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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... 20 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 09:44 AM |
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Edited by samiekl at 09:52, 11 Dec 2007.
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Yes, that's how i learnt confusion. destruction and light's not enough, because your units arent spectacular, even with light's buffs, but pheonix is. Plus, dark is much more useful, and chances to get high lvl spells are greater. I've seen fiur's replay, and to be honest i think he didnt appreciate the power of orcs correctly. Attack+light is not enough to kill those beasts, especially since dungeon has only 3 units that can do decent damage. If he exchanged attack with summoning maybe he would have had a chance. Pheonix with 21 initiative and arcane armour is a scary force. Still, dark is better.
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted December 11, 2007 10:17 AM |
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Which replay you guys are talking about, if you don't mind?
Hmm... it looks like Destruction (Cold Death) + Dark is the best combo against the Barbs. Is there a counter to this?
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 12:57 PM |
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I don't think cold death is the best thing for two reasons. It is always better to aim for secrets of destruction and chances are that rage absorbs part of cold death ie instead of killing one unit, just wounding it - that happens with vorpal sword.
A shame that dark is hard to get..
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:00 PM |
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Hard to get? Nope if you wait for it. Plus, 2 heroes start with it 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 01:09 PM |
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I know and thankfully some maps have witch huts but you may be rushed by the time you get it. Of the two dark heroes I only like Lethos, been ages since I last picked him 
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:12 PM |
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Rushed? are you kidding me? Sure, orcs have strong creeping, but warlocks are masters at it.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:13 PM |
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he is pretty ok I guess...
I mean... creeping with Decay and Assasins is a good exploit. Keep in mind that while invisibile the enemy stacks simply wait doubling thus the decay damage.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 01:31 PM |
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That's beside the point, if you are attacked and have not picked up other than destructive things will not be in your favour. A week 2-3 high level encounter with exp shatter destructive and a good ballista is most likely a lost battle. Of course by then you should have over lvl 15, maybe 20 but do you always get dark?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:35 PM |
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Yes, by then i get dark in most of the cases. Thats because i take sorcery late. After irresistible, destruction and enlightenment are maxxed, i take summoning, dark and sorcery. dark is an instant pick, sorcery the last one.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 01:43 PM |
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Makes sense, you won't be using destructive much in the final battle and you don't need it desperately in creeping. Sorcery is more about summoning and maybe a blind/frenzy/puppet if you find them.
I was also considering luck, if I play a match again there are some combinations I want to try.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:47 PM |
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Tried several combinations, unfortunately only this one worked. Destructive and summoning... crap (you should know that one), light and luck... crap. light, attack and luck... crap.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 01:57 PM |
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Quote:
That's beside the point, if you are attacked and have not picked up other than destructive things will not be in your favour. A week 2-3 high level encounter with exp shatter destructive and a good ballista is most likely a lost battle. Of course by then you should have over lvl 15, maybe 20 but do you always get dark?
with lethos I mean, you would already have dark... with Mass Decay and probably Mass Slow/Confusion too...
The Ballista can be a problem though... Cold Death?
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted December 11, 2007 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
The Ballista can be a problem though... Cold Death?
That's what I was referring to in my earlier post. Against factions with strong tendency for Attack like Barbs/Infernos, I don't know other better counter to Triple Ballista+Flaming Arrows. Is there? In the last battle of my Necro campaign, I had to reorient Arantir for Cold Death, otherwise I couldn't beat Orlando with his ballista.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 16, 2007 03:07 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 03:12, 16 Dec 2007.
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I am beginning to fall in love with the orcs  Their offensive tactics and fast play fits me just fine, they don't worry about spells either. I tried a game in a more 'normal' map(Battle for Honor) where there are no extra centaurs and guardians are of medium strength.
In week 1 I cleared the mines, took the second town with a few centaurs lost, military post and goldmine on day 7. A secondary hero took the ore mine and he sent a ballista to my main on day 2 so I'd save movement. First building was the trappers and it seems I was right in preferring them over extra centaurs or a lvl 1 warcry.
On week 2 I cleared most of my area apart from a pack of pao kai to the east(guarded treeborn quiver so I should have attacked them even at the cost of delaying the goldmine a bit) and the emerald dragons that guarded the tree and a useless artifact in the centre. A pack of untamed cyclopses(10 - guarded tome of destruction meh) and bloodeyed(15 - guarded dragon shield and golden horseshoe ) were not that hard but the shamans from the military post and my trappers were invaluable.
On beginning of week 2 I had 11-12 level and it's around there that I got warmachines, didn't even get ballista/first aid tent. Thankfully flaming arrows were enough to buff my ballista and I had good attack. Instead I had gotten luck and leadership early.
By week 3 I was back in town and I proceeded towards the archdevils that I reached on day 4 - Here is a replay.
You know what, a ballista perk would have really helped and I only had advanced warmachines but my centaurs and luck were pretty effective on their own. Them and 6 shamans for slow/haste were enough.
When I reached red's area I saw that the AI had not even cleared his area though it had built and upgraded everything as usual
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A few comments.
* Always get trappers and ballista before creeping  Logistics would have helped me move around the map but I feel that an extra might skill is more important and makes things less risky.
* At first I hoped that I could build cyclopses on the second town before I could break but since I could break week 3 that wasn't needed plus it would be really hard even with the trading post.
* You don't need more than two secondaries, the main conquers and the others visit windmills, pick resources.
* When you are to break you make sure a secondary will be around to transfer your army, having only centaurs and several single shamans reduces the risk of casualties and every single unit counts.
* Be sure to upgrade the centaurs before leaving, you really depend on them.
* And of course have a lvl 2 warcry, word of the chief may indicate that it will kill 5-6 centaurs but it will actually kill 1 and will give you a great deal in return. If you get fear my roar so much for the better.
Wyverns you can build week 4 unless you plan to finish it fast, earlier you won't have the money to buy artifacts warcry hall and recruit your army. I spent over 20k in artifacts 
* If you wait things will probably be in your favour but why wait when you can rush your way? You can get to the middle upgrade your week 3 army in the hill fort and still have the advantage unless the opponent decides to turtle. But even then you can just take his second town and build up your own.
That said I'm not sure to who the advantage shifts to against haven, academy and fortress if it takes too long. I have the feeling that academy will easily come on top if they get the resources for mini arties, initiative arties in conjunction with mass slow means death.
The runes are known to be a good endgame advantage and as for haven they can get an insane number of champions.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 16, 2007 07:32 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:12, 16 Dec 2007.
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Stronghold can be a very interesting faction with several different strategies. They can easily adapt to their enemy, or just stick with an all offensive style play.
Leadership - With Battle Elation this one is hard to pass up. If you know you are facing necros it is almost a must. Along with rally cry it can negate most negatives that they give. Still useful against any town however.
Luck - Besides the fact that this is a staple for most towns, against dungeon, fortress, or any town that uses destructive magic this one is almost a must. Luck of the barbarian is a very useful skill against neutral casters also.
War_Machines - Regardless of if your going toward the ultimate, or tripple balista this is always useful. Can cut down on losses with the tent skill also.
Logistics - Mostly for increased creeping, but a couple of useful skills. Unless you know there is a memory mentor might want to hold off on this however.
Enlightenment - If you can get this, do so. Increasing your stats can only help you. Plus the extra experience is nothing to sneeze at.
Shouts (that replaces sorcery) - rarely useful, but if you can get them and distract (Especially with a shatter and delay combo) you can really slow down enemy casters. Hard to get however.
Shatter Light (vs Haven and maybe sylvan) - though light is not really a major threat.
Shatter Dark Unless it is highly doubtful your enemy will have dark, the 6 points will not be wasted.
Shatter Destructive - If you have luck of the barbarian unless you are going against dungeon might be best not to get this one.
Shatter Summons - Against Academy...maybe..if you can't get shatter dark.
Memory of our blood - Deffinately take this if offered
Powerful blow - Extra helpful if you have attack > stunning blow > excrutiating strike.
Might over magic - yes please. (even if the enemy normally has low spell power, this makes it even lower)
Attack. Hmm doing more damage with an already damage oriented faction. Wait..is there a downside to this??? Not sure I see the advantage of archery (with one ranged unit), but the strike line is a good one. Frenzy>Stunning>Excrutiating can really be something
Defense - Ok two schools of thought on this. Me personally I like this skill. Most don't for some reason. Rage already absorbs some damage, why not further that with defense? Of course there are more useful skills, but if your choice is between this and say shatter destructive or summons...well...
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Message received.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2007 01:06 PM |
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Quite nice review but you haven't taken into account some powerful and really handy abilities...
Attack- is a MUST with triple ballista and Flaming Arrows you'll just rock...
I managed to kill 6 Crystal Dragons with this ability cuz fire attacks HP itslef... defense isn't considered...
If you play Gotai Attack isn't so helpful. You could take luck for a change...
Moreover- Logistics- you said something really stupid in my humble opinion Logistics is vital for all factions.
Think about the situation: You got great army and you face your opponetns castle. He want to make the same but his overall power is lesser than your is.
You meet and in the next turn you could slay him, but he sneaks out and faces to your castle...
All the creatures are in your army and you haven't got logistics- so you cannot chase him before he reaches the castle...
You have two ways then- change the castles or go back, kill him in your castle and start your march again...
The first way can be quite good if you are a caster (but you are not), cuz you do not base on the creatures then but on the abilities...
The second way slows you down- makes you hurt (sometimes) great looses and it can unable you to force your enemy's castle...
After you get back your mansion, he can build new structures and make his amry more powerful- such powerful taht you cannot beat it...
So Logistics is the most necessery I think...
About the build- I think there is only one main build:
()-means maybe
Exp. Racial- all perks
Exp. Attack- Archery- Flaming Arrows- (Tactics)- I slained Lots of berserkers with no looses in the first week with triple ballistae and that
Exp. War Machines- Ballista, Triple Ballista, First Aid
Exp. Logist- Pathfinding- Warpath- Snatch- maybe you don';t know but Snacht allows you not to loose your turn if you get on board ( I hope the haven't changed it yet )
Exp. Enlightment- Bloodfire, (stamina- Dark revelation)
Exp. Leadership- Recruitment- Battle Elation- (Aura of Swiftness)
And that's all...
This biuld should be changes only while facing Inferno or Necros...
Orcs sucks while fighting Dark Casters 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 16, 2007 01:14 PM |
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Rofl too many skills. Unless in an epic map you'll never get all these and shatter skills should be picked almost always. Now about logistics there's the other side of the coin where you attack an army almost equal to you and he kicks your butt because he had an extra defense or luck skill. Sylvan can afford to take it always, dungeon needs it for swift mind etc but orcs DO need the might skills to survive. And having the might skills you want means you'll creep faster without having to run back later for things you could not handle in the first place. I'd get it only after a triple flaming ballista but even then I don't think I could kill these devils week 3 without leadership and/or luck.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 16, 2007 01:16 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 13:25, 16 Dec 2007.
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Elvin said it better then I did. For Orcs, logistics is not so hot. True, it is not useless, but you absolutely NEED other skills more. Flaming arrows is a good route to go also, but until you manage to get it you are stuck with an almost useless skill in Archery. So..it has it's trade offs.
To Elvin . There is one time where you need absolutely no shatter skills.  Against another stronghold town. (sorry couldn't resist and he knows I am just teasing)
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 16, 2007 01:28 PM |
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Actually I had played a stronghold mirror match in the past and lost because I took logistics whereas dschingi had gotten another might skill Ah newbie moments
It was one of those fun times where none of the players knows well the faction he is playing.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 16, 2007 01:35 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 13:36, 16 Dec 2007.
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Stronghold seems to be one of my better towns. Except when bad luck sticks me with these options vs Necropolipse. Basic Shatter Light or Basic Shatter Destruction. With Navigation or Scouting as my other choices. Ugh.
Now if that isn't attrocious luck..I don't know what is.
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Message received.
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