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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 05:49 PM |
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If I understand you right, you think that LOVE is something like a basic emotion, some basic ingredient, with different "kinds" of love consisting of that basic ingredient called LOVE plus a mix of other - not necessarily "basic" - emotional ingredients.
This would be your hypothesis, right?
Well depends what you mean by 'basic', but yes virtually all psychology I know and am aware of (this means even what I read obviously!) tries to separate feelings from one another, so it can 'study' them -- or explain certain behaviors based on a mix of these together.
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The problem with this is, that I don't see any evidence for those "basic" feelings - they don't suggest themselves, at least not for me. But if you are so keen on tossing your ideas about love and emotions around, maybe you can come up with what exactly makes you think what you think. What evidence or circumstances seem to suggest for you that there is this basic feeling of LOVE?
Uh, because logically, there's always a basic building block from which we are made?
Now I am not necessarily talking about materialism but just draw a parallel from there -- even if feelings aren't materialist (let's not get into that, I'm sure mvass will disagree here), they may have other components (not atoms) that make them up together.
At least, psychology tries to approximate (as always, you can't describe feelings, especially for someone else, with 100% accuracy) this by trying to split them up and analyze them at a time. They don't have words for "crazy" or "mad" or "psycho" -- but rather a lot of components put together that can explain different kinds of 'crazy' (at least from what the average joe uses).
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Doomforge
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posted January 29, 2009 06:10 PM |
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I guess you're right, Death. I shouldn't expect that a simple relationship will be the ultimate panacea for all my problems of my life. No matter how good it is.
I feel much better now 
I still don't agree on the boring part, though. Boring girls are, well, boring.
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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 06:35 PM |
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I still don't agree on the boring part, though. Boring girls are, well, boring.
Yes well my point was that this 'difference' between a boring and a non-boring girl, in reality, is much smaller than your expectations (this does not mean that it is 0, or that a non-boring girl is less interesting or the same, it means that your expectations for it are so high that probably you think this will change a lot, when in fact, it changes little; that is, not as much as you thought).
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Doomforge
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posted January 29, 2009 06:46 PM |
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I think it changes a lot. Because aside from kissing, hugging and having sex, you also need to talk. And a talk with a boring girl is simply boring. That reduces her to a touch-kiss-**** service.
I thought you're completely against it, Death 
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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 07:26 PM |
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I don't think you got what I said -- it's not in comparison to whatever else (because boring for me doesn't mean less talking) in a relationship.
When I said that it changes little, I meant on the whole (i.e from a bigger perspective) in YOUR LIFE, not in the relationship, necessarily.
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Doomforge
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posted January 29, 2009 07:32 PM |
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well, what do you mean by boring, then? care to elaborate?
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Lexxan
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posted January 29, 2009 07:33 PM |
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*sigh*
I really, really, HATE to see how this thread has turned out.
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Doomforge
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posted January 29, 2009 07:36 PM |
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why? we still do talk about love. You don't want more boring oh-I-kissed-her-omg talk, do you?  Talking about juvenile love quickly grows old.
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DagothGares
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posted January 29, 2009 07:37 PM |
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talking about the philosophical structure of the definition of the feeling that is love gets boring even faster. 
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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 07:50 PM |
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*sigh*
I really, really, HATE to see how this thread has turned out.
Well I really really HATE to see comments like this as well.
Oh and did I mention they are off-topic?
@Doom: boring would be... boring
sorry don't know a better term
I only say, I had a few boring mates at (high) school, I still talked with them though.
There's nothing that it can make more boring than your situation without though (unless you day-dream and you are interrupted by that 'boring' talk ).
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Doomforge
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posted January 29, 2009 08:14 PM |
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I only say, I had a few boring mates at (high) school, I still talked with them though.
Yeah but you didn't try to get into relationship with them
That usually means spending a lot of time with each other. If the girl is boring, you will quickly run out of topics. And that sucks.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 29, 2009 08:18 PM |
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Well depends what you mean by 'basic', but yes virtually all psychology I know and am aware of (this means even what I read obviously!) tries to separate feelings from one another, so it can 'study' them -- or explain certain behaviors based on a mix of these together.
Except that we don't know what feelings actually are and what they are made of, of course. Psychology, as far as I know, is black-boxing them, meaning, yes, there are feelings, yes we try to explain how a feeling DEVELOPS (meaning, what it actually triggers and why in terms of action or behaviour), but, no, we have no idea, hat feelings are as such.
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What evidence or circumstances seem to suggest for you that there is this basic feeling of LOVE?
Uh, because logically, there's always a basic building block from which we are made?
Umm, no. What about thoughts. Are there "basic" thoughts that thoughts and thinking consists of? Basic thoughts with a meaning already. If I would bisect feelings I'd expect a lot smaller blocks than those already labelled.
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they may have other components (not atoms) that make them up together.
Right, but ee above.
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At least, psychology tries to approximate (as always, you can't describe feelings, especially for someone else, with 100% accuracy) this by trying to split them up and analyze them at a time. They don't have words for "crazy" or "mad" or "psycho" -- but rather a lot of components put together that can explain different kinds of 'crazy' (at least from what the average joe uses).
Err, crazy, mad and psycho are no feelings, but states of mind. Where is the connection?
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TheDeath
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posted January 30, 2009 12:22 AM |
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Except that we don't know what feelings actually are and what they are made of, of course. Psychology, as far as I know, is black-boxing them, meaning, yes, there are feelings, yes we try to explain how a feeling DEVELOPS (meaning, what it actually triggers and why in terms of action or behaviour), but, no, we have no idea, hat feelings are as such.
Well if you would take the analogy with the crazy I said earlier (ignore that they are states of mind, since psychology deals with that better anyway). You tend to analyze the respective disorders that lead to that behavior, like you said. These are the basic building blocks (well as far as we know anyway, since we could go even deeper if we had more knowledge on the subject). The point I'm trying to make is that, why should love be different? Even if we know less about it, it's still in that realm. Even if the building blocks are more, shall I say, abstract and hard to find (well not ALWAYS but I explained the exceptions), you still know at least that there are (analogy from the other 'disorders'). Why should this be limited to disorders? I mean it's not like being "crazy" is abnormal -- it's just that way because of society, since it is RELATIVE. By that logic, love can be considered a disorder -- compared to someone who doesn't know or experience love (again, it's relative, if there's even such a person).
You said so yourself that someone must have something "wrong" if he feels the same towards his wife as to his parents, for example -- that's a disorder, and thus, a direct connection with love and the other disorders (such as being 'crazy', or being 'in love' or whatever it's called).
The problem with all this is that it is only done by example best, and I don't know how to explain otherwise (examples of anything, behavior, feelings, etc...).
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Err, crazy, mad and psycho are no feelings, but states of mind. Where is the connection?
Well they all use hate as a form or another, which is a feeling. We could also simplify it further (mathematically) if we made hate the opposite of love. Since there's no "special" hate for your wife compared to any other person (I don't mean the MOTIVATION such as jealousy obviously, but the feeling itself), similar should be with love.
Definition of love: the opposite of hate. Of course this assumes we have hate defined, but that is easier (see above why) since there aren't any 'exceptions'
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JollyJoker
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posted January 30, 2009 09:41 AM |
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I disagree with the whole approach.
All disorders, as far as I know, are not the result of faulty elements, but either of "missing" elements or of "misplacement" or "wrong connections". For example, sadistic killers don't seem to able to put themselves into the emotional shoe of another person (a defect, missing an ability) and may seem to have an interest in making a certain someone suffer. While "hate" seems to play a role here, hate itself is based on something else again.
For me feelings are basically the signals the subconscious sends, filtered through the conscious mind (or how the conscious mind "reads" them). The subconscious is where instincts are housed and where everything is housed a person learns subconsciously that is about those instincts or connected with them; the first is the genetic instinctual heritage, the second is the update reality and experience makes - a BIOS update, actually.
So feelings are, for me, the instinct signals filtered through or translated by the consciousness.
I think it's not necessary to go into detail here, at least not at this point, but IF you accept that feelings are the tranlated signals from the instincts, then it follows automatically that love comes from the instinctual reproduction complex initially, with "reproduction complex" meaning all instincts that revolve around the reproduction of the species which includes the motherly instincts as well as the caring for the vulnerable mate one.
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Doomforge
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posted January 30, 2009 01:55 PM |
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Well, anyway.
In Father's thread, JJ suggested I should try to find an older girlfriend rather than continuously aiming at younger and failing.
The pros are that they are, well, more mature, less giggling, more organized and can be more interesting.
The cons - for me - are that they have more life experience than me and I would feel like a kid. And I don't need more moms in my life. I need to be the dominating part of the relationship. Otherwise, I feel downright pathetic.
So, what do you think? I'm rather content with the girl I have right now, but you know, those things never last too long with young girls (she's 16. Well, almost >_> ). I don't find it a good idea right now, but I'm open to all suggestions concerning my future search, in case something goes wrong.
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mvassilev
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posted January 30, 2009 02:15 PM |
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Doomforge
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posted January 30, 2009 02:20 PM |
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Mainly because attractive (both physically and mentally) girls of my age are very arrogant. And I can't stand an ego bigger than a Kirov Airship.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 30, 2009 02:28 PM |
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The cons - for me - are that they have more life experience than me and I would feel like a kid. And I don't need more moms in my life. I need to be the dominating part of the relationship. Otherwise, I feel downright pathetic.
On the other hand it looks like dominating the relationship might have unwelcome consequences for you. Moreover I'm pretty positive, eligible women wouldn't need more sons either, actually.
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Doomforge
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posted January 30, 2009 02:29 PM |
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what consequences do you have in mind? 
And you know, whether she would or wouldn't be too "motherly", I'd still feel like a kid.
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mvassilev
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posted January 30, 2009 02:34 PM |
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Mainly because attractive (both physically and mentally) girls of my age are very arrogant. And I can't stand an ego bigger than a Kirov Airship.
Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough, or in the right places.
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