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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted February 14, 2009 10:20 AM |
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del_diablo:
There are plenty of compilers. There are plenty of internet servers. Come on, seriously?
Linux is compiled with it, consider how old it is and how well it works it does a great job. Its getting less of a killer app with the years, but it was one of the greater back then.
Apache is stable and secure. Its THE killer app, without it GNU/Linux would not have 70% of the worlds server marked.
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So Linux's biggest killer app is the ability to run most Windows programs?
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Really, I have no problem with Linux, except compatibility issues. If everyone released programs for Linux instead of Windows, then I'd be using Linux.
And you wonder why its a killer app?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 14, 2009 03:45 PM |
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TheDeath:
Linux is different from Windows, but it doesn't mean that it's better. It has compatibility issues. I don't use an OS for the OS - I use it for compatibility. The best OS is the one that runs all of my programs the fastest. Windows is that OS.
And Charles Babbage was hardly funded by the government.
del_diablo:
So Linux is good because it can run most Windows programs?  But Windows can run more Windows programs than Linux can - so I guess it's better.
all:
When I started this thread, I wanted actual discussions about economics, not "Derpa derp! Selfish!".  How about marginal utility, or the balance-wheel theory, or monetary policy?
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 14, 2009 04:28 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 16:28, 14 Feb 2009.
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Linux is different from Windows, but it doesn't mean that it's better. It has compatibility issues. I don't use an OS for the OS - I use it for compatibility. The best OS is the one that runs all of my programs the fastest. Windows is that OS.
Who cares?
What I meant is, your analogy with "cave" is ultimate fail. Unless, that is, you consider using Linux to be in the cave, then that's no problem for me at all... not sure about the other way though, if there wouldn't have been any government funding, if we would even have computers right now
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And Charles Babbage was hardly funded by the government.
You're joking? I was talking about the manufacturing process of processors, for example.
By the way, check Alan Turing
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mvassilev
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posted February 14, 2009 05:14 PM |
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If not for selfishness, then Unix wouldn't exist - so neither would Linux. 
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You're joking? I was talking about the manufacturing process of processors, for example.
I'm not saying that government is evil. I'm saying that selfishness is good.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted February 14, 2009 05:45 PM |
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If not for selfishness, then Unix wouldn't exist - so neither would Linux.
If not for selfishness, then explotation, crimes, corruption wouldn't exist, as I said before.
Who gives a **** about variety of user-friendly computer operating systems.
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TheDeath
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posted February 14, 2009 05:49 PM |
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@mvass: Well the Linux kernel (which is, really, Linux, the rest is GNU) is made from scratch by Linus Torvalds. It may be inspired by Unix but it doesn't use any code from it so it's not a copy-paste or anything like that.
and for the government thing, my point was that most of stuff that is 'private' benefited, if not directly, at its root from non-private stuff. Nice way of bashing things when you wouldn't even be here without (not talking to you, but in general)
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del_diablo
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Manifest
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posted February 14, 2009 07:36 PM |
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So Linux is good because it can run most Windows programs? But Windows can run more Windows programs than Linux can - so I guess it's better.
Keep going and i am going to be tempted to attempt to find a way to kill you because of your attempts to make yourself dumber than you are.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 14, 2009 08:16 PM |
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*looks at thread title*
*sees that it is called "economics", not "philosophy"*
k. Let's just agree to disagree. TheDeath, I am no anarchist, so don't give me that stuff about how I hold the government as completely evil.
Non-economics discussion closed.
So, how about that stimulus, huh? Opinions?
Edit: Incidentally, about socialism...
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Eccentric Opinion
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DeadMan
Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
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posted February 16, 2009 04:01 PM |
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TheDeath:
Why should we act in a way that would make animals respect us?
One should get respect equivalent to one's importance in making society run. The proletariat is essential, so obviously they deserve the utmost of respect. Animals? Nah, they're not even a part of society.
Totoro:
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What if I lived in socialistic state and decided that I don't feel like working anymore, I'll let others do my job and sustain me, I would perhaps brake my leg on purpose or just play too stupid to understand anything. Selfishness prospers.
You're stuck in a rut of thinking like a capitalist when there is no more capitalism. Capitalists only think that way because it is the only way to survive in a capitalist society. When capitalism is removed, selfishness will disappear.
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That's false statement, a pet respects a human which it recognizes íts master.
Not all animals can do so. For example, have you ever seen a fly show any kind of respect to humans?
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And whatever we do, we should respect nature because it gives us everything we have, everything! Wouldn't you respect a person who gives you a blanket if you're cold?
But nature isn't a person. It's a thing. Do you respect a hammer when you hammer nails with it?
mvassilev:
Selfishness being wrong is fundamental. There's no arguing about that. Man should live to satisfy the needs of others, not their own.
As for The Road to Serfdom, people would willingly submit to the central planners - for the greater good.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2009 10:31 PM |
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TheDeath
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posted February 16, 2009 11:51 PM |
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Why should we act in a way that would make animals respect us?
Because we're different better?
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DeadMan
Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
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posted February 17, 2009 03:53 PM |
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We're different/better because we are humans.
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TheDeath
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posted February 17, 2009 07:17 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:17, 17 Feb 2009.
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That is ridiculous. That's exactly like the arrogancy I said before with authority, like saying "I'm different better than you cause I am King! I do not need to justify this! How dare you challenge my authority!" and stuff like that... (replace King with "human" btw).
in fact the "capitalist pigs" as you call them are just your image, but using that mentality a bit wider group which also includes humans (I might add, a bit more even rational since they don't make exceptions). I.e they do not take humans as "special" or obey authority. They just treat everyone and everything the same -- i.e as "objects" (well I'm talking extreme) or "property", while you treat only humans with "speciality" because they are... well humans. Quite hypocrite when you are one yourself (mvass do not argue, I'm talking about "capitalist pigs" as he puts it, not the ordinary dude).
No this doesn't mean I say capitalism is better at all. I am a socialist myself, but not with your authority-oriented one that leads more to communism (albeit, the communism we had, since the real term has nothing to do with it) and is just a smaller-scale capitalism in effect.
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DeadMan
Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
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posted February 17, 2009 07:52 PM |
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You would have made a great leftist. Too bad you let the capitalist media implant these ideas of the false left into your mind. A pity.
And I'm not saying that we're better than them because we're human. I'm saying that we're not them, and thus can use them as we see fit. I would fully expect the pigs or dogs or cats, if they had our reasoning facualities, to do the same to us. Why would we challenge our own authority?
And socialism (for what you are advocating is a return to the ages of the caves, not a step forward into a workers' paradise) is nothing like capitalism. Capitalism exploits the productive force that makes society tick. Socialism puts that force in power.
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TheDeath
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posted February 17, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 20:21, 17 Feb 2009.
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And I'm not saying that we're better than them because we're human. I'm saying that we're not them, and thus can use them as we see fit.
CEO of a company: "I'm saying, I'm not the beggar on the street, so I can use him as I see fit!". (extreme capitalism)
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I would fully expect the pigs or dogs or cats, if they had our reasoning facualities, to do the same to us. Why would we challenge our own authority?
So?
How does something become better than another? By doing the same things someone else does? How can that possibly make something better if it does the same things?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
What you're advocating is kinda like survival of the fittest, or of the one in authority. That's extremely close to capitalism.
What would be truly ironic is if they wouldn't. What would you say then, that we are worse than them because we would?
EDIT: What about:
"Hey, let's nuke those bastards!"
"Aren't we supposed to be... the 'good' ones Sir?"
"Hell no, they would do the same to us!"
"Yeah but we call them 'evil'..."
"What are you saying private?"
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And socialism (for what you are advocating is a return to the ages of the caves, not a step forward into a workers' paradise) is nothing like capitalism. Capitalism exploits the productive force that makes society tick. Socialism puts that force in power.
Hmm I think cavemen were kinda selfish and "every man for himself" (in a way), probably didn't even had rules/police/whatever... I can't be advocating that you know so I guess you're wrong
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mvassilev
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posted February 17, 2009 10:50 PM |
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Hmm? I agree with DeadMan? That's impossible!
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How can that possibly make something better if it does the same things?
It's not what people do, it's what people are. For example, if one of my family members murdered someone (not me) I would still love them, because they're my family member. But if some random guy off the street did that, then that'd be entirely different. Same concept here.
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Hmm I think cavemen were kinda selfish and "every man for himself" (in a way), probably didn't even had rules/police/whatever... I can't be advocating that you know so I guess you're wrong
Actually, cavemen were a lot more socially oriented than we are, and much less "every man for himself" - more "every man for the tribe". And they didn't have the need for a formal police, because they didn't have that many people.
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TheDeath
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posted February 17, 2009 10:56 PM |
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It's not what people do, it's what people are.
This is exactly what I said with authority. Why do we always have to go in circles? Don't you SEE how that is exactly as saying "It's not what people do, it's what you are. If you are comrade Stalin, then you've got the authority."?
And your concept is kinda flawed since that deals with something you grieve after, not something which YOU take ACTION upon. The latter signifies authority of some sort, exactly like tyranny/or whatever else I outlined above.
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Actually, cavemen were a lot more socially oriented than we are, and much less "every man for himself" - more "every man for the tribe". And they didn't have the need for a formal police, because they didn't have that many people.
Nope. You take all these things like police, public schools, etc... as capitalistic when THEY ARE NOT. We are much more social today. Even if it isn't the way you think, remember even if it was "for the tribe" it probably was either slavery or simply "patriotism"...
...not that we don't have patriots today
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DeadMan
Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
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posted February 20, 2009 08:36 PM |
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Mvass:
There's quite a difference from using Earth's resources for society in common and using them for private slefish profit.
TheDeath:
Yes, but the capitalist does not actually own the beggar the way we own the Earth. Humans can't own humans (without slavery).
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By doing the same things someone else does? How can that possibly make something better if it does the same things?
Because it's different.
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TheDeath
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posted February 20, 2009 08:57 PM |
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There's quite a difference from using Earth's resources for society in common and using them for private slefish profit.
Yeah, the latter being more efficient means to show the society's greed and authority ( ), as opposed to an individual's greed ().
If anything at least the latter is less dangerous and easier to stop, though by no means do I agree with it (i.e mvass).
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Yes, but the capitalist does not actually own the beggar the way we own the Earth. Humans can't own humans (without slavery).
Yes they can, after all, "own" is just either a contract, certification, or HUMAN-MADE concept. Everything human-made is possible, we are not talking about the laws of physics or something that we must follow. Any "concept" is possible on everything, because property is just a concept... So one could extend such concept to humans -- and wait, we already did back in the days and STILL do (we call it human trafficking nowadays).
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Because it's different.
Yup. And Bill Gates is different than the beggar on the end of the street where I live.
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DeadMan
Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
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posted February 20, 2009 09:00 PM |
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Just what kind of socialist are you? You are hereby expelled from the Party! 
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