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| Thread: Regarding game balance.. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 26, 2007 11:11 AM |
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Aren't these patches just needed for human vs human games?
The AI is already weak enough...
So maybe we should focus more on problems in online (hotseat) games instead.
I do like those epic maps very much though (have a lot of them played...not only once...), and they mostly need a different kind of playstyle, especially if it is a well thought map. Offense and armorer are not that essential, but watermagic (waterwalk), or even sometimes eagle eye are more important.
Banning wisdom for might heroes wouldnt help too much. You don't need wisdom to be able to cast high level spells anyway...
But how about adding a bonus to the damage a spell will deal, like:
(Spellpower - Attack skill) * 50 = Bonus
Might heroes tend to have more attack than spellpower, that way their bonus will be ZERO, while a magic hero will mostly get a hugh bonus here. The "50" is just a suggestion...could be any number....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2007 11:40 AM |
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You can't do that in spelltraits.txt, though the idea is interesting. That's why I suggested the fixed bonus was reduced or removed but the multiplier was increased. It would definetely benefit the magic heroes. Increasing the cost of spells that might heroes tend to use would also help.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 26, 2007 11:51 AM |
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It would, however, raise the absurd situation where you spells would decrease in damage because you increased in Attack on level up (not to mention visiting mercenary camps etc.). That doesn't work for me.
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What will happen now?
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 26, 2007 01:50 PM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 13:52, 26 Jan 2007.
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Im for a more compromised approach..
Some spells need increase in base power damage, on the other hand spell bonus is needed as well since if it doesn't exist there s no point in taking advanced school mastery.
I think implosion, chain lightning, lightning bolt are good enough now (even tho they are of little use in long huge battles, they are usefull in start and early mid of a game), however spells like fireshield, magic mirror, ice ring etc. pretty much are of no use.
Perhaps changing the cost and levels of most useful mass spells would make might heroes think twice before casting them (for example making haste/slow lvl2 spell with cost 10 ..ant then increase cost to 15 for expert version)
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2007 07:44 PM |
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Quote:
School Changes:
----------------------------------
Dimension Door - (Fire, renamed to GATE)
Magic Arrow - (Air)
Anti-Magic - (Fire)
Resurrection - (Water)
Disrupting Ray - (Fire, renamed to SUNRAY)
Destroy Undead - (Water)
Remove Obstacle - (Air)
Dispel - (Air)
Visions - (Fire)
Mirth - (Fire)
Sorrow - (Water)
Misfortune - (Earth)
More posts were suggesting certain school changes, but there is a reason why the most important spells are all earth magic. The problem here is that not all heroes are able to learn fire or water magic. If Resurrection is moved into water magic many of the "main heroes" become useless. Hack is one of them.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 26, 2007 08:00 PM |
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I don't think resurrection spell is what Crag Hack uses the most.
Actualy, with his SP, i would use that spell VERY RARELY.
School changes were proposed since Air and earth are in big advantage over water and fire, and they were by no mean definite - it was just an opinion.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 26, 2007 08:54 PM |
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So we make haste and slow water spells.
Crag without mass haste and mass slow...nice challenge for a change..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted February 15, 2007 02:21 AM |
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Quote:
So we make haste and slow water spells.
Crag without mass haste and mass slow...nice challenge for a change..
But then water overpowered IMO
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Artas1984
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2007 10:24 PM |
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Did not read everything here, but i have to say:
Remember Heroes II!
Heroes III is already an extremely ballanced comparing to Heroes II.
Actualy i am on my way to release a mod that disbalances Heroes III and returns the classic disproportional order like Heroes II.
This is because i feel Heroes III needs reality.
Some example: expert sorcery increases the spell damage 15 % - this is absurd, it should increase 100 %, because if only 15 %, then what is the difference between a stupid barbarian, who can deal a 100 damage with magic arrow, and a mage, who can deal 115 damage with the same magic arrow when both have the same power skill?..
You see? The sorcerer does not look like "sorcerer" when only 15 % of the spell damage is increased comparing to some barbarian...
Another example: the green and red dragons have 180 HP and so on... Another absurd. The light armored human may have 10 HP as he weights about 70 kg and plus "armor" that let's say gives him 3 HP, like a pikeman. Swordsman has heavy armor, that for he gains 25 HP only from it. The gorgon as a bull could weight about 700 - 1000 kg, and so it does have 70 HP in the game.
Champion - a strong stallion weights 700 kg, the strong rider could be about 100 kg + both armor of horse and man ~ 150 kg. It fits in the game..
Now what about those absurd stats? How much could weight giant who's foot is about 2 meters long and that can slap a human under it? How about a 15 meter dragon, ha? How can it be possible that about a 7 - 8 ton (judging by the ancient terapods) dragon can have only 180 HP in the game?
There are more such stupid things which make "ballance in the game", but seem to be unnatural in reality.
So Heroes III is ballanced indeed, the bad thing is that this ballance is not always real.
And after all, Heroes III is my number 1 game of all time.
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted February 16, 2007 12:14 AM |
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Quote:
Did not read everything here, but i have to say:
Remember Heroes II!
Heroes III is already an extremely ballanced comparing to Heroes II.
Actualy i am on my way to release a mod that disbalances Heroes III and returns the classic disproportional order like Heroes II.
This is because i feel Heroes III needs reality.
Some example: expert sorcery increases the spell damage 15 % - this is absurd, it should increase 100 %, because if only 15 %, then what is the difference between a stupid barbarian, who can deal a 100 damage with magic arrow, and a mage, who can deal 115 damage with the same magic arrow when both have the same power skill?..
You see? The sorcerer does not look like "sorcerer" when only 15 % of the spell damage is increased comparing to some barbarian...
Another example: the green and red dragons have 180 HP and so on... Another absurd. The light armored human may have 10 HP as he weights about 70 kg and plus "armor" that let's say gives him 3 HP, like a pikeman. Swordsman has heavy armor, that for he gains 25 HP only from it. The gorgon as a bull could weight about 700 - 1000 kg, and so it does have 70 HP in the game.
Champion - a strong stallion weights 700 kg, the strong rider could be about 100 kg + both armor of horse and man ~ 150 kg. It fits in the game..
Now what about those absurd stats? How much could weight giant who's foot is about 2 meters long and that can slap a human under it? How about a 15 meter dragon, ha? How can it be possible that about a 7 - 8 ton (judging by the ancient terapods) dragon can have only 180 HP in the game?
There are more such stupid things which make "ballance in the game", but seem to be unnatural in reality.
So Heroes III is ballanced indeed, the bad thing is that this ballance is not always real.
And after all, Heroes III is my number 1 game of all time.
You're wright, it doesn't make sense. How about lich? Demi-god creature weaker then dead knight? Or dendroid weaker then unicorn? His like a giant tree-forest protector  And last(but not least) griffin weaker than monk!
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 16, 2007 12:29 AM |
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Keep in mind that the game is set in Heroes universe. Liches are not "demigod-creatures" for an example.
I quite like the creature stats as they are now.
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted February 16, 2007 12:51 AM |
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Yeah I know but... Again you must admit there are illogical things. Magic is the best example lightning bolt=ultimate,fireball(my favorite)=$h!t! And again I say: monk stronger that vampire?
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 16, 2007 01:00 AM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 01:02, 16 Feb 2007.
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But... is monk stronger than a vampire?
He is tier 5 but he is no match for vampire lords 
And about fireball, its not a creature stat, and i agree it should be stronger.
I enchanted it a bit in my mod.
It does 18 damage per SP instead of 10.
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted February 16, 2007 01:19 AM |
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Yeah you are wright vampires rulez! BTW where can I find your patch?
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 16, 2007 02:01 AM |
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It will be done soon
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted February 16, 2007 02:07 AM |
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Cant wait for it 
Meanwhile I'm still collecting tools and information for mod i'm planing to do(off-topic I know), Im not gonna give up
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 26, 2007 08:08 AM |
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This isn't a game of balance. Stronghold lacks in defense because it excels in offense. The whole point of the game is having different flavors and therefore different approaches.
As for Conflux, I have an easier time walking into any given Stores or Hold on week 2 day 1 with two Angels than I do with four Firebirds. Sure a Phoenix's Rebirth is something else, but it requires all their Pheonixes to die first to happen. And let's face it, the birds are paper dolls compared to other 7th level creatures. Possible exceptions being the Bone Dragon and possibly the Behemoth. If anything, the birds' breath attack is a bigger strongpoint than their production quantity. Ironic that even the source of people's complaints that Conflux is imbalanced is because a creature within it has certain strengths to compensate for certain weaknesses
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