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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 19, 2007 10:14 AM |
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MMR won't work for other factions, no MoTW, no library, etc.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 19, 2007 10:46 AM |
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Quote:
MMR won't work for other factions, no MoTW, no library, etc.
you are wrong about this one ! Imagine a Phoenix + Puppet Master combination on a necromancer ... it is more devastating than Phoenix + Ressurection combination, especially since the necromancer has a much higher spell power and also alot more troops from the necromany !
Imagine is he starts getting ghosts how annoying they will be to be killed and while you try that, he had phoenix killing you , and also raise dead etc.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 19, 2007 10:54 AM |
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He will probably not have the destructive arsenal a wizard gets most of the time that is even better with motw. Also a wizard's mana doesn't end while a necro will have to cast motn every now and then with his low knowledge-he'll never last that long. Not to mention that just a few raise dead spells reduce the hp a lot. VERY vulnerale to seal of darkness...
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baniaque1
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 19, 2007 11:09 AM |
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MMR with wizard is more effective, due to the racial special counter spell ability - when facing fast creeper/spellcaster, like Caspar or a warlock, you can lock him leaving him without casting spells (what raise dead?), expert sorcery and Jhora`s special ability help a lot with that 
beside that - necro MMR is also very good, more points go in spellpower, mark of the necro gives him mana support and in the direct matchup, he has bad touch for opponent`s phoenix
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 19, 2007 11:28 AM |
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the necromancer fits this play style very well ... because he has Raise Dead (Wizard doesn't always get Ressurection) , MotN for mana , easy acces to Mass Slow, Mass Confusion which are very disabling spells , and also Puppet Master, Curse of the Netherworlds which will do some decent damage on all your troops, and so on.
Also he gets troops for free out of necromancy which is really great.
The mini arties are a little harder to get so fast... Destructive is a big gamble and only few spells work with MotW (Implosion , ice bolt , lightnign bolt )
I think it's a very nice duel Academy vs. Necro.
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted March 19, 2007 05:03 PM |
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Quote:
the necromancer fits this play style very well ... because he has Raise Dead (Wizard doesn't always get Ressurection) , MotN for mana , easy acces to Mass Slow, Mass Confusion which are very disabling spells , and also Puppet Master, Curse of the Netherworlds which will do some decent damage on all your troops, and so on.
Also he gets troops for free out of necromancy which is really great.
The mini arties are a little harder to get so fast... Destructive is a big gamble and only few spells work with MotW (Implosion , ice bolt , lightnign bolt )
I think it's a very nice duel Academy vs. Necro.
Agree. Actually, I have discussed about this with 86wyp. But we ends up with Necromancer have worse start than wizard until he has MotN skill (which requires several steps to get to). Do you have any idea how to solve this problem?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 19, 2007 05:12 PM |
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Not in this patch, it's one of their racial skills.
The problem is, you need some creature to deal the damage, unless you go for destructive+motn (very nasty, but weak in the end, since necros get almost no destructive boosts). Arch liches are definitely bes here: decay+mark of the necromancer for constant mana refueling. Vamps+motn work fine too, ofc, albeit vamps are a bit too weak to tank properly in the beginning, kinda slowing you down.
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted March 19, 2007 06:17 PM |
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Quote:
Not in this patch, it's one of their racial skills.
The problem is, you need some creature to deal the damage, unless you go for destructive+motn (very nasty, but weak in the end, since necros get almost no destructive boosts). Arch liches are definitely bes here: decay+mark of the necromancer for constant mana refueling. Vamps+motn work fine too, ofc, albeit vamps are a bit too weak to tank properly in the beginning, kinda slowing you down.
Oh this mean the new patch necromancer is very strong  but I don't have HoF 
I agree that necromancer will be weaker than wizard in the end. Actually, every faction will be weaker than wizard in the end because of artifier. But necromancer with motn can be competitive to wizard for rushing or even better since necromancer has more troops from necromancy. I have also discussed about this with 86wyp but we ends up with if necromancer can get early motn, necromancer might be better than wizard for rushing. Well, I don't know much about new version. Maybe there is more change that I don't know.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 19, 2007 09:28 PM |
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Quote:
Not in this patch, it's one of their racial skills.
The problem is, you need some creature to deal the damage, unless you go for destructive+motn (very nasty, but weak in the end, since necros get almost no destructive boosts).
Well I'd consider it only with icebolt. It has the highest potential if you plan to go with destructive(unless you are even luckier to get circle of winter) and you can learn if you have it early enough.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 19, 2007 11:02 PM |
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Btw, don't you think cold death should give you icebolt spell for free?
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iMPACT
Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 12:55 AM |
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i really don't like the magic tons that much like acadamy. even the tower town in h3 kinda sucked i thought. i'm not too good with magic though. in h5 i much like better the fortress and dungeon. good strong fighters are the best. i love the mgma dragon in fortess. awesome how he has immune to fire.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 20, 2007 01:05 AM |
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Quote:
i'm not too good with magic though. in h5 i much like better the fortress and dungeon. good strong fighters are the best.
Ehm they are not really good strong fighters. Compared to others of course.
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Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted March 20, 2007 01:17 AM |
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Quote:
Btw, don't you think cold death should give you icebolt spell for free?
Yes please, it's really stupid that it doesn't
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linkTouched by His Noodly Appendage
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 01:24 AM |
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Necropolis surely can use MMR. Dark and summoning are great for them. Actually in version 2.1, necropolis has to rely on magic to be competitive. Even dungeon may use MMR in some cases(destructive+summoning), if only can you take benefits from learning multiple schools of magics. In practice, I have also found out that one proper magic may be enough to turn over a game, and when you know you have own the key magic, you really don't need to learn more magics.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 20, 2007 01:26 AM |
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I'd really consider getting destructive this way. Maybe fireball with ignite too though that's a bit stronger. The thing is I hate possibly useless skills but giving the spells diminishes the mage guild's importance, especially in master of abilities.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 01:54 AM |
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Quote:
actually I lost against a necro , who played something like MMR... He was Nadir(Manes guy) , and since necro gets Mark of the Necromancer now, he had mana to support his spells... Having Summoning and Dark spells as native seems alot better to me than having Summoning + Light Spells.
Worst spell combination you can get is Arcane Armor + Curse Of The NetherWorlds + Summon Elemental + Blind ... which can have better results than the worst Light combo.
Also getting free troops while you build the spells in town is very good.
Yes, it seems reasonable that Necro could do ok with an MMR like strategy as well, but only because of MoTN. I recently played against a Necro opponent online that used an MMR like strategy. I was playing Academy and it was a very close game but my opponent won by using MoTN and raise dead combo to endlessly raise his army. He only had something like 10 spell points but he managed to never run out of them and actually cast as many spells as I did.
Some people have mentioned that MMR might be doable with Dungeon as well but I don't think dungeon would benefit from an MMR like strategy as much as if they maximized troops and also ofcourse developed their destructive magic on the side....even in a rush scenario.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 09:38 AM |
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Doomforge : of course it should, it should even give 50% ice bolt 50% circle of winter
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 09:42 AM |
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yeah.. since what's the point of that skill if you have no ice spell.. ~~
Btw, necro indeed needs to rely on magic now, and dark is not enough. But they lack the most important "buffs" (MoTW that makes summoning good, Empowered lucky spells that make destructive so good), so I wouldn't expect wonders. Unfortunately.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 20, 2007 09:56 AM |
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Quote:
Some people have mentioned that MMR might be doable with Dungeon as well but I don't think dungeon would benefit from an MMR like strategy as much as if they maximized troops and also ofcourse developed their destructive magic on the side....even in a rush scenario.
Dungeon runs out of mana in the blink of an eye and cannot go for intensive creeping as either academy or necropolis. Furies can only tackle slow tanky units and there are always ranged and swift walkers/flyers against which it can do little early without suffering casulaties.
Not that it cannot creep fast but the point of MMR is quite different.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 20, 2007 09:59 AM |
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Creeping with dungoen is tricky: You really need to buff your hero first to creep effectively. He needs some arties and a lot of SP to creep effectively! Sinitar is especially good creeper, although going vayshan is safer (a lot more power at start, guaranteed warlock's luck which is extremely important..). Sinitar proves much moer useful in the longer run, though. And he starts with the allmighty eldritch arrow, which is good for creeping ^_^
Still, Vayshan has enough assassins to kill most things. They posion and stall shooters, then defend, and your spells do the rest. Very good earlygame advantage - probably you'll get marginal loses. Sinitar early with 10 mana won't be as good, which leads to the problem of running to the well often. Consider dark ritual, since on a map with few wells it's actually better than wasting 1 day to get to the well and another to get back.
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