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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 01, 2007 01:49 PM |
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It does tell you in the combat log. And the fact that the Orcs in question get a punch in the face says a lot too  .
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Jukeboxhero
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 03:38 AM |
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I'm just curious.
Since one of the Strongholds main problems is that it needs better anti-magic, and one never knows what "Shatter" you'll need until you know what race the enemy is, what if you could purchase all of these "shatters" or other anti-magic abilities at the mage guild...or equivalent building within stronghold.
Also, is it just me or is it impossible for Sky Daughters to cast chain lightning unless you have goblins in your army so she can sac them and gain extra mana? Otherwise, it's always greyed out because it costs more mana than the daughter has in her pool.
Well, anyways. I've played only demo so far. I really like the stronghold faction a lot. I hope they have any issues fixed soon. Hope I can find a way to survive against Dark Magic too.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted December 06, 2007 05:12 AM |
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Quote:
Also, is it just me or is it impossible for Sky Daughters to cast chain lightning unless you have goblins in your army so she can sac them and gain extra mana?
Sacrificing goblins is one way to get enough mana (though it's time consuming). Another way is to get them up to rage level 3 (also time consuming)...a 3rd option is to pick up the skill refined mana from the shatter light tree.
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Jukeboxhero
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 11:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, is it just me or is it impossible for Sky Daughters to cast chain lightning unless you have goblins in your army so she can sac them and gain extra mana?
Sacrificing goblins is one way to get enough mana (though it's time consuming). Another way is to get them up to rage level 3 (also time consuming)...a 3rd option is to pick up the skill refined mana from the shatter light tree.
Actually, for the FIRST casting of CL, you just need one turn to get your mana up. I guess I've only cast it once per battle. So how many turns does it take to get enough mana after the first casting? Also, is there a way to sac more than one goblin at a time? Or a way to get more mana per Goblin sac'ed?
Last but not least, I was wonderin what people thought about having Shatter Magic or some other anti-magic ability in the Mage guild?
Even if you have only pick one or two...I think it would be more conveinent to get it there, once you realize what you need
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2007 04:29 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by Elvin at 20:25, 10 Dec 2007.
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I had some more games with stronghold and the last one was pretty enlightening. The orcs have nothing to be afraid in the first weeks if played to their full potential, not even monstrous high tier stacks. I'm sure I have already praised their creeping swiftness so I'll leave a few brief points:
Be sure to get Attack. No matter how tempting retribution sounds if the game can be finished within 4 or 5 weeks leave it in favour of flaming arrows. The hero's modifiers give the ballista +60% boost which is second only to inferno's 75% and it is a shame not to take advantage of your massive attack against zero enemy defense.
Otherwise retribution with tactics and aura of swiftness is a deadly combo, orc armies can just wash away the opponents and have few losses to the point it gets scary.
The second and most crucial skill is of course warmachines. It's pretty much a no brainer, get triple ballista and first aid tent. At first I did not care much for the tent but I was totally wrong, it is essential both for early creeping and dispelling dark curses later. You could get stopped by a lucky confusion cast by genies but not with the tent. The fact that the centaurs have minimal hp makes resurrection so much easier, each healing shot brings 17 centaurs back.
Then 2 skills remain, both very helpful.
I am talking about leadership and luck. I still feel that leadership with aura of swiftness and battle elation is of more use to the orcs than luck but these will not be needed early.
Early your ballista takes care of most things so you will want just 2 levels in leadership for the morale bonus or luck. Morale will save your hide as one more shot by the centaurs can make or break your game. Luck is less reliable that morale early.
Luck is not so much about your centaurs but for the ballista. With 3 shots it's almost a guarantee that you'll get some lucky shots in each battle. Also in battles with lots of tier 7 you NEED luck if you are to not lose a single Cyclops. I have often saved cyclopses because they got a lucky hit.
Two rarer occasions are shout and enlightenment. If the map is suitably epic get them and you will not regret it. Faster warcries means harder to bring down orcs and bloodfire from enlightenment will ensure that the first blow you get will be much lighter. BUT they will not be of much use early, focus on other things.
You will need shout in battles with tough monsters where you will be casting call of blood or fear my roar.
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As a rule of thumb, you just want attack/warmachines for creeping , the rest are a bonus and be sure to pick a shatter according to your opponent.
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Things can change according to your main. More important heroes I consider Kragh, Haggash and Telsek. I still don't like Telsek much, starting with ballista perk is a good advantage but I prefer creeping with centaurs and goblin trappers. Somehow they die less often than warriors that will have to engage the enemy until the ballista becomes capable to finish battles on its own.
The basic difference between the first two is the emphasis on units. Haggash already has many centaurs and her goblins will not be enough to warrant getting battle frenzy early. She’s better off getting archery and flaming arrows straight from the start.
Kragh on the other hand can effectively use goblins for attacking tough units as squires even if he will still value his centaurs to do most of the job. He is better against melee units while the centaur lady against shooters since her centaurs will have a better initiative and stats. Even if they don’t play first they’ll still be in a better position than Kragh’s but at least he can counter that with pounder-stunning blow combo.
He is probably the only hero that is worth it to take excruciating strike. Yes flaming arrows are more efficient but powerful blow on centaurs and normal excruciating attacks can thin the high tier crowd pretty fast. Note that even his free attack can deal double damage this way plus give time to your units to act first since he will have stunning blow.
Some have said that his special is useless because in lategame you will be using warcries all the time. That is half-right for two reasons: One is that it will have helped you a lot during creeping or a rush by then(something I have successfully done and the opponent could do nothing – 5 hydras per hit in week 2  ) and because you will still have to perform the melee attack during combat, mainly to delay enemies from acting first if you don’t have the roar. And when only your cyclopses remain, thinning down his army with the blow will help a lot – By then your mana will be gone anyway.
Some replays
You probably know the basic idea for early creeps so I’ll post the trickier ones. Killing horde of tier 3 is possible during the first week though hunters and ghosts will be risky unless your ballista is strong enough. Avoiding to pick other new skills than attack will make warmachines pop up pretty soon, just wait for it.
After week 1 I get some shamans to help with slow/haste, they are very good support.
Horde of ghosts
Just surround your centaurs with goblins and shoot away. Better to have leadership and if your centaurs miss, wait until it’s their turn and don’t attack with the hero. Since there cannot be more than 2 continuous hits/misses attack with the hero or wait to make sure your centaurs will hit. You’ll see what I mean.
Lots battle griffins
These birdies can be annoying because they can dive so you cannot stay in one place and cover. Wait until all have dived and then head for the corner. The goblins will follow to cover the centaurs but don’t end their movement close to the centaur’s earlier position. Then things get easier.
I would not dare to attack imperials until later.
Lots of liches
That was a very close match although I lost almost nothing. I had killed lots of inquisitors in the previous turn but liches are far more damaging. Make sure you will have the tent, a ballista and goblin fodder to block them.
Lots of nightmares
Another tough battle for lvl 10. Have at least 5 single goblins, use traps, exploit the nightmare’s large size to avoid being hit by many stacks. If you have a tent you can get through this.
Lots of shadow dragons
Yes I am awesome  I did not believe it was possible to kill 26 dragons on week 2 day 5 but keep in mind that I had 2 towns and an external centaur dwelling. Was lvl 17, had 127 centaurs, 2 shamans, 2 goblins and a lot of luck here the goblins are moving obstacles(be sure to have unupgraded goblins you may not be so lucky as to play first) and the shamans slow the dragons, then haste your centaurs. Yay for Haggash’s special!
Lots of archangels
I am on a killing spree! 53 archangels are one heck of an opponent but 13 cyclopses do not fall, the tent will ensure none of them dies. First turn you are attacked by 1 stack and while you beat the living daylights out of it the others resurrect it back. In the meantime your ballista kills a few per round. At first I thought to have all my goblins behind cyclopses for horde’s anger but it was no use after all. Just have a few shamans for slowing that will also protect the ballista.
[I got castle with cyclopses on first town, cyclopses with no fort in second and captured a Cyclops generator in week 2.]
Lots of titans
I have no idea how I managed to keep all my cyclopses alive against 38 titans but it was satisfying On the second level of rage I gained frightful aura making nearby titans have -2 morale. That bad morale in the end was a relief - one more hit and the top Cyclops would be killed, my tent was out of shots. Naturally I had good morale and luck, defense could not help since they cast call lightning all the time.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2007 05:42 PM |
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What map was this? And what difficulty? And in what week did you fight the titan battle?
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 10, 2007 07:10 PM |
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Excellent overview Elvin! YouAreAwesome!
I've been playing orcs recently, and since I'm not the kind of defeat-everything-as-soon-as-you-can-and-hopefully-you-won't-have-bad-luck player, I'm impressed by these replays. The only thing I like to add is that creeping imperials should be no problem, if you upgrade your centaurs, at least they weren't any threat for me.
Edit:The archangels save can't be downloaded due to some passwords problems.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2007 07:42 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 20:26, 10 Dec 2007.
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Thanks  To be frank I normally would be hesitant to attack the dragons and definitely would leave the titans alone, it was an experiment. I built lvl 2 warcry shrine but did not get fear my roar, the dragon fight would have been easier. I can't seem to access speedyshare at the moment, I'll upload the save again if it does not work.
@okrane
The map was Lets fight(TotE version) on hard. The titans were one or two days later than the archangels so around end of week 3 or week 4. Give it a try
Edit: Fixed the archangel link.
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 10, 2007 08:58 PM |
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Quote:
Thanks To be frank I normally would be hesitant to attack the dragons and definitely would leave the titans alone, it was an experiment.
Just as I expected.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2007 09:49 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:52, 26 Dec 2007.
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Thought I'd test it again out of curiosity and the dragon's @ss is mine!! This time half of them were red dragons but still lost no centaurs. Also I got a replay against whitebear riders.
Lots of dragons - upgraded
Horde of whitebear riders
Edit: Just noticed something shiney on the previous post, thanks
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Jukeboxhero
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 10, 2007 10:10 PM |
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Awesome Post, Elvin!
Thanks a lot for that basic strategy guide...I think it should be added to the official User-Created Strategy Guide that was made for H5. I can't wait to see it updated with all the cool strategies mentioned in this guide. I think this will help me a lot too, because I seem to be a slow creeper..and I probably don't use enough strategy..
I just have a few questions for you too.
1. How many heroes do you typically get and how many do you level beyond level 1-3 or so?
I think it's good to have at least 2 decent heroes, your main and one that's a few levels lower. Perhaps have one to kill scouts and go fight smaller creeps guarding mines or whatever, while your main advances on the map and fights bigger stacks that are guarding more important objects or tries to capture towns/kill other main heroes.
Also, what different Duties do you give to heroes?
Here are some I think I may try implementing when I play the real game (I've only played the demo so far). A lot of these come from previous strategies with H3.
1. Clean-up/Collector: This hero basically follows in the tracks of your main hero and collects resources/artifacts/gold after the hero clears a monster stack. I think this saves valuable 'steps' that the main doesn't need to take, unless he's getting exp from a treasure chest. Also, I tend to keep one near any town to collect any resources from locations that renew on a weekly basis (like mills, gardens, etc.)
2. Scout/Reclaimer.
This Hero is usually equipped with a small number of the fastest availble unit (I guess Wyverns for Stronghold..maybe some centuars?) and scouts ahead of the hero, as well as going back to reclaim mines captured by the enemy..or capture un-guarded mines.
3. Heroes assistant. I haven't used this strategy much yet, but someone told me that they have a hero that follows the main around and carries all the troops except for the fastest stack. Of course, once he gets to a group of monsters to fight, the assistant transfers his army over. I don't know how well this works in heroes. It seems like a lot of effort..but I'm pretty sure movement is determined by what units the Hero has at the beginning of the turn. So, if he ends up fighting a battle every turn, it doesn't seem this strategy would be worth the effort.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2007 10:12 PM |
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imba
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 10, 2007 10:35 PM |
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@Jukeboxhero: hero movement does NOT depend on creatures' speed in Heroes 5.
@Elvin: Indeed nice work, your QP is well earned.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2007 10:48 PM |
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I dont see a "Stronghold is overpowered" thread around, maybe someone should start one.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2007 11:08 PM |
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I usually have a superhero with a few secondaries. One like a lieutenant to do a little creeping and taking towns. I usually creep everything with hero but some I leave behind to get the most xp in the least amount of time. Some treasures are just not crucial to waste my movement to go get them and I'd rather return to town or go break through some guardians fast. This hero will be at a low level as even the chests I get in gold and will take any task that requires a little fighting as guarding a town, capturing one, defeating a scout etc.
Then one hero for scouting and one for following the hero around to pick up stuff. After their task is done they return to visit windmills or chain units to the main.
And no your movement is not affected by the units' speed.
Nice one samiekl
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 10, 2007 11:35 PM |
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Quote:
I dont see a "Stronghold is overpowered" thread around, maybe someone should start one.
It's nice to see that we got from the "stronghold is the weakest of all" option to "stronghold is overpowered" option. Just read through the first page of this thread ...
Ofc, barbs aren't overpowered, just kidding.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2007 11:50 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:50, 10 Dec 2007.
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Well I did mention the two towns and extra dwellings right? In another map with just one town these would take more time while dungeon can still take care of them fast. Though dungeon DOES have trouble vs stronghold it seems.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 12:13 AM |
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Edited by samiekl at 00:14, 11 Dec 2007.
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well, i think all factions are overpowered and its not fair for stronghold not to have one thread of its own.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 12:25 AM |
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Quote:
Though dungeon DOES have trouble vs stronghold it seems.
Why?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 01:18 AM |
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It has given me that impression but I have not tried your idea about multiple schools yet. Fiur tried with light but apparently it did not help much, maybe I should try learning dark from the shadow witches with arcane intuition. Does it work on your units for tote?
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