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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 10 20 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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mmontgomery
Hired Hero
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posted November 27, 2007 01:17 AM |
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Best Barbarian skills for a long game
Barbarians have one of the best ultimate abilities in the game: Absolute Rage. Believe me, playing a Barbarian army with Absolute Rage and Bloodfire is really like playing an entirely different army. Every unit starts with its level 2 rage ability already triggered, or if you have the Pendant of Mastery and Bloodfire, each of your units start with its level 3 rage ability triggered. This means (among other things) that Goblins attack without retaliation, Centaurs do max damage, Warmongers get unlimited retaliation, Sky Daughters get 4xSpellpower (chain lighting is devastating), Chieftains get double attack, and Cyclops gets Fear. Futhermore, each unit starts with so much rage, their hit points are effectively TRIPLED!
If you have time to get to this ability, then you should orient your character development this way. If the map you are playing on has the Memory Mentor that lets you reconstruct your character, you can start with some different skills, then reorient for absolute rage around level 25. Frankly, if the map does not have a Memory Mentor, you probabably should not try for Absolute Rage, regardless of how useful it is, since it is likely that you will be forced into a pick that bars Absolute Rage.
Required for Absolute Rage:
Expert War Machines - Catapult -> Goblin Support -> Brimstone Rain
Expert Leadership - Recruitment -> Battle Elation -> Divine Guidance
Expert Attack - Battle Frenzy -> Stunning Blow -> Excruciating Strike
Expert Blood Rage -> Memory Of Our Blood, Might Over Magic, Powerful Blow ==> Absolute Rage
If you are going to go for Absolute Rage, you must have these skills.
If not going for Absolute Rage, then:
Expert War Machines - Ballista -> Triple Ballista, First Aid
Expert Leadership - Recruitment -> (Aura of Swiftness, Battle Elation**)
Expert Attack - Archery -> Flaming Arrows, Tactics
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Other skills
Expert Enlightenment - Bloodfire!!!, Battle Lore -> Intelligence
Expert Logistics - Pathfinding -> Warpath -> Snatch
OR Pathfinding -> Death March
OR Scouting -> Silent Stalker
OR Scouting -> Swift Mind
Expert Luck - Resourcefulness -> Spoils Of War, Soldier's Luck
Expert Defense - Evasion -> Last Stand, Vitality or Protection
OR Vitality -> Defend Us All -> Preparation
Expert Shout - Shout of Rage, Shout Training -> Mighty Shout
Shatter skills deserve special mention. In my opinion, the only shatter skill that is potentially more useful than one of the skills above is Shatter Dark. First Aid can help a little, but the lack of any other kind of cleansing for Dark Magic spells can be devestating against Puppet Master, Mass Confusion, etc. So if your opponent is using Dark Magic, Shatter Dark can be useful. As to the others, Summoning spells can be addressed by just killing what was summoned. Destructive spells are mitigated by 70% damage reduction from rage. Light magic spells like Mass Haste, Mass Righteous Might, and Resurrection are not the same level of problem as Puppet Master. The problem with taking any shatter skill with Absolute Rage is my priority would be to get Absolute Rage, then Basic Enlightenment, and Bloodfire. This is 27 skill points. It is unlikely you are going to be getting enough skill points in addition to this to get any kind of meaningful Shatter Dark going, since you need 3 skill points for Expert Shatter Dark to keep Puppet Master from affecting Cyclops.
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Comments:
Bloodfire is an amazing skill, which multiplies every rage event, including Absolute rage, Battle elation, and Shout of Rage. For example, Bloodfire causes Absolute Rage to give 750 rage points at the beginning of comment, Bloodfire makes Battle elation rage increase to 75, and Bloodfire makes Shout of Rage effectively do 3x rage, instead of 2x rage.
Triple Ballista has good synergy with Flaming Arrows.
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For Absolute Rage, best you can do after the required skills is to get Enlightenment. Enlightenment is a MUST for Bloodfire, which amplifies Absolute Rage by 50%. This leaves one skill slot open. I generally use this for Logistics, so that my hero can get around more quickly. Luck is a contender, particularly on a resource poor map, where one might trade logistics for luck. If you are Gotai, consider trading Logistics for Shout, so that you can keep Shout of Rage and Shout delay-30% to complement Gotai's native ability. Of course, you may decide that Absolute Rage and Bloodfire are enough rage, and getting to more places faster with Logistics is more important that the extra rage Gotai gives from his shouts. If you face an opponent with high level dark magic skills, you might consider trading Logistics for Shatter Dark.
If you don't go for Absolute Rage, probably the best build is:
Expert Blood Rage -> Memory Of Our Blood, Might Over Magic, Powerful Blow
Expert Enlightenment - Bloodfire!!, Battle Lore -> Intelligence,
Expert Logistics - Pathfinding -> Warpath -> Snatch
Expert Luck - Resourcefulness -> Spoils Of War, Soldier's Luck
For the last two slots, there are a few possibilities:
War Machines, Ballista, Triple Ballista, First Aid
Expert Attack - Archery -> Flaming Arrows*(good synergy with triple Ballista), [Tactics or Battle Frenzy]
Expert Leadership - Recruitment -> (Aura of Swiftness, Battle Elation**)
Expert Shout - Shout of Rage, Shout Training -> Mighty Shout
Shatter Dark - [pick your favorites]
Build Priorities
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I try to get Bloodfire as early as possible. It can make a big difference, even in the early game. Memory Of Our Blood and Powerful Blow are also good early picks.
I personally like Logistics early, since it allows me to expand faster.
I also like Luck early, especially for resourcefulness and spoils of war, which can make a big difference in the size of army you can field. You can also try to get a secondary hero with Resourcefulness, and just have it shadow your main hero, picking up resources. Given the limitations on your main character, this might be the best approach.
However, all three of these preferred early skills are not on the path to Absolute Rage. But realistically speaking, if you don't have the Memory Mentor, I would not even try for Absolute Rage, and if you do have the Memory Mentor, you can trade in your Luck or Logistics when your character is level 25 or so, after you have gotten a lot of benefit from the skills.
My next early preferred skill is War Machines, epecially First Aid. This can remove some dark magic curses, poison, and some other negative effects. It also can help reduce casualties from attrition as you are gathering, since it heals up to 300 damage and can raise dead. This can be handy to keep most of your army alive when you have to attack range strikers or spell casters. I like the fact that the healing is only based on the War Machine level, unlike the Ballista, where the power is based on Hero attack+knowledge. Once your hero's attack+knowledge gets high enough, Ballista and Triple Ballista is good to get.
Your other skills are based more on your playing style. Aura of Swiftness is a great skill. So is Flaming Arrows, especially with Triple Ballista. Shout of Rage is also great. And Shatter Dark may be critical for certain situations. You will have to judge which of these skills to round out the skill set based on your particular situation.
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 27, 2007 02:12 AM |
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That's really my point of view too. These are unique skills unlike any other factions. All other skills have use against creeps (you could argue shatters have some tiny value against creeps, but for the most part irrelevant), and do not require you to guess.
That combination of having no value (or very little) until a hero fight, and then only if you guessed right.. should mean that these are extremely powerful.
I think people are only considering when a shatter works out.. IE they're thinking of how it worked against a hero who had expert in the field they went for shatter. But you have to consider the creeping aspect and the chance you guessed wrong and how you get almost no value at all in those situations. To even out the times when it's worthless, it should be extremely powerful when it is against a hero with it.
I think it is already effective enough against destruct and summon because lowering spell power, increasing init, etc along with bloodrage greatly reduces the amount of damage you'd take from these. But for light and dark, I just don't think it does quite enough considering the chance you're taking that you're using wasted skill points to take them.
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted November 27, 2007 05:10 AM |
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I guess the moral of the story is that if you're going against a:
Warlock, Shatter destruction probably is a great choice even with just a point or two will seriously weaken the destructive power (and help with casting creeps a small bit).
Wizard, Knight or Necro: Shatter Dark and large amounts of Witch Doctor Goblins is your only hope of not being blinded/frenzied/puppetmastered to death.
Shatter Light and Shatter Summoning would not be as useful as a Might perk like Luck, Morale, Attack or Defense.
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Edwin_Yang
Known Hero
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posted November 27, 2007 05:53 AM |
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but there is a bug in the luck of barbarian:the damage of the spell is reduced by 5% regardless your luck.so I think it is worthless.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 28, 2007 07:30 PM |
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Edited by Lesij at 19:43, 28 Nov 2007.
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Unfortunately I don't have TOTE yet...
But as I am reading more and more of your reviews it looks like Ubisoft made the big mistake which was some time ago mentioned in making faction contest:
Racial shouldn't fill the gaps in creatures stats and abilities, but it should make them more powerful (it was when i made my first steps in Ninja faction and made hi-att low-def race with ability to evade every attack- something like Incorporeal for everyone but less efficent)...
I think, that if anyone finds orcs while creeping- they deal with them immidiately...
Am I right or not?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 28, 2007 07:49 PM |
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Some are easier to deal on the adventure map than others but I don't really mind. What I still dislike is when I get arcane archers in a crucial mine because it's just hard to avoid casualties. To make things worse they have above average initiative so they usually play first 
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 28, 2007 07:50 PM |
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Quote:
but there is a bug in the luck of barbarian:the damage of the spell is reduced by 5% regardless your luck.
Can you prove it?
This is the line I see in the rpstats file:
<LuckOfTheBarbarian_MagicProofPerLuck>0.05</LuckOfTheBarbarian_MagicProofPerLuck>
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 29, 2007 02:25 AM |
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Quote:
Unfortunately I don't have TOTE yet...
But as I am reading more and more of your reviews it looks like Ubisoft made the big mistake which was some time ago mentioned in making faction contest:
Racial shouldn't fill the gaps in creatures stats and abilities, but it should make them more powerful (it was when i made my first steps in Ninja faction and made hi-att low-def race with ability to evade every attack- something like Incorporeal for everyone but less efficent)...
I think, that if anyone finds orcs while creeping- they deal with them immidiately...
Am I right or not?
No, they're pretty powerful without rage too. I mean you could play them another hero and if you managed to get spells via a second town or some crap.. they'd be fine. The rageless stats for the creatures aren't bad though, and I do consider the 3 rage bonuses to be very powerful.. not just things that bring them up to par. I think it plays more like using light magic than just bringing poor creatures up to respectable levels. But the damage reduction is significant so giving up both that, and the bonuses from the rage levels would be a mistake imo.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 29, 2007 01:33 PM |
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Like Maulers with 12 HP for a level 3?? Funny that Arcane Archers have more hp than these melee creatures. Sky Daughters? Please! Level 1 creatures are generally easy but in that regard goblins are level 0. Those all are way under their level when creeping. The others I don't mind THAT much but Sky Daughters are upgraded level 4!!! (they shouldn't appear as neutrals at all or come with goblins or have 4 extra mana)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 29, 2007 04:29 PM |
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You can't complain about the goblins, they offer great creeping along with frenzy and their rage. Trappers are just awesome.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted November 29, 2007 07:07 PM |
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Yep, and the trappers' special is great to slow down enemies, while the centaurs are shooting them. Anyways, why would you use off-race heroes for any faction? Not to mention that barbarian heroes' overall quality is quite good. If you don't believe me try Kragh, it's nice to see your hero killing 4 crystal dragons before the battle starts ...
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 29, 2007 07:57 PM |
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Quote:
You can't complain about the goblins, they offer great creeping along with frenzy and their rage. Trappers are just awesome.
Lol, I was talking about them as neutrals... In your army they are great! As are sky daughters (even though I prefer earth daughters) and Maulers. Rage and the abilities that can be used only in conjunction with other troops are wasted on neutrals...
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2007 08:01 PM |
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As was talking about the same thing...
With rage orcs are just tremendous power, without it they just S-U-C-K.
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 30, 2007 03:36 AM |
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Goblins are 10 gold. Upgraded they have above tier 1 abilities imo.
Maulers only have 12 hps, yes, but the other option has 20.
Again, I don't see it. I think the rageless orcs are ok, not an underpowered faction that's only taken up to par through rage.
Shaman are hybrids. Casters and melee, not great at either, but still above average to me.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 30, 2007 05:05 AM |
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I guess you are addressing me because you referred to the 12 HP of Maulers... I was not saying that they are an underpowered faction without Rage, but that as neutrals they are the worst! What good is Goblin Trapper without a shooter next to it? What good is Sky daughter without decent creatures to haste or goblins to gain mana for Chain Lightning? Lastly, Maulers do need the rage to survive... Heck Master Hunters have 14 HP for crying out loud... now tell me is there a difference at all if your crucial mine is guarded by Master Hunters or Maulers?
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 30, 2007 09:02 AM |
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Yah, but I think that was a condition existing way before the orc faction.
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Edwin_Yang
Known Hero
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posted November 30, 2007 10:40 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
but there is a bug in the luck of barbarian:the damage of the spell is reduced by 5% regardless your luck.
Can you prove it?
This is the line I see in the rpstats file:
<LuckOfTheBarbarian_MagicProofPerLuck>0.05</LuckOfTheBarbarian_MagicProofPerLuck>
sure it is..I check it myself. the spell damage redurced by 5% even if you got 5 luck. so I think this skill would not help you a lot.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 30, 2007 10:45 AM |
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maulers may not be durable, but the first point grants them powerful bonus to hp. Besides that, they hit really hard, and with their specialist (which also starts with ballista so he's my natural choice anyway) they are really good. Warmongers offer nothing besides high HP.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 30, 2007 10:49 AM |
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Maybe taunt but they must be placed so that the enemy unit will pass adjacent to them. Only seen it work a few times but I didn't know how it worked previously 
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted December 01, 2007 05:23 AM |
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Yes but for the maulers to be viable you NEED the first level of blood rage and the specialist, With warmogners you can go with another specialist (id choose the slayer specialist) and they can actually risk attacking without waiting for a warcry or the ultimate.
Btw its hard to tell if taunt worked or not. it doesnt tell you after all.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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