|
| Thread: Which faction is hardest to master in multiplayer? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted February 28, 2008 10:46 AM |
|
|
Don't trust duel mode, it's not balanced and orcs have gotten the short end of the stick too.
Defense for stronghold is not essential. Maybe against the might factions and endgame fortress but otherwise there are so many better picks.
If you have trouble with the healing tent you are doing something wrong. If you see 13 archangels hit your cyclops and kill none at about 18 level and NO defense or have a battle with lots of dragons with 250 centaurs lvl 17 and still lose none with tent that should say a few things. Call of blood can do a better job that defense.
Flaming ballista can be had by many but never as effective as the orcs. Just demonlords and they will have to reach lvl 15 and NOT take logistics or dark(yeah right). Conclusion: Does not matter.
Afraid of losing it? So many ways to prevent the enemy from shooting first, that's hardly a problem. Area spells? If the opponent has them he has already lost.
I'm not saying it's THE skill but it's not bad for the reasons you said.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 11:12 AM |
|
|
I think all factions are pretty hard to master, as soon as I got Heroes 5 I played with Haven and became pretty good with them. Now I play with fortress, who I believe are quite hard to master.
____________
|
|
Lesij
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 11:21 AM |
|
Edited by Lesij at 11:29, 28 Feb 2008.
|
What are the reasons then?
I know that very rarely ssomeone takes Exp Destr and Exp. Dark, but that was only an example...
I don't do anything wrong with tent...
I wait for the centaurs to be4 killed in number of ten before healing, and try to make my tent act just before the end of the fight...
Anyway, I found it easier to play with defense.
Especially in late game, when there are some stil-leaving high level creeps wasn't killed yet by your opponent which can be really good for getting lots of experience...
Sometimes I attacked a horde of Dragons with Execs only to loose one of them on the retailation (there was left a pack of dracos) and the other one when another horde attacked...
Without defense- maybe I could take the first horde down with my execs only, but the next horde would kill about 4-5 of them in spite of two...
what's more- rage is really looseable... With defense- you loose 6, 5 points per hit 
So you don't need to waste your turn for call of blood. You can Fear or Anger anyone...
Call of blood may be good in the early game when you need rage to survive... In the late game you are given at least 100 points at the begging and can do well with them if you have defence...
Double reduction 60% from rage and 30% from defence, +2 life from vitality and 20% range damage reduced thanks to evasion are really worthy for the orcs IMHO...
|
|
akaihane
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 12:43 PM |
|
|
Am I the first to notice but after reading numerous posts from Lesij , he seems like a clueless veteran?
Your example of tower damage is obviously wrong , 20% reduction from evasion won't make the difference of 8 vs 24 deaths from 3 tower shots.
I supposed your battle with 50 bloodeye cyclops were creeps? Its pretty normal not to lose any when you are a hero with much more defence than creeps.
You seems to have this weird problem of using creeps as example when trying to show one strat is superior but when you want to bring down another strat , you use human related stuff.
Anyway , my opinion about orcs is that I rather take leadership/luck than defence. I would go for triple flaming ballista if I was offered war machine early.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 01:18 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 13:29, 28 Feb 2008.
|
@akaihane
You hit the spot   On both accounts.
@Lesij
Simple, it's not more effective than attack's other advanced abilities at all times. Depends on the time and faction.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 01:29 PM |
|
Edited by samiekl at 13:44, 28 Feb 2008.
|
|
Hey, how can you say something like that about Lesij??
|
|
Lesij
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 01:29 PM |
|
Edited by Lesij at 16:03, 28 Feb 2008.
|
Did I say that evasion makes it?
I think that rather vitality helps a lot in this case...
In the other things you are right...
I am a clueless noob, but not a veteran.
I just find it easier to play with defense. That's all -_-
Anywway, I was trying to make an alternative strategy for stronghold cuz everyone knows thath luck-leader-machine strategy and it quickly became bearable...
@samie- didn't understand you at all if it was to me -_-
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 01:50 PM |
|
|
yes, I was speaking of duel, I mainly played duel (and I think I tried all the factions in this mode)
in adventure against the AI (and a friend once) I only tried haven (in the V1.0),dungeon and inferno in TotE. I'm currently trying academy and my next will probably be stronghold. I also saw how powerful the sylve seems to be thanks to a friend.
I found dungeon pretty good, powerful units and nice spells (not only for the damage, but also the secondary effects, like decreasing the defense or stunning the ennemy)
inferno is a bit harder to play, maybe because the devil have little move, whereas dragons can blast 1 to 2 stacks right at the beginning of the fight. and against some armies I think it's a problem if you can't hurt them bad enough at the 1st turn, because inferno lacks defense.
academy seems pretty good so far, but once again they have no defense (and no attack) maybe it's the reason why they have so many shooters?
|
|
Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 03:02 PM |
|
|
IMHO dungeon is the hardest to master... You need a lot of time to perfect warlocks, cause in any case u need to quickly finish your opponent
They have complicated earlygame (no mana,which spell or skill will pop,which neutrals...), so u must know how to creep and develop FAST, must have good hero/skill management (hero is the key  ), creature/skill harmony  , need to preserve creatures cause they aren't many, then it's an expensive faction (u must know exactly what are your prioritys - which buildings, creature upgrades...), which artifacts to buy... and ALL those things u must do quickly cause u s*** lategame.
____________
Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
|
|
nosfe
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 03:07 PM |
|
|
|
i find warlocks just got too easy to play in tote, you creep with furies until you get enough mana then switch to stalkers and never look back
|
|
Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 03:13 PM |
|
|
...sry but warlock masters are more then furies & invisibility creeping...
____________
Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 03:14 PM |
|
|
|
Warlocks can play so differently......
|
|
DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 03:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Warlocks can play so differently......
This man know's what's he's talking about so you better belive him.
|
|
yanouser
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 04:35 PM |
|
|
Guys there are many theories I cannot agree, but at the very end you said something terribly crazy.
I think that - without any doubts - dungeon has the easiest creeping in the whole game. There are realy few creaturs that can stand against with succes (ghost ...).
AND THE CREEPING STARTS WITH STALKERS AND END ON STALKERS. The maidens are used only to creep slow creaturs. With firewall (later) or decay (Lethos... Very beggining) you can exit dragon pass in second week defeating 7th blocking way... If you dont want to open keyholder...
So please dont tell me that dungeon is hard to master. It is quite weak faction ( coz' hit and run is risky and dangerous strategy) , but they definetly are not hard to play.
The same with Haven... Please... One of the strongest faction and creeping with marksman is... How to say that...? Banal?
But I can agree that Haven is hard to master. For me because you have to well distribute your resources between training, building, hiring...Generaly the economy is the point of Haven.
Most of all I think that, coz' if you are experienced player, advancing your hero is a matter of knowlage about builds and counter builds. It is not difficult.
____________
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 04:48 PM |
|
|
I didnt say they are the hardest to master. Every faction has its tricks and i'd say all are equally hard to master.
About dungeon, sure, you can blast everything to pieces, and if you are good enough you will actually do it. But we have another problem. Final fight. Hit and running is a way, but after a few games like this no one will play you anymore. So...how about no hitandrun? And here we come to another thing... dungeon can be very effective without focusing on destruction. Mastering the destruction way AND the the other ones (which are not so limited, thats why i like dungeon, you can play it very differently) IS hard to master. But, then again, all factions have other ways to defeat their foes than the regular ones.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 05:20 PM |
|
|
yanouser: Successful creeping is one thing. Successful battling is another.
You may creep efficiently (more than your opp) and still lose.
Creeping with haven is banal? Dunno, I'd say it's rather mediocre. Not as bad as I thought a couple of weeks before, but not stunning either.
Dungeon suffers from a relatively weak lineup and it takes some skill to use it efficiently, as an addition to spells. Unorthodox approaches, such as light magic and a more "mighty" approach, may completely surprise your enemy and screw his planning and his formation, resulting in a easy win.
|
|
Lesij
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 05:29 PM |
|
|
That's true.
Simply every faction can find a strategy to counter a specific one.
Mastering is knowing all the strategies of the faction, and creeping strategies, to be flexible and to match your oppnents perfectly.
Samiekl showed he had mastered playing dungeon in the battle with the orcs.
He found their weak point and used it in a very smart way.
Also, there are some universal strategies, when you have more than one foe...
If you know all of the strategies and are able to invent new, alternative ones- then you've mastered the faction...
So, Samie's slightly right- every faction is hard to master, but it depends on the person playing the game, which will be easier or more difficult to master for him/her...
Maybe it doesn't seem so, but IMHO, personality and character have a lot to do with it 
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 05:34 PM |
|
|
|
Lesij
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 06:00 PM |
|
|
|
You showed you masterd it, anyway
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2008 06:08 PM |
|
|
|
No, i showed how orcs can be defeated by dungeon. When your empowered implosion does 400 damage, you must think of something else. Never showed how other factions can be defeated by dungeon, am i right?
|
|
|
|
