Quote:Any ideas how to beat dragonmaster in newest version of the map (SOD)?
Where can we find this version with the azures, rust and enchanters?
Was this version made by Andrew Tanzi himself or changed by other mapmaker?
The last SoD version I played was with normal dungeon troops and the same set of artifacts (armor of the damned and pendant of dipassion but blind was possible). I remember coming with around 15000 horned demons + of course archangels, titans, AB's, elves, ... 7 stacks and losing nothing but with azures and their fear ability this would be impossible it seems without much luck. Of course it can be won but with casualties or hit and run heroes which I don't like.
Maybe convert all hydras and dragons into ghost dragons (immune to fear) but a pity it's a two-space unit. We cannot protect both AB's and ghost dragons with force field. And no air secondary skill means haste is less effective but depends the speed artifacts the Dragonmaster has. In my version he has only cape of velocity so it's possible that ghosts (14 + 3 + 4 + speed art) play before azures even with basic haste. Problem with ghost dragons is to reanimate them in the end (many spell points contrary to cloned archangels that resurrect).
Without blind it should be doable to exhaust Dragonmaster spell points and let one stack with low damage potential that will attack only the archangel clones. It was easier with the necromancers because of the vampire lords and their no-retal attack .
Lenght of the game with my SoD version was around 9 or 10 months so I suspect this one is much harder not only in the last fight but everywhere too no? since there is a 18 month time limit.
Azures fear isn't really that big deal, sure little luck depended, but his overall army strength is much higher, very powerful ranged units, lot more dragons overall and immunity to all crucial spells (blind, berserk, forgetfulness). Even suicide hero strategy is impossible because he is immune to berserk, and there is no 1 slot unit fast enough to abuse dragon breath attack to weaken each other. I think even in this thread author of map admitted dragomnaster battle is much much tougher than in older version.
I suppose the sacrifice heroes are meant to armaggeddon and/or implose (killing shooters and one hex units on priority). Resistance heroes are the best there. Once shooters are dead and minos too, a force field on archdevils and ancients, then haste on archies, force field, prayer, force field, and anti-magic followed by clones of ancients after wait. Just theory I certainly miss something since i don't have all stats .
problems if fear or blind cast soon on archies . So still luck required which I don't want . Maybe we have access to some anti-blind artifact? Or the dragon combo? ...
Ah yes, also maybe El Trueno is not the best hero for this fight also . The offense specialist having visited all power-ups and well equipped can be a monster with the ancients and the retal of ancients will most probably be enough to convince ennemy units to attack other targets first .
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
I started the game with this new version. Not much changes in the beginning compared to previous version (maybe the only change is the Dragonmaster fight?).
Took 3 cyclops and 1 Thunder and went to capture gold mine and take the gold on day 3. Then went back to town to wait for day 10. I was tempted to dig holes on the beach but decided to play as mapmaker intented . Day 10 leave town with some regrets . Captured 4 elf dwellings on day 7, then on day 1-3-1 with 64 elves went to capture Forest Keep. Small losses of hobgobelins and wolf raiders. Passed event giving free troops and went to the hut giving the movement artifacts and ended day on gem mine (stationed slow troops there).
Now a decision to take. I remember having played similar way previous time and not upgrading troops at hill fort but upgraded elves at town. Money saved is not a big deal, specially since we let gold mines unflagged on the way . But since we cannot capture the fortress towns before day 23 I decided this time to upgrade all troops.
Captured the first fortress town on day 23, losing 4 elves from the turrets vs a gnoll marauder (free slots 6 and 7 by single elves). If I didn't upgrade troops I could have hired some lizardman in near dwelling to attract that shoots. But then my strenght would have been less. A choice .
Next day the main fortress hero attacked me in town with all collected troops from other heroes (including De Gaulle), easy fight despite her earthquaque spell because I hided in town. Finally the rest is easy but long because of swamp terrain and no pathfinding. So
last fortress hero vanquished on 2-1-4 and pink defeated on 2-1-6.
For the last town fights of course I hired lizardman this time. Only take cyclops, thunderbirds, elves, dragonflies (for initiative) and lizards to be able to arrange armies for any case.
Next step, free second hero as soon as possible to make him work on swamp and flag all mines while El Trueno will go fight the towers...At least it's the plan . Priority is to learn the resurrection spell, the it will become much more easier. Just to keep in mind not to take too much troops with El Trueno and stacks numbers depending on resurrection power for better optimization. But that's for later ... .
Real challage would be to beat this map without reloading. For me it took easily few hundred reloads to finish it (300+ for sure). I heard there was some chinese guy that finished it without loading save file and he did that very fast (~12 months).
As for difficulty, swamp hero is quite easy, tower wasn't that bad either. First real pain will be rampart.
When it comes to replayability, this is ineed decent map. One thing about it could be better though, there is many event battles, which are often quite easy, and more of a formality. It hurts to fight all these battles all over again. Ideal map should be limited to either real battles vs heroes, or if it has to be battle against neutral creatures/event, only really tough ones. Otherwise it is boring.
Hehe, yes we can add challenge if we are in the mood why not . I didn't reload till here but it's only because I know how it goes, having played that map many times (playtest and normal play). But I don't want to force myself to be extremely concentrate either and of course I want to sleep too .
Once we have resurrection spell it will be easier because many combat tactics can be applied then that are not possible before. I lost very few troops vs the pink heroes because they didn't cast offensive spells due to their army advantage (preffered buffs on own troops instead and blind my strongest troops, preferrably those having waited) or army disadvantage later ( no time to act ).
A little video of gameplay on the adventure map. El Trueno must take a boat as soon as possible to learn "town portal" in Dwarvenheim. Since he doesn't have pathfinding he has to rely on the help of his friend
Gipilollas (spanish speaking people will understand the meaning of this name ).
Yes, I saw your video when I uploaded mine. It was in the menu of similar videos . Blind archangels is the best move I think, other tactics seem to give more pain to win (too much to resurrect).
Well, maybe there will be more video sharing tactics now that the path is open .
here is how I dealt with the antimagic garrison. Maybe someone can come with a better tactic, specialy the tactic Season (mapmaker of "the way home" map that finished UTB in 81 days). I know he played an earlier version with Dragonmaster only with dungeon troops and vulnerable to berserk and forgetfulness but still he had to beat this fight without magic.I am very interested in how he did that fight since he surely doesn't have much firepower at this stage ...
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 02, 2010 05:06 PM
81 days? Less than 3 months?
That's very hard to believe. I even think you need more days just to travel around all the locations without fighting, lol...
I always lose at least 2 weeks in swamp area, because either one of the pink heroes hides in a sanctuary, or he comes out of the dark and goes south towards my rampart town.
And the fight vs Angel Delight castle is a tough one too, especially because there are 1111 Archangels (besides 8888 marksmen and 4444 zealots and all other troops) from the very beginning. Doing that fight in month 2 is beyond my imagination....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Yes, I think he did it but not sure what version and if it was edited. Hope we will see some save.
Anyway, from what I saw in their forum he doesn't even capture all castles , just advances the quickest possible. In swamp he maybe captured 2 towns only, but since he has to visit the green tent I don't understand why. Also they play for record so they use all possible holes in AI behaviour. Siege castle where opponent doesn't move from the walls even if he can kill all because their archer strenght is much higher (bad programming). Let all troops die also except summonned elementals, also the opponent doesn't move from castle, just wastes shots and magic and when done, force field, resurrect crucial troops behind force field and game over even if long.
The fight vs the Dragonmaster for ex is made only with few troops, some stacks of dragonflies, one of them so the Dragons kill also catapult, then antimagic some devils behind force field, berserk reds that are placed near the blacks, forgetfulness, then the ennemi hero will use sacrifice and kill his own troops, in the ned only reds stay, the rest I didn't understand ...
I'am sceptic also, but there are maybe some nice tactics out of all of this . They use for example the clone two-space trick behind walls that Xarfax mentioned in this forum a while ago...
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
I think that tactics for a top score go through revealing map, looking at AI moves, reloading and not going blind. He will upload save, I asked for it. Chinese players, from what I've seen in the walkthrough in celestial forums, use many tactics I've never seen. The one with covering the battlefield with quick sands may have multiple uses surprisingly.
____________ Era II mods and utilities
Interesting link to that walkthough, I might try that map.
Btw is there more of these translated chinese maps? (maybe better than "way home")?
edit: After reading this walkthrough, I'm not surprised they can beat utb in 80 days. So many tricks vs AI is possible, also these guys don't fear ridiculously long battles (like killing few k of level 7 units with small pack of devils, or letting enemy high level hero to use his entire mana). If you have this kind of patience, even impossible fights can be solved.
This thread is pages long: 
posted September 18, 2010 08:14 PM
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