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yunless
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 27, 2006 05:31 PM |
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Tower. From what I've read, I believe you are jumping to conclusions too fast. Why do you keep saying that he's up against a weaker player? For all you know, that Haven hero user could have been good but still couldn't win MMR. Don't be hating and saying that it's all crap. I'm an all-round user and frankly, I prefer playing Jhora the most. Because she has such frigging high initiative.
One thing when you argue about magic is that you don't realise the inhuman speed at which Jhora takes her turns. You could Cleanse a curse but after 2 to 3 casts, Jhora will start getting 2 spells in where you may only get one.
The best way to decide this is still to duke it out. Meet up online and trash things out. Then we will know whether MMR > Archer zound'ing.
Cheers 86/89 (Can't rember the number =p)
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 27, 2006 07:10 PM |
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And just how do you get the unicorn horn bow on the map mystic's vale?
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 08:18 PM |
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86wyp: before you call towerlord an idiot, play vs him maybe.. Perhaps he doesn't know all the advantages academy may have there (I just began to uncover them , so I'm no academy specialist too.. yet  ), but he REALLY knows what he is talking about when it comes to haven. I play with my friend who has similiar strategy and it's extremely hard to stop.
By the way, can you tell us what is your average army around 6th week? I'm really curious.
And, what's wrong about taking gold from chests - man, did you play h3? There was one rule everybody experienced followed: "if you want to win, always take gold from the chests".. Perhaps you are a good player, but if so, you REALLY should know this. More gold means better army, which means much more than miserable 1 level more you can get by taking all the exp from chests. Just count! A level 16 hero that took all exp chests and level 15 hero that took all gold chests. The difference isn't big, just pathetic 1 level - so, say, 1 attack point more and expert logistics instead of advanced - but the gold difference IS big! 30.000 gold is enough to buy you one re-e-eeeealy powerful stack more, which will mean much more than puny +1level advantage. I hope you understand this now.
The strategy you present here isn't really new - multi-magic school combo was a good thing, but the game isn't balanced enough to make perfect use of it. The infamous dougal marksmen strategy towerlord describes is a major headache. Ok, so you do kill some of them with implosion, but first thing is you need LUCK to get the implosion whereas he doesn't need any luck because the strategy is 100% reliable - doesn't matter what spells he gets, it will always work. Sure, if you had 100% chance of getting deflect missle, you could call it a counter (although it still can be cleansed by enemy hero, which uses 50% initiative on it - yup..) but it's a lottery. You don't get it - you automatically lose.
regards.
ohh, by the way, what did you wanted to accomplish by showing us those gremlins beating bear riders? It's not impressive. With deleb, I beat 25 unicorns on the beginning of second week with 30 demons., nothing more. No, i'm not joking. All I need is ballista and tent skill. So, academy isn't exactly the best castle at powercreeping. Inferno is.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 08:30 PM |
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Quote:
And, what's wrong about taking gold from chests - man, did you play h3? There was one rule everybody experienced followed: "if you want to win, always take gold from the chests".. Perhaps you are a good player, but if so, you REALLY should know this. More gold means better army, which means much more than miserable 1 level more you can get by taking all the exp from chests. Just count! A level 16 hero that took all exp chests and level 15 hero that took all gold chests. The difference isn't big, just pathetic 1 level - so, say, 1 attack point more and expert logistics instead of advanced - but the gold difference IS big! 30.000 gold is enough to buy you one re-e-eeeealy powerful stack more, which will mean much more than puny +1level advantage. I hope you understand this now.
But you didn't get it. Academy doesn't creep with creatures as it cannot do as good job there as the other factions! Therefore taking experience early gets Academy going a lot faster than taking gold. In his examples the Academy had a smaller army than the opponent, but still manages to win.
I don't know whether the opponents were lesser skilled players, but surely the claim is interesting. Just by saying "Dougal-Marksmen is a better strategy" doesn't mean that this strat isn't a good one. Not until proven otherwise that is.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 08:35 PM |
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I never said it is bad. I only say that dougal is imbalanced. If two players on the same level meet in a game, dougal will win for sure.
If you don't take gold, you don't have an army. Plain simple. I really can't understand where a player who plays only on heroic difficulty gets so much gold when taking exp from chests. It's not logical. If you rush to capitol, you will be scouted, then rushed and you won't have enough force to stop it. If you don't, you will simply run out of gold. I run out of gold only by taking all the gremlins, archmages and obsidians gargoyles (for tanking) to powercreep on hard difficulty. Even if 86wyp is a much better player than me, it's still not possible for him to have 4 times the gold and resources I have at the time.
Ohh, by the way I mainly play on peninsula, which isn't very rich.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted November 27, 2006 08:57 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 21:05, 27 Nov 2006.
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I totaly agree with Doomforge.
If you have morale and luck you can beat Academy! The series are called "Heroes of Might and Magic", not "Heroes of Magic"!
Heaven can crush academy!
I'll say just one word - Training
And 86wyp to the 6 week necro have Vampire Lords, and Arh Liches, and can I see Kaspar's abilities?
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted November 27, 2006 09:34 PM |
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guys please ... stay calm and think a little ... look at that kaspar : no defense , only basic attack , no vitality , probably no battle frenzy and also no archery ... those skills are vital to a necro hero cause they really enhance those skell archers. any player who knows what he's doing would get them !
and also , think about that first pics ... he goes for fast mage guilds and later troops but his army is still much bigger than the army of his opponent . wtf ... isn't that strange ?
and his early game arma is 800 + ???? that means he has 25 + spell power .. again WTF ! his lvl 20 Jhora had only 12 spell power , and those troops seem smaller than the one with arma !
these pictures are at least to say so... strange ... and the oppenents of the academy forces seem to play without a strategy !
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Campaigner
Hired Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 09:50 PM |
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I don't understand how you manage to kill powerful mineguardians when you don't got magic nor creatures. I mean, you need creatures to beat mineguardians and start building. And without gold from chests I don't understand how you can afford anything that costs gold!
If I see a VOD by you guys where you succed with your MMR then hats off
____________
Sun goes up, sun goes down, I always win. Logical things in a logical world.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 09:53 PM |
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Quote:
I don't understand how you manage to kill powerful mineguardians when you don't got magic nor creatures. I mean, you need creatures to beat mineguardians and start building. And without gold from chests I don't understand how you can afford anything that costs gold!
I don't see how you survie with out taking EXP from chests, all my HoMM history ive taken Exp.. You need to lvl and money comes quick no need to skip the exp for that...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 27, 2006 10:00 PM |
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read my post once again and you will understand. 1 level more isn't a difference in the big battle after 1-2 months,(of course if you rush EXP will help you more.. but we don't speak about rushing here), the gold you've lost - is.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted November 27, 2006 10:20 PM |
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Quote:
guys please ... stay calm and think a little ... look at that kaspar : no defense , only basic attack , no vitality , probably no battle frenzy and also no archery ... those skills are vital to a necro hero cause they really enhance those skell archers. any player who knows what he's doing would get them !
Hmmm look the academy hero:
16 Level:
Expert Artifiker
Expert Sorcery
Expert Enlightenment
Expert Summoning Magic
Expert Destructive magic
And Kaspar:
13 Level:
Expert Necromancy
Advansed Dark Magic
Basic Attack
Advansed Enlightenment
Advansed War Machines
Only 3 Levels difference, but the academy hero is expert everywhere, and Kaspat only in Necromancy?
And the artifacts...
And there are some abilities, for the necro hero like Archery, Battle Frenzy, Vitality, Cold Steal... they are very important!
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted November 27, 2006 10:25 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
guys please ... stay calm and think a little ... look at that kaspar : no defense , only basic attack , no vitality , probably no battle frenzy and also no archery ... those skills are vital to a necro hero cause they really enhance those skell archers. any player who knows what he's doing would get them !
Hmmm look the academy hero:
16 Level:
Expert Artifiker
Expert Sorcery
Expert Enlightenment
Expert Summoning Magic
Expert Destructive magic
And Kaspar:
13 Level:
Expert Necromancy
Advansed Dark Magic
Basic Attack
Advansed Enlightenment
Advansed War Machines
Only 3 Levels difference, but the academy hero is expert everywhere, and Kaspat only in Necromancy?
And the artifacts...
And there are some abilities, for the necro hero like Archery, Battle Frenzy, Vitality, Cold Steal... they are very important!
so Vokial, you notice too , that there's something fishy about these saves 
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted November 27, 2006 10:30 PM |
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Quote:
so Vokial, you notice too , that there's something fishy about these saves
You are the academy expert
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 27, 2006 11:13 PM |
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If nothing else, the game has to be altered in some way because the unicorn horn bow is from the campaigns and it's in one scenario. It is NOT available on the map mystic's vale.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 28, 2006 01:20 AM |
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Edited by 86wyp at 01:40, 28 Nov 2006.
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Woke up!
......
Well, after reading all these replies, honestly say I am now VERY disappointed and a little 
There were seldom valuable information,or advice,or even friendly question,most of you were just throwing out ridiculous skepticism on me and some of you didn't even give respect to our players in those games. Why the hell do you think I spent so much time to waste replying to that MARKSMAN MASTER Towerlord?
I don't care if you don't believe me and I am pretty sure that only the trully experienced and respectful Academy players can fully understand this strategy. What I do have to declare is that each and every one of the players in those games are one of the BEST of us. Maybe even better than anyone of you(i said MAYBE).Do you know what a REAL multiplayer game between two experienced and smart players looks like? Have you ever face a good player using MMR against you? If no, then give yourselves a little break plz.And also think more before talking plz, stupid skepticism won't make you any better.
We welcome the players who want to talk and learn more about us and our strategies. But I don't have time for skeptics and trouble makers.
____________
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 28, 2006 04:10 AM |
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86wyp, I am intrigued. Are your battles just one on one, no computer opponents? Are there more than two human players? What is true multiplayer?
It isn't that your strategy is without merit, it's just that you make it sound like a fool proof guaranteed win and judging by what I know of the game mechanics this strategy will not win every single time...but it certainly might win some times.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Campaigner
Hired Hero
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posted November 28, 2006 04:31 AM |
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....86wyp - If you can't answer for the strange circumstances that people state then you have to understand that we don't believe you....
Why doesn't the Necromancer got defense with the associated abilities like TowerLord wondered?
And how can they afford the horrendous gold and resource requirements of Academy to get lvl 3 miniartifacts..?
Look, there's an easy way to prove you're right. Post a VOD where an Academy player gets atleast upgraded lvl 1-4 creatures, lvl 5 spells and a few miniartifacts in week 5 and we'll believe you.
____________
Sun goes up, sun goes down, I always win. Logical things in a logical world.
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 28, 2006 04:40 AM |
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Quote:
86wyp, I am intrigued. Are your battles just one on one, no computer opponents? Are there more than two human players? What is true multiplayer?
It isn't that your strategy is without merit, it's just that you make it sound like a fool proof guaranteed win and judging by what I know of the game mechanics this strategy will not win every single time...but it certainly might win some times.
In a real multi game, a good player will not wait till his/her enemy get enough time to prepare.In those games it's not that dungeon and inferno and necropolis players suck it's that their development are interupted by Academy which can develop faster.Using MMR, the Academy can creep very fast and get higher hero and more resources and more arites and everything.Then you just need to strike after Academy have got magic power and the enemy haven't got their advantages.500 marksman? 1000 sklies? all the skills and the abilities needed? You will find it almost impossible to achieve those goals when facing an experienced opposer, or they may have other tricks for you. BTW One of the might of MMR is that your enemy will never know what magic you have.That's why this strategy is very hard to counter.
No strategy can let you win every time. Especially strategies like MMR need many practice and research. It's not easy to make proper use of magic in a battle. If the tower didn't have Phoenix, or Implosion, would Academy automatically lose? No. There are lots of magic combos an tricks, many of them we don't know either.So is MMR risky? I think it depends on the player.
____________
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 28, 2006 04:53 AM |
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Edited by 86wyp at 04:55, 28 Nov 2006.
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Quote:
....86wyp - If you can't answer for the strange circumstances that people state then you have to understand that we don't believe you....
Why doesn't the Necromancer got defense with the associated abilities like TowerLord wondered?
And how can they afford the horrendous gold and resource requirements of Academy to get lvl 3 miniartifacts..?
Look, there's an easy way to prove you're right. Post a VOD where an Academy player gets atleast upgraded lvl 1-4 creatures, lvl 5 spells and a few miniartifacts in week 5 and we'll believe you.
You know, as I said it is a real multigame that means you may not get all skills you want before you are defeated or maybe you got defense but master of curses appears at the same time. On the other side, Academy almost only need basic skills plus motw, don't tell me spell skills never appear when you using Academy.And Academy will have higher hero level.
Why don't you just try MMR yourself on mystic's vale and then decide whether what i posted are true or not? I don't have to beg you believe me and I don't have that much time for it.
____________
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silentQ
Hired Hero
umm... yeah.... got milk?
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posted November 28, 2006 05:33 AM |
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i think every single faction is great if you know how to play it... if you have a killer strategy - you can beat anything agains everything...
i've won countless fight with my inferno vs academy.. it all depends what you have and how you use it... there's no such thing is bad faction here - everything is balanced in it's own way... you just gotta figure it out.
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