01:59 AM |
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A few hero specials...well, mostly
...just from the top of my tipsy head.
I think there should be one Lizardman hero in the Naga town. This guy, being the foremost among his brethren, will have the ability to let both lizardmen and crocs/basilisk gain one extra attack and defence for every third level, commencing with the first level, as well as giving said troops the enraged ability. Calling his hero special Reptilian Rage is the best thing I've got on my mind now.
One Naga special should be a quicksand one. This lady feels the waters Shalassa, especially those deep below the rocks. She can call forth these waters and undermine parts of the battle area at the beginning of every battle. Temple troops can walk on the quicksand square as if it was normal, while heros non-Temple troops consider it to be an obstacle. Enemy can not see quicksand until a creature has walked into it or landed in it. A quicksand square stops all further movement for creature. The next turn creature has speed one and can only move to adjacent square. If creature chooses to attack instead of move then some damage is taken, as some of the troops fall deeper into the sand and perish. The quicksand spell works kind of like the firetrap one, letting hero choose a 10x3 area in which to place quicksand. This area represents the full width of the battlefield and three squares deep. Hero can not place quicksand on the two "starting" rows of battle field, ie where enemy hero initially places troops. The higher the hero level, the more squares of quicksand will be placed. If a large creature only partially falls into quicksand it will only lose half its initiative to get out.
**********************************************************************
Furthermore a few comments:
War-Overlord: I like your dwelling names, how about Cave of the Abyss/Brood of the Abyss instead of Underwater ditto?
As for the Basilisk Death-roll, I'm against it. As far as I've understood from sporadically reading, the basilisk will have a very different look from the croc (and I'm not seeing the bas as quite as flat as the croc in my mind's eye either). I think it should be compared to the crossbowmen of Haven. Two very different abilities depending on upgrade or not. It'll add a little spice to the players choicemaking while recruiting troops!
About the wisp, why not make it summonable from a Summoning Magic skill? I was a while ago thinking of some new creature that would once per battle throw a Thingamajig into the midst of enemy lines. This trinket would create a slight berserk in all troops surronding it, forcing them to attack the thingamajig instead of doing anything else. My thought was that instead of a thing, let it be the wisp that causes this commotion! Not until the wisp is dead/has lost all PH will those enemies be able to attack your more precious troops.
And even better if wisp has incorporeal ability! Hit points should be kept pretty low though, absolutely no more than hero spellpower.
____________
Mater tua criceta fuit, et Pater tuo
redoluit bacarum sambucus.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted October 13, 2006 04:16 AM |
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1. Good point with the lagoon. I still prefer Conclave of the Viper over Chapel of Vipers. The Altar names still needs to be changed. As for the last name, both suggestions don't sound captivating enough. I'm sure a good replacement will come up. What does everyone have to say?
2. I prefer to seperate our wisps and serpentflies. I rather build a special ability around the wisp like what crepus said.
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 13, 2006 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
BTW, Golemcrafter do you mind that I used your idea ?
Absulutley not! If you have new ideas for the Wisps than say and write it down. I glad to had that good idea!
By the way I got a new idea for powering up the Nagas a bit when the town is called Naga Temple already.
My suggestion would be the Naga Warden and the Naga Warlock. (to Baklava: I read one of you message that you would change the name of the Grand Sentinel to Warden. What would you say if I mix my and your suggestion? --> Naga Warden)
Now back to the creatures. Of course they should be Large Creatures and Spellcasters. My additional ability for the Naga Warlock would be the Twiced Magic or Sorcery: If the Naga Warlock casts a spell, it would affect another creature, too (reason: Naga has many arms <-- spells usually cane from hands). The second with the spell affected enemy unit is casually.
Oh yes! Naga Warden and Naga Warlock should be (in my suggestion) level 6 creatures.
Dwellings: Temple of Wizardy or Witchery / Temple of Omens or Sinisters
I'm waiting for reactions!
Fantasy is not your enemy. Use it to ocercome the reality.
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 13, 2006 01:45 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:48, 13 Oct 2006.
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Quote:
I think there should be one Lizardman hero in the Naga town. This guy, being the foremost among his brethren, will have the ability to let both lizardmen and crocs/basilisk gain one extra attack and defence for every third level, commencing with the first level, as well as giving said troops the enraged ability. Calling his hero special Reptilian Rage is the best thing I've got on my mind now.
I think we should have more Lizardpeople heroes, but this one sounds cool. He could be one of them.
About the quicksand ability, that's a great idea, but I think it needs to be a little simplified.
And about wisps, perhaps it would be best if the seers/prophets or whatever we called them can summon them as a special ability. Something like the Call Spirits of our shamans, but a little different.
Quote:
My suggestion would be the Naga Warden and the Naga Warlock. (to Baklava: I read one of you message that you would change the name of the Grand Sentinel to Warden. What would you say if I mix my and your suggestion? --> Naga Warden)
Now back to the creatures. Of course they should be Large Creatures and Spellcasters. My additional ability for the Naga Warlock would be the Twiced Magic or Sorcery: If the Naga Warlock casts a spell, it would affect another creature, too (reason: Naga has many arms <-- spells usually cane from hands). The second with the spell affected enemy unit is casually.
Oh yes! Naga Warden and Naga Warlock should be (in my suggestion) level 6 creatures.
Dwellings: Temple of Wizardy or Witchery / Temple of Omens or Sinisters
Hmmmm... Drop the "naga" prefix, and perhaps that might work. In that case, we have to choose between them and seers/prophets
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 13, 2006 02:15 PM |
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I see that you are having troubles with the level 7 creature in the Naga Town. Could somebody post a message where I can read all of your ideas?
(I got problems, too so don't arrest me because I write this letter... 
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 13, 2006 04:00 PM |
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Quote:
About the wisp, why not make it summonable from a Summoning Magic skill? I was a while ago thinking of some new creature that would once per battle throw a Thingamajig into the midst of enemy lines. This trinket would create a slight berserk in all troops surronding it, forcing them to attack the thingamajig instead of doing anything else. My thought was that instead of a thing, let it be the wisp that causes this commotion! Not until the wisp is dead/has lost all PH will those enemies be able to attack your more precious troops.
And even better if wisp has incorporeal ability! Hit points should be kept pretty low though, absolutely no more than hero spellpower.
Your idea is nice, but I'm still on my opinion that Wisps should be the level 1 creatures. Of course I don't want to force anything on you... Serpents were already in HOMM 3...Wisp would be new in the game...
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted October 13, 2006 10:32 PM |
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The name Warlock is an absolute no-no because the dark elf hero is a warlock. Twiced Magic is too simple a spell and not very outlandish. We are looking for something that would make everyone say WOAH or at least "thats cool". Our level 7 monster is the swamp wyrm. Everyone has agreed on the creature though the name is up for changes.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 13, 2006 10:52 PM |
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Dude, I can't believe I totally forgot about warlocks... I'm getting old... I'll be 16 in only 10 months 
You know that joke, when a grandma sends a grandpa to the supermarket to buy bread and newspapers, and says: "And don't forget any of those two". So when the grandpa returns with a toothbrush, she yells: "God damn it, you can't even remember two things in life! I can't believe you forgot to buy the toothpaste!"
Yes, I know, the joke ubersucks 
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Golemcrafter
Promising
Famous Hero
Unlimited Fantasy Master
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posted October 14, 2006 09:27 AM |
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Quote:
Our level 7 monster is the swamp wyrm. Everyone has agreed on the creature though the name is up for changes.
I agree, too but you are right: the name should be up for changes because even I don't like the name Swamp Wyrm. I think Dradwyrm would be good. For the upgraded level 7 wyrm I wuold give the dwelling name Sink of Iniquity.
I got many creature attributes in my mind. Perhaps yuo can use them on creatures or on dwellings names.
"mysterious, legendary, revenging, phantom, drake, cliff, ..."
We need an enraged creature, too!!!
____________
"Golemcrafter's creativity is
astaunding.[...]It must be
recognized that his mind was
able to picture every single
detail of his faction
accurately, something most of
us would be unable ... too long to display...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 14, 2006 10:33 AM |
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I thought we already have an enraged creature 
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 14, 2006 02:28 PM |
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Quote:
1 Serpent Nest > Serpent Eyrie
Well serpent eyrie sounds odd, but that's only because I've never come across a flying snake before Quote:
2 Shore Dwellings > Shore Village
3 Chapel of Vipers > Chapel of Cobras
4 Darkwater Marsh > Darkwater Quagmire
Great; leave Darkwater out from the upgrade maybe?Quote:
5 Tranquil Refuge > Tranquil Retreat
6 Flooded Altar > Shalassa's Altar
7 Underwater Cave > Underwater Brood
Submarine cavern?
A great selection!
Brood isn't really a dwelling name, since it refers to the inhabitants, not the `building`
Could "Maelstrom" be in there somewhere? "Mire" as well as quagmire somwhere maybe?
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This thread is pages long: 
