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| Thread: The Best Shooter in HoMM5 - Round 1 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted February 18, 2007 10:27 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Poll Question:
The Best Shooter in HoMM5 - Round 1
Hi, this is discussion, from the new thread seria "The Best... in HoMM5", the aim in round 1 is to know which one is the best shooter (only shooter not caster!) vote here, post proofs, facts and other...
Main theoreticians here (I want to see your posts):
Doomforge
Alcibiades
Emilsn
Elvin
ZombieLord
TheDeath
sq79
GenieLord
Shauku83
dschingi
Many topics for "the best" we have here,... in HC. It is time finally to
use all proofs and facts, pasted by the "theoreticians" and all members...
Moderator's note: QP applied for starting a great group of threads which has resulted in much quality posting by other community members. Good job!
See also following threads: The Best Casters and The Best Tanks.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 10:45 AM |
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The best one you say.. umm. I'm not very sure..
I think the best one in term of maximum potential is still the marksman. Because you can make them do ~240 damage per week with just +20 trained marksmen and LVL15 dougal, and they come with
a) Squires so ranged attackers can't really OWN them
b) Inquisitors to buff them even if hero has to do something else (like cleanse dark magic)
c) Paladins to dispel when everything else failed
d) Precise Shot that makes coming after them really a bad idea..
e) Huge Knight's att/def and his access to most powerful light spells like ressurection. Also very easy to get morale
f) Divine guidance to counter their low initiative after they are buffed to oblivion
So, marksmen can be the best IF all those points are possible to get. "pure" marksmen, without squires, light magic, dougal and so on are quite poor. But I guess that's the way to analize it, since the game is never a simple comparison of several numbers.. all factors need to be analyzed to get a more genuine result..
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted February 18, 2007 11:12 AM |
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I agree with the majority, Succubus Mistress because of their chain shoot, through Marksmen can get extremely numerous with training.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 01:59 PM |
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You forgot some creatures:
Shadow Matriarch, Arch Mage, Druid Elder, Arch Lich and Inquisitor.
I would say it's the Arch Mage. Even he has low damage, he has Magic Attack.
You can hit so many creatures in one shot... Even you can hit your creatures, I think that it is very powerful ability.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 18, 2007 02:02 PM |
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GenieLord, You really should learn to read:
Quote:
(only shooter not caster!)
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 02:11 PM |
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Quote:
GenieLord, You really should learn to read:
Quote:
(only shooter not caster!)
But still, we can't ignore all the great shooters that can also cast!
The Preist and the Lich can't cast and they are not in the list. The Inquisitor spells are just bonus, basicly, he's shooter. Same thing with the Arch Lich.
It's like saying: Let's do a poll of the best flayer, except of large creatures.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 02:19 PM |
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Very easy: Master hunters. No comparison...
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 02:21 PM |
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Best unit against Confusion (90% or less)? Assassins! Their poison still does full damage even if less of them shoot. If you have 150, and 90% are confused, the poison will still do 150 each round (bypassing armor as well!).
I tiny bit off topic, I know, but interesting never-the-less...
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted February 18, 2007 02:23 PM |
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The best shooter depends on how good your defenses are, and how you use them. eg. taking out the Devils first with your Master Hunters and leaving the Succubi open to attack you might shoot you down. However, you might lose some other unit if you don't take the Devil out. there are unlimited possibilities.
I vote for master hunter. It deals more damage than any creature its level, and has double shot. Its a good level 3 AND a good shooter.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 18, 2007 02:50 PM |
bonus applied. |
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Let's see...
Skirmishers have one of the best specials which make them more of disrupters than damage dealers. That's good in a battle but you should depend more on damaging units such as marksmen for instance. Also a skirmisher without soldier's luck will rarely wound high lvl creatures.
Their no melee penalty is noted(after all they are more melee than ranged with so few shots) but their damage and initiative aren't that good.
Master hunters are certainly among the best. Rangers will easily get defence and luck and there are usually unicorns about. In short they have good protection from magic, better health and possibly ranged fire. Their damage would be a lot better with nature's wrath and archery but it's a long shot. Still with luck they are deadly and their warding arrows can save your hide. However they die too fast if a spell passes the defenses and should they get surrounded it's gg. By the time you upg them a part of them will have died...The unupgraded version lasts even less.
Skeleton archers. It was terrifying at some point but no longer. The necromancy won't get you that many and frenzy, cold steel, archery won't buff them as they used to. Generally not too threatening.
Marksmen. Still good but a mere shadow of their previous selves and older training. Doomforge described their potential pretty accurately so there is little left to say. BUT in these numbers they truly aren't so feared. Even by the time you get hall of heroes and gain +20 more per week. After all you'd rather train other units.
Assassins. Not bad but. You can't expect poison to do everything and they are better at melee than shooting. They do get some 'cheap' kills against high tier units.
M. gremlins. Love these guys. The best starting army(let's pretend we don't remember Ossir  ) upgradeable in day 2, numerous and with good tank(and magic) protection. Amazing initiative too and repair. Sadly they are not that good later on.
Fire elemental. Sure, if you get some they are nice, durable and damaging. With fire-shield. The task would be to get them and summon elementals is crappy too. Too slow to help against a big army, better in the beginning.
Succubi mistresses. I love these ladies! The demonlords lend them some good att bonuses and usually luck. Durable and with ranged retaliation which makes other units hesitant to attack them-thus an ensured survivability. One more reason for that is that chain shot may hit all with hellfire but it's a bit random. Bad against demons and fire elementals
Titans are easy to get, more durable than I would have guessed, good in shooting and melee but more importantly cool!  They get nice arties too which can make all kinds of modifications though more than two properties is usually out of the question. They are naturally the best shooter but they have the disadvantage to be large and easily blocked in round 1.
The candidates for me are the hunters, succubi and titans. Hunters are out as they aren't one to depend on. You may face an enemy and lose them while there are more to fight. And succubi aren't more useful in a battle than titans. At least the titans won't be confused and have some magics and arties(hmm consume artifact... ) to help them out of tough situations. Easily resurrected too. Even if the titans are blocked they are still a force and they can use call lightning against other shooters.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 04:13 PM |
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You didn't pick ONE Elvin. 
Yeah, the titans do have the advantage of no melee penalty... I also like the usage of magic (great against annoying ghosts and high defense creatures).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 18, 2007 04:25 PM |
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Yes I did! I just thought it better to mention with who titans have a close competition. (Also I occasionally make up my mind when posting about it )
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 04:28 PM |
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Titans would be nice.. for knights. ;p
They are wasting their potential in academy
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 18, 2007 04:32 PM |
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Titans with high stats? That would be fun to see! Or use!
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted February 18, 2007 04:37 PM |
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Titans
...are the best. You didn't say that we should take growth, cost etc into account
About the others, Elvin pretty much said everything.
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open source for an open mind
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 18, 2007 04:47 PM |
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I guess I overdid it. Next time I'll just focus on one.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted February 18, 2007 04:57 PM |
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No it's alright, keep writing anything you want. It's nice to read.
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open source for an open mind
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 04:58 PM |
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This is not an easy decision.. Marksmen could be something good… Teleporting them is something very nasty. Otherwise they are slow, and all other shooters will go before him. Even with Squires they cannot take a lot of damage because of Health of 10. When all elements from Knight are added, they can become a force. But also requires a lot of sacrifices for the rest of the army.
Titans are of course great. Level 7's come so late and I want my army running sooner than that. If all buildings were pre-built, Titans would win. But I am looking more to the usefullness in the game.
Oh, I’ll cut to the chase. I am having my decision made between Master Hunters and Succubus Mistresses. Succubus Mistresses have chain shot, effectively nearly doubling their damage. They are a support unit though, instead of Master Hunters, who are real killers. But where as Master Hunters die easily, Succubus Mistresses can endure over 50% more damage. So in ranged duel they can put up a fight against the Master Hunters, especially because of the ability of Ranged Retaliation.
But the most important part is the role in the army. Succubus Mistresses are kind of like support, as the enemy will be having a lot more to deal with at his end of the battlefield. So the Succubus can keep on shooting. And the secret that turns these creatures from support to quite heavy artillery is Hellfire. If you have 2 Stacks of Succubus Mistresses, you gate them both and have 4 stacks of them. Now you will have 16 changes for Hellfire to trigger every round. If the damage is around 100, and it will trigger in 30% of the cases, that will give you on average 480 extra damage per round 
Well, of course it takes time for the gated ones to appear. Otherwise there would be a big imbalanced stamp in the forehead of those infernal babes
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 05:26 PM |
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Another good point about the hellfire. But the same could be said for splitting master hunters and using warding arrows (especially with soldier's luck).
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 18, 2007 05:40 PM |
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I agree. Personaly, I put Succubi mistresses above master hunters, as a more flexible and durable unit. The hellfire-boosted chain shot acts as a indirect second shot, and gating is a free 50%-100% boost to their numbers, which is another double-damage thingy. Plus, demonlords enjoy easy luck, just like rangers. Summing up, quite good unit.
dfortae: splitting master hunters would be pointless, the effect is triggered less often when the target's HP exceeds yours.. and with splitting stacks, you decrease it even further to a marginal percentage.
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