|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
posted February 12, 2009 10:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Selfishness for society is an oxymoron. Selfishness can only be for the self. That's why it's called selfishness.
Yeah, otherwise it's called sexism, racism, speciesism, puritism, etc... depending on how big this inclusion group is.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 04:13 AM |
|
|
DeadMan:
Can you tell me what, exactly, is wrong with selfishness?
TheDeath:
Quote:
Surely, they cannot be "loving" if they go and enslave us (from their viewpoint, we are 'animals'), so why would we?
Who says that they'd be loving? 
Totoro:
If we were selfless, then we would have no progress, either. Do you think Bill Gates invented Windows to benefit society? No, he did it for his own selfish greed - and I could not be more thankful.
del_diablo:
You speak Norwegian. Why don't you translate it yourself?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:37 AM |
|
Edited by Totoro at 11:52, 13 Feb 2009.
|
Quote:
If we were selfless, then we would have no progress, either. Do you think Bill Gates invented Windows to benefit society? No, he did it for his own selfish greed - and I could not be more thankful.
I created an XL map for HoMM3 from which I got nothing else than pleasure of making it and I bet those who played it enjoyed it more than I did making it. Now, just switch me with Bill Gates and my map with Windows.
Selflessness is not about not caring for oneself. It is about caring others over oneself. That doesn't halt progress.
But maybe I should point out that there is no perfect altruism but selfishness to an extent where it doesn't yet cause any harm for others is allowed.
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:56 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Can you tell me what, exactly, is wrong with selfishness?
You'd be quite aware of what's wrong with selfishness if you lived as a peasant in a feudal society under selfish overlords.
On another note, let's return with another example.
You have a wife. She's cheating on you. You don't know that.
Hence, it doesn't hurt you as long as you don't know it. But it will hurt you if she tells you.
So, is there something wrong with what she's doing?
I mean, what exactly is wrong with cheating as long as you don't tell your partner you're cheating on him/her?
It's a matter of morals.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 12:07 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You speak Norwegian. Why don't you translate it yourself?
Why do you refuse to read it?
____________
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 01:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
On another note, let's return with another example.
You have a wife. She's cheating on you. You don't know that.
Hence, it doesn't hurt you as long as you don't know it. But it will hurt you if she tells you.
So, is there something wrong with what she's doing?
I mean, what exactly is wrong with cheating as long as you don't tell your partner you're cheating on him/her?
What is wrong is that there is a danger that it will come out.
A murder attempt is wrong even if you failed on it.
____________
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 02:51 PM |
|
|
Totoro:
Quote:
I created an XL map for HoMM3 from which I got nothing else than pleasure of making it and I bet those who played it enjoyed it more than I did making it.
But you enjoyed the fact that they enjoyed it, meaning - selfish.
Bak:
Quote:
You'd be quite aware of what's wrong with selfishness if you lived as a peasant in a feudal society under selfish overlords.
These selfish feudal overlords, if they would be rational, would oppress their people less and give them more freedoms - and thus benefit both sides.
As for the cheating wife example, there is the danger that the husband will find out.
del_diablo:
Because I don't know Norwegian.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 04:46 PM |
|
|
Quote:
But you enjoyed the fact that they enjoyed it, meaning - selfish.
There's no bad in selfishness which causes only good for others and yourself. But then there is bad selfishness which causes harm for others and in perfect world there is no such thing.
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 07:45 PM |
|
Edited by baklava at 19:45, 13 Feb 2009.
|
You're into politics, right, MVass?
Well then you'll understand me if I presume that if you ever run for an office, "Selfish and proud of it" won't exactly be your slogan. 
And if we're talking about the benefit of both sides, then it's best that neither side is selfish - so that whenever one side needs help, the other one helps it and they're both alright. Right? After all, isn't ensuring the other side's help rather beneficial for your own well-being?
If you're selfish all your life, you can as well expect others to be selfish towards you when you need a helping hand.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 08:52 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Who says that they'd be loving?
Wasn't that my point? I said they wouldn't be loving if that what's they would do -- so why would WE be classified as such?
Or are you telling me actually, you don't want us to be loving?
In that case mvass, I have some Terminator friends who are eager to give you a taste of your own mentality in... let's be pessimistic, 40 years... hope you live that long to see it
Quote:
If we were selfless, then we would have no progress, either. Do you think Bill Gates invented Windows to benefit society?
You're right, he didn't. If selfishness wasn't part of his nature, we would be using a ten times better OS today, called "Optimizatrix"
Quote:
You have a wife. She's cheating on you. You don't know that.
Hence, it doesn't hurt you as long as you don't know it. But it will hurt you if she tells you.
So, is there something wrong with what she's doing?
I mean, what exactly is wrong with cheating as long as you don't tell your partner you're cheating on him/her?
It's a disgrace. Not just about that, but any "deviousness" is worse than selfishness. In ANY subject.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted February 13, 2009 09:05 PM |
|
|
ahem....
Quote:
If we were selfless, then we would have no progress, either. Do you think Bill Gates invented Windows to benefit society?
first of all, Bill Gates did not invent Windows, its mostly a badly implemented amalgam of ideas stolen from far better operating systems
and second of all, if you consider Windows progress, you know **** about computers
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 10:49 PM |
|
|
Totoro:
Quote:
But then there is bad selfishness which causes harm for others and in perfect world there is no such thing.
I'll agree with you there.
Bak:
Actually, certeris paribus, if both sides are equal, then it doesn't make much difference if both sides are perfectly selfish or perfectly selfless - except people are usually better at fulfilling their own wants rather than them being fulfilled by somebody else. The interesting situation is when the sides' selfishness/selflessness differs.
TheDeath:
Quote:
Or are you telling me actually, you don't want us to be loving?
I want us to do what's best for ourselves.
Quote:
You're right, he didn't. If selfishness wasn't part of his nature, we would be using a ten times better OS today, called "Optimizatrix"
Or we'd be sitting in our caves.
Lith:
Windows is good. It's not written by random half-drunk nerds like Linux is.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
del_diablo:
Because I don't know Norwegian.
And you refuse to read the readable translation done by googles tools?
Quote:
Lith:
Windows is good. It's not written by random half-drunk nerds like Linux is.
Linux advances more in 2 years than Windows in 6. And then i am talking about the advancement IN Linux, but NOT advancement added in later by 3rd party assosiations.
By the way, Windows got 85% marked share is it? Its impossible to get over 80% in a working marked, and it have had 95% marked share. Does that not tell you someting is wrong?
____________
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:14 PM |
|
|
del_diablo:
I can't respond to it because there are some key points that are rather unclear. "What happened was that there were some banks that had smell, which led to bankruptcy." What does that mean? 
And Linux advances quickly, I agree, but it more catches up to Windows, but doesn't really move ahead.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:20 PM |
|
|
Quote:
del_diablo:
I can't respond to it because there are some key points that are rather unclear. "What happened was that there were some banks that had smell, which led to bankruptcy." What does that mean?
dammit, should have looked over it a bit better <.<
smell = bang, crashing, etc...
Quote:
And Linux advances quickly, I agree, but it more catches up to Windows, but doesn't really move ahead.
Mvass you forget someting, Linux itself is already ahead of Windows. Much like japan is ahead of the rest of the world.
And Linux is only the kernel, GNU is also ages ahead. Heck even got 3 major kill apps:
*GCC
*Apache
*Wine
And that is only of the known part of GNU/Linux to me <.<
Heck, the only problem Linux suffers it shares with every other OS except Microsoft and consoll OS: Software producers refuse to port to Linux, they only port to Windows. That is part of the reason Wine is a killer app, its already solving worst parts of those problems.
____________
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 11:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I want us to do what's best for ourselves.
What a coincidence, the terminators will want it as well.
But don't worry if I'll be the programmer, I'll just put there "return the mentality" not the "do what's best for you!". More efficient, karmic speaking
Quote:
Or we'd be sitting in our caves.
Yeah. I'll still be in the basement though, programming viruses
you can be in the cave
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted February 14, 2009 12:08 AM |
|
|
For the note; Advancement. And yes, someting is happening tonight:
http://coolepochcountdown.com/ I guess you to death are going to sit up or?
Woho it passed
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 14, 2009 12:38 AM |
|
|
@MVass
So you're talking about a hypothetical case where all sides are perfectly equal in every way, and where nothing sudden or unfair would ever happen?... Wow. It seems you're a far greater dreamer and idealist than any of us here is.
Truth be told, both sides can be as equal as they want (and let's face it - chances are that 6 billion people will not, ever, be equal), but they'll both need some kind of help sooner or later.
And then we see that there's a huge difference between selfishness and selflessness - if both sides are selfless, the lives are better and safer for both of them. Being selfless doesn't mean you solve the other guy's problems - it means you HELP him solve them, aka you solve them together, or you do your best to solve them yourself if he's unable to. And he does the same for you when you're in need.
But if both sides are selfish, one person can get trapped in a fire and burn to death since the other simply sees no profit in helping him out.
Love thy neighbour. Because anything and everything material you have can be lost over night (ask Jinxer)... And then all you'd have left would be things you don't even believe in.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 14, 2009 12:55 AM |
|
|
del_diablo:
There are plenty of compilers. There are plenty of internet servers. So Linux's biggest killer app is the ability to run most Windows programs? Come on, seriously?
Really, I have no problem with Linux, except compatibility issues. If everyone released programs for Linux instead of Windows, then I'd be using Linux.
TheDeath:
Except machines can't feel pleasure or happiness or pain. So it's really not the same.
And, if not for selfishness, you wouldn't even have a basement.
Bak:
But helping people because they think that they'll help you in the same situation is selfish - even though it's selfless.
And I was saying that if one guy is half-selfish and half-selfless, and you're deciding what to be, it's to your advantage to be selfish.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 14, 2009 01:05 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Except machines can't feel pleasure or happiness or pain. So it's really not the same.
And, if not for selfishness, you wouldn't even have a basement.
I like it when you have no clue what you're talking about. Especially regarding the Linux part. Maybe it doesn't have a "killer app" (what that means? functionality?), but it IS different. This means, it is NOT "copy-paste" from Windows. See where I'm heading? It is built from SCRATCH (well also a bit from Unix anyway).
So not only is your stuff about Bill Gates completely invalid (not that he actually made Windows, but maybe DOS would be more correct to say), but you're just like the average joe, has no clue on technical skills, but he says "man, that costs $$$$ more, so iz gotta be the only way possible!". After all, what does he know?
Also way to go selfishness -- that's why people make cracks...
And lastly, the first computers were built by the military or other "government funded" organizations. NOT for private profits. But you know, those who privatize stuff are sneaky bastards. They do not respect where they got their stuff -- even Microsoft takes open-source code from here and there (there were a lot of trials about this in 2002-2004 period if I remember). Microsoft fought with open-source and failed: what's their problem? They just reap and then put a private label on it.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
