|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
posted January 14, 2009 03:52 PM |
|
|
Cast Vampirism on them and you have a obstacle which noone will ever want to touch 
best to put them in front of your Marksmen with Magic Immunity
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 14, 2009 04:05 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 01:49, 16 Jan 2009.
|
Orcs would be likely to have horde's anger however. Or may hit the griffins hard before you manage that. Or scare them away, I wonder if they'd keep the defense bonuses that way.
Lately I get the feeling that people need better gold management so being the aspiring economist around here I should give some financial advising  Never ever start buying artifacts or using mentor! Easy to miscalculate and mentor well...it's unpredictable at best. What seems to work best for me is first upgrade my units, buy a few key artifacts and then decide how to use the remaining gold after leveling up. In fact you may hold on to your money till leveling is done, you never know..
It's late now, should probably post a new question tomorrow 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
|
|
posted January 16, 2009 01:55 PM |
|
|
Are you saying people were using money before levelling up? 
I usually first check out the town for spells, then the Artifact Merchants to see what artifacts I can get (but do not buy any artifacts at this point), then I go to the Sphinx-area, check out all the spell shrines (including Arcane Library), and then level up. After that I revisit the level 3 shrines if there are spells I couldn't learn before but can now, re-visit the Arcane Library, then upgrade my creatures (and train them first if Haven), then use Mentor (but not excessively, just a little for now) and finally buy artifacts. If I have more money after this I use the mentor some more (if I'm not satisfied with my abilities, of course)
Then I visit the Mana Well, though sometimes (rarely now, I learned from my past mistakes) I forget.
____________
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted January 16, 2009 03:09 PM |
|
Edited by veco at 15:11, 16 Jan 2009.
|
I do same as Ash, although the first I spend my money on are key artifacts. Like if I see Ring of Vitality for necro, Shield of Dwarven King when facing Dark casters, Ring of banishment when likely to face Summoning so that I'm sure I won't run out of gold for them. Then visit castle and shrines to check out spells, level up, back to castle and shrines, upgrade accordingly to what build I got, mentor ~3 times if needed, trade all spare resources for gold and buy other arties. Mentor if any gold left and I've got all arties I wanted.
____________
none of my business.
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted January 20, 2009 05:51 PM |
|
Edited by veco at 17:52, 20 Jan 2009.
|
Mark of the Necromancer - while it's great to have on normal maps it sucks in duels. Why?
Because to gain 10 mana you need to:
-Spend time casting it
-By the time you need it there aren't many stacks worth casting it upon. If there are then:
a)you lost anyway
b)your troops outnumber the enemy
-You need to deliver 750 damage to the target before you can reap the reward. Rather unlikely at the end of the battle.
Arcane Training grants you 20% cost reduction which you can translate to 10 extra mana if you have 50 total or extra 20 mana if you have 100 total.
20 extra mana from Secrets of Destruction.
Dark Reneweal is obvious if you plan on going Dark
Intelligence(+50%mana) + Graduate(+2knowlegde)?
In my opinion all of the above listed perks are far better than MotN so do not hesitate on erasing all necros racial skills and perks
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 20, 2009 05:55 PM |
|
|
Motn loses part of its usefulness when there is no creeping involved. Still it can save you occasionally, as for 750 dmg you obviously cast it long before you need the mana.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 01:16 AM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 13:54, 01 Jun 2009.
|
*bump*
Been a while and the regular posters have gained more duel experience since then Perhaps my previous attempts were a bit too wordy to keep this thread running. Or they lacked focus, I kinda expected people would bring up certain questions of their own for discussion. Let's try something else, details that can influence the course of a battle - things an average player may overlook.
DUEL TIPS
HAVEN
- Although a knight has limited mana it has an unlimited source of cleansing. Splitting paladins in two stacks you can keep using lay hands forever, add a mass haste and leadership and they can keep counteracting curses while your shooters and griffins do the rest.
- Divine guidance does not affect units under vampirism, magical immunity or freeze effect.
- Magical immunity in a puppeted unit may fail if you have resistance. It is your resistance that you have to beat, not the opponent's.
- While conscripts are a good addition sometimes having a double zealot, inquisitor or paladin stack can be worth your while. Helps the rest of your army play smoother, can free hero turns and the like.
- It is no secret that crossbowmen have a wide damage range and are thus best used with divine strength. Since they also act slow two caster stacks(zealots and inquisitor) can raise their damage output immensely. Watch as 2-8 turns into 6-8 that is further increased by 60%.
- Griffins can dive with morale and possibly kill a 10 init unit before it acts. However since imperials act first they rarely receive blessings from your hero and sometimes it can be worth your while to wait for a haste or RM.
- Battle griffins in contrast may act after hero/zealot or inquisitor which can improve their dive's effectiveness.
- Zealot's cleansing can not only deal with curses but also elemental effects like freeze. Keep in mind that it cannot dispel frenzy.
- Purge can cleanse curses if you attack your own units just like it can dispel enemy blessings and rune bonuses.
- Seraph's spell is mana based as opposed to the archangel's. As such you may cast divine vengeance twice if you have refined mana.
- Archangel or seraph's special is better to use when their numbers are high but not necessarily early in the battle. A regeneration in endgame and ensuing resurrection can win games.
SYLVAN
- Two druid stacks deal more lightning damage than one due to the logarithmic formula in caster stacks.
- High druid's special does not work only once. If they die and you resurrect them they can use it again.
- High druid special allows sylvan to be proficient with every kind of magic school.
- Druid elder's endurance is better than high druid's.
- Pristine unicorns duplicate every light spell except magical immunity.
- Child of light works like mark of the wizard, can resurrect two stacks at a time or double the amount of unicorns. Also works when the unicorns are dead so keep the enemy units from stepping on their corpses.
- Rage of the forest allows savage treants to get attack boost from both RM and endurance. Endurance divides the bonus between attack and defense even after they have used the special.
- Take roots with last stand gives 100% extra defense.
- Prismatic breath is affected by luck so maxing luck is a good idea when picking them. But that does not eliminate the possibility of hitting only one target. It works almost like chain lightning but it's impossible to guess which direction the breath will hit. Can sometimes hit units that are not adjacent.
ACADEMY
- Gremlins work well with hp arties rather than defense. Almost the same for gargoyles, rest benefit most from defense. Gargoyles specifically are good blockers against charging unit with extra initiative and hp.
- Sabotage can work on ballista, ammo cart, golems. Can be a nasty surprise.
- Likewise master gremlins don't heal only golems but fallen ballistas as well.
- Elemental gargoyles work well with archmage's fireball and titan's lightning. But as long as they are near you you are vulnerable to the opponent's destructive too.
- Steel golems with their unlimited retaliation can be nice with attack reducing property. And of course defense to survive.
- Magnetic golems not only channel destructive energy into healing but they also drain some of the destructive damage their surrounding allies would receive.
- Magnetics may heal from destructive but a warlock's ignite will hurt them all the same. And since they drain extra damage from nearby units the ignite damage may prove an awful lot.
- Battlemages not only shoot through your adjacent allies but also protect them from enemy battlemage shots.
- Battlemages don't apply defense reduction to all units but only their original target.
- Kshatras can be as much a friend as an enemy. If under enemy control, say seduction they will still retaliate back to enemy. But if you also have allies adjacent they will instead retaliate on them than the enemy.
- Kshatras with initiative, dash and mass haste can move ridiculously fast. With initiative and speed they can cross the battlefield and strike three stacks on their first action.
- Call storm is dependent on the enemy's initiative, the faster they are the more damage they will receive while in the storm. Same goes for units under mass decay as Final Boss already mentioned.
DUNGEON
- Assassins are not only good for spreading poison around, they are nice to detonate arcane crystals when you go summoning.
- Furies can attack and stay before their attackers if you hold ctrl.
- Apart from damage dealers they are fast blockers against incoming chargers.
- Minotaur taskmasters can prevent you from losing your morale.
- Raiders don't need to attack to deal damage, lizard bite can still do its job when you are surrounded. Note that lizard bite will hurt your enemies even if they have puppeted the raiders.
- Acid blood can hit up to three tiles away friend or foe. Can be used to wake up sleeping allies.
- Incinerate works well with vampirism.
NECROPOLIS
- If you puppet an enemy the enemy may puppet back to regain control, however his unit will have reduced initiative nor will it be able to attack your units.
- You can cast phantom forces on an enemy puppeted unit but it will be hostile.
- Phantoms can be puppeted.
- Necropolis can benefit from battle fenzy and vitality more than most factions when having high numbers of skelies, zombies and ghosts.
- Spectres are a good way to tackle orc shamans from gaining high mana from sacrifice.
- Torpor chances of triggering are ridiculously high even when the princes stack is small, never ever ever pick vampire lords. Ever.
- While phantom forces does not allow units to keep their activated abilities they still retain their passive ones. A phantom prince can still torpor.
- Vampiric units can drain life from phantom forces as if they were real.
- Liches are not just good for decay or raise dead, weakness and suffering can overwrite their respective counter-buffs. Nothing better than see a +12 attack unit to end up with -9.
- Wraiths are a natural phoenix counter. With power of speed their special shines.
- Harm touch can dispel magic immunity spell.
- Banshees are a good team with ghost dragons. They amplify their special.
INFERNO
- Of all the factions inferno benefits the most from divine strength.
- Vermin with mass haste can drain mana rapidly since they can use their special repeatedly. Work well with pit lords or any destructive caster under your control.
- Leap attacks are best used after casting confusion.
- Firehounds will automatically try to target as many enemies as possible in retaliation, they don't have a set pattern.
- Vampirism can prevent deduction, however using it afterwards will not dispel the seduction. Cleansing will. Alternatively a purge attack on the seducers.
- Seduction is hp based, the smaller the stack the less the duration.
- Chain shot can detonate arcane crystals, careful if shooting in such an area when you have units there. Even if you don't intend to attack an opponent can make you retaliate with a ranged attack.
- Searing aura works with elemental gargoyles.
- Summoned pitlords can gate for more lord stacks.
- Teleport other does not work on enemies only. Works well with teleport assault but otherwise avoid.
FORTRESS
- Soldier's luck affects not only units but runes.
- Rune of battlerage will not allow your units to attack allies when puppeted.
- Last stand is a good pair with rune of resurrection.
- Harpoon strike can be used to draw units into or across firewalls.
- Backbears and shieldguards are immune to flaming arrow or master of fire reduction.
- Backbears with battlerage can perform multiple paw strikes, however whitebears won't use their special under the rune's effect.
- Whitebears have at least 50% chance to scare a small unit regardless of stack strenth. One bear can scare 80 warmongers.
- Whitebears will not receive retaliation if their special scares at least one of their target's adjacent units.
- Berserkers's rage benefits the most from dragonform rune since it all goes to their attack. It is sweet to use battlerage first, wait, teleport them in a thick formation and then activate dragonform and rage.
- Both patriarchs and keepers can mark a unit to receive double fire damage, however a flamelord does that with 100% guarantee. And often acts before either. Mark of fire can be resisted.
- Priests work lovely with refined mana.
- Firebolt benefits from rune of dragonform or RM.
- Fire dragons may use rune of dragonform, their upgrades not.
STRONGHOLD
- Corrupt light can prevent seraphs from using dv.
- Bloodfire can help your units start with lvl 1 rage. Some units get speed bonus so they can charge.
- Luck of the barbarian does not resist spells, just decreases damage.
- Erasing stamina with mentor loses you the defense bonus but hp boost remains.
- Retribution is capped to 25%.
- Goblins should be close or ready to move near wounded cyclopes, mana lacking shamans.
- Place warmongers adjacent to key units, opponents can be dissuaded from attacking or fall subject to taunt.
- Sky daughters can start the battle with chain lightning if you have refined mana. Can be boosted with sar issus set.
- Don't forget earth daughter special, they can attack with no retaliation on slowed units.
- Chieftains increase nearby units' initiative by 1. Good around centaurs or cyclopes.
- Executioners can be used to strip morale from enemies while staying close.
- Order of the chief is a good counter to blind, can also help units move out of range when an ally has been frenzied.
- Lightning breath divides the damage between adjacent enemies, however does full damage on each when paokai retaliate. If frenzied the paokai will use lightning breath on opponents normally but will not divide damage if attacking an ally. When puppeted the lightning breath divides the damage to all targets including yourself.
- Evil eye can affect your units.
- Fear can prevent puppeted units from attacking you.
- Horde's anger can target magic immune units.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 01:31 AM |
|
|
something obvious. check out the artifact merchants before you level up. don't need to buy but its all part of coordinating a stronger hero.
____________
Protection From Everything.
dota
|
|
Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 02:24 AM |
|
|
Quote:
- Backbears
And dont forget about the Battlerage bug, which prevents from attacking all friendly units when the user is under PM
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 02:31 AM |
|
|
Bearback mountain, a force of nature Yeah strange how I forgot that one.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 07:27 AM |
|
|
- Divine guidance does not affect units under vampirism, magical immunity or freeze effect.
- Battlemages not only shoot through your adjacent allies but also protect them from enemy battlemage shots.
- Searing aura works with elemental gargoyles.
Didn't know those. Better put them to good use now .
Quote:
- Kshatras can be as much a friend as an enemy. If under enemy control, say seduction they will still retaliate back to enemy. But if you also have allies adjacent they will instead retaliate on them than the enemy.
Same goes for frenzy .
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 08:25 AM |
|
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 08:32, 01 Jun 2009.
|
@Elvin, that was a brilliant post - I was looking for little bits of expert tactics because guides are usually too general
Quote:
- Divine guidance does not affect units under vampirism, magical immunity or freeze effect.
Argh, there goes one of my ideas about a counter to ATB problem of my hero directly before enemy hero & against inferno that would drain your mana
I was hoping swift mind magic immunity to huge stack of paladins then retal strike/divine guidance/empathy all the way to one-hit kill enemies.
Seems like bug to me (why shouldn't divine guidance work on anything? ) & another thing to go against Haven
Quote:
- Magical immunity in a puppeted unit may fail if you have resistance. It is your resistance that you have to beat, not the opponent's.
Gees, as if PM wasn't bad enough already if you had ATB unluckiness of paladins' turn straight after enemy hero
Unfortunately Haven's huge reliance on one main damaging unit in late games (training paladins) makes it the main candidate for magic immunity. Magic immunity is a counter & for a counter to not work, well that sucks
What about cleansing PM, is it affected by your own magic resistance?
Quote:
- Archangel or seraph's special is better to use when their numbers are high but not necessarily early in the battle. A regeneration in endgame and ensuing resurrection can win games.
hehe, funny timing
Quote:
- High druid special allows sylvan to be proficient with every kind of magic school...
...
- Pristine unicorns duplicate every light spell except magical immunity.
Yes, these two things really affected sylvan balance in tote. I think DV was meant to help haven but really sylvan screwed the potential balancing feature. [ofc DV not affect pristines]Quote:
- Prismatic breath is affected by luck so maxing luck is a good idea when picking them. But that does not eliminate the possibility of hitting only one target. It works almost like chain lightning but it's impossible to guess which direction the breath will hit. Can sometimes hit units that are not adjacent.
A casual player may not know that prismatic breath & firehound breath & flamelord flamewave do NOT damage your own units. So you can place your own units anywhere without worrying about a retaliation dragon breath killing yourself.Quote:
- Incinerate works well with vampirism.
DUH... actually be careful of enemy vampirism if you still have sizable lvl 1/2 stack - they are a big liability.Quote:
- Vampiric units can drain life from phantom forces as if they were real.
Huh? Hope it only drains their normal damage, not full stack damage right?Quote:
- Vampirism can prevent deduction...
Actually thinking back on it, some of it lists known bugs / illogical stuff so it's good to know.
Again great post, you should get qp, perhaps a post about countering what some consider as the ultimate bad luck:
ATB unluckiness of own hero turn coming up just before enemy hero turn?
I'll mention a bit:
1. Don't cast spell that's easily counterable by enemy (like casting mass haste when enemy is dark caster that will cast mass slow).
This applies more for light/dark casters.
Consider mass light spell if enemy not have mass dark spells.
Consider mass dark spell if enemy not have mass light spells.
Perhaps mass confusion which affects all enemy units (mass cleansing only affects 4x4 area & costs 20 mana which is pitiful really)
FRENZY which cannot be cleansed (but perhaps vampirised?)
2. Empathy helps randomise hero turn. (enemy hero cannot plan to directly stay behind your own hero next turn, no matter what happens)
3. Sorcery when casting non-mass spells. (ofc possible for enemy to do same)
4. Jhora's special when casting non-mass spells.
5. Swift mind (ofc, it's really bad luck if both heroes have it & the same situation occurs BUT less likely)
6. Mass spell vs non-mass spell (altho if you cast mass spell & enemy cast mass spell, you will still end up next turn in same situation unless you have some of above)
So don't let the ATB unluckiness affect your game...
Comments welcome.
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 08:36 AM |
|
|
2 things I found out recently:
1)While Frenzied Paokai normally divides damage between enemies if it attacks your own units Lightning Breath will not trigger (only the targeted stack will recieve damage). However a Puppeted Paokai will not only trigger Lightning Breath on your units but also on itself
2)You can Phantom a Puppeted stack but the Phantom stack will be an enemy. Learned the hard way while fighting 10000 Untames with week 3 army. But then Puppeting the Phantom may help you greatly to cut down those 5k cyclop stacks rather than whacking it for 2 hours
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 01:14 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 13:44, 01 Jun 2009.
|
Thanks for the indepth response SKPRIMUS, that's exactly the kind of responses I was hoping to see. One of the things to never try with H5 is base your strategies on something that may or not work Nival's ways are mysterious.
About inferno you don't want to start with magic immunity, what you want is a nice mass spell or maybe divine guidance on crossbowmen to kill the familiars. Even so a knight will often have enough mana for 2-3 casts given lvl 20, week 6 armies and 2 artifact merchants. Remember I am talking with this specific setup as seen in the duel map, there familiars drain around 40+ mana and paladins are 25 max.
Divine guidance creates a forcefield that emits static blocking any arcane or divine interference. Ok I'm joking But I'm pretty sure it was intended, would be imbalanced if it worked with aforementioned spells.
When puppeted your units cannot only resist magical immunity but also cleansing so if you want to be sure then avoid getting resistance in the first place.
Vampiric attacks on a phantom will not drain half of the total hp the phantom would normally have, just half of their damage. But they shouldn't since phantom is supposed to have 1hp.
And no I don't get qps anymore Funny you mention the atb randomness, I had written something about it that last week. [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=23872&pagenumber=9]Jinxer had a haven vs inferno match[url] that I believed he played badly. I'm sure I have written something more indepth on the matter than my monosyllabic reply there but I forget where.
On the things you mentioned frenzy can be cleansed with vampirism or magical immunity, also lay hands.
@veco
Yeah I remember the one with puppet but didn't know the others. Phantoming a puppeted stack sounds wicked Which reminds me, you can puppet units your opponent has already puppeted. But their initiative remains crappy..
Edit: Silly detail, if you puppet an already puppeted stack it's yours again but it cannot attack the enemy
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 05:03 PM |
|
|
@ElvinQuote:
...what you want is a nice mass spell or maybe divine guidance on crossbowmen to kill the familiars...
Ah yes, swift mind divine guidance to kill some familiars is a good idea. I was actually just thinking about in-game big battles too where one may not enough mana or arties to counter & decision is even made easier now that I have been persuaded that logistics is good for haven in a real H5 game too.
About divine guidance being imbalanced if it affected units with vampirism, magic immunity or freeze - dunno about this... certainly wouldn't have thought it from logical point of view (as Azagal also mentioned.) & most times hero can cast spells with better effect [if they had the mana...]. C'mon, it's only 0.33ATB & even less than 0.5ATB of teleport assault.
So magic resistance can be double-edged sword against PM... hmm.
Please do mention more about countering ATB randomness if you can, I couldn't see much in a search & gave up after first few search pages...it may help to increase chance to win from 5% to 25% in some people's eyes
[yes mass endurance is also good non-counterable spell]
@veco
That puppet + phantom is evil. I thought PM only works on one unit at a time, was the second from succubus? If so, would have to be a huge stack to affect 5k cyclops no?
@Elvin
Two puppets don't make a (healing) hand?
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 05:31 PM |
|
Edited by veco at 17:37, 01 Jun 2009.
|
Quote:
@veco
That puppet + phantom is evil. I thought PM only works on one unit at a time, was the second from succubus? If so, would have to be a huge stack to affect 5k cyclops no?
After casting it on the Phantoms the previous one was dispelled. Mass Slow (and Sorcery) earlier ensured that my hero will act 2-3times before the Cyclops turn (ofc could also trap it with Arcane Crystals in one spot). Phantoms attack, die, Puppet original stack again, repeat. This was doable with an Academy Hero with Mana Replenish during combat and I suppose a necro with MotN would do nicely aswell. The last ~150 I made run through Firetraps untill they dropped dead
Quote:
Phantoming a puppeted stack sounds wicked
But it's completely pointless outside creeping insane stacks - unless you want another problem on your head in a duel
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 01, 2009 07:18 PM |
|
|
There isn't much more, if you start the casting, you have light and the opponent has dark you will either use one of the less obvious buffs or wait. IF you can make a key stack act just before enemy hero then mass haste is worth it, sure it will be countered but you can save yourself a nasty puppet. Swift mind can occasionally help but unless you have empathy it's not the best thing for you, if nothing else you should be hoping to act AFTER the dark caster. Only cases I have used swift mind was to deliver a nice frenzy or a mass haste so that 1-2 units play before a warlock. Anyway I consider empathy and divine guidance a must for haven, those and retribution are the best skills to aim for.
About what I meant as obvious buffs. Master of wrath gives both haste and RM so chances are you will have at least one of those spells. Abjuration with endurance or deflect cannot be countered with other than mass cleansing, even mass vulnerability is 50% weaker than endurance and a bad way to start a game. Also endurance will help in the case of puppet or frenzy. Master of blessings is good but cleansing is not as easy to get (1/3) nor will you have the mana for many mass cleansings. Still considerably appealing.
Likewise in dark master of mind gives two obvious and rather easy to get spells, slow and confusion. Worth taking even if you get one. Likewise master of curses with weakness and suffering is easy to get hold of one of those. But they are inferior to slow or confusion. And master of pain? Maybe if you have good spellpower for mass decay, vulnerability is rarely used.
Those don't necessarily mean something, just chances of what you may have. People often wait for wrath or mind and may skip the others if unlucky in levelling.
And no, after two puppets the unit isn't cleansed, I already wrote what happens.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
posted July 19, 2009 08:23 AM |
|
|
dwarves
Lets bump this thread again... here goes
Probably bit premature of me since minimum playing, or others may have thought of counters before...
I am having trouble thinking of defeating dwarves in duel with the probabilities of dwarf having:
luck - magic res/dwarf luck/solder luck (solder great for backbears/throwers/runes; good resistance equivalent to ~28% resist spell - very useful vs non-mass spells like frenzy/blind/PM)
enlight (+intel for adequate mana if reqd)
runes like ethereal,berserking,battlerage complement certain situations very well (esp. after retaliation already used up or no retaliation)
plus even magic control to steal light buffs (which also works for shooting attacks)
coupled with fine rune & greater rune for using runes more than once on a stack
ofc in case of having 2 artis of dwarven set makes it even worse where one may even not have to worry too much about non-warlock dest spells or dark spells, eg. immune to slow(boots)/blind(helm)
Dwarves can afford these artifacts too.
Just makes me believe atm that beating dwarves with might plus light/dark is a lot harder than beating them with high sp magic (dest/summon)
Enemy light magic can be stolen or reversed with dark
Enemy non-mass dark spells can have ~28% chance to be resisted where hero would lose whole turn or mass dark spells may be exorcised.
With so much anti-magic available, dwarves also have adequate spellpower to think about going light or destructive depending on availability of spells/elemental artis or my favourite mass confusion AND may not have to worry as much about spell-counters as other factions.
So I am thinking haven/inf/non-dest sylvan can have real problems vs dwarves... unless
hav/inf/syl has light agst dwarf without rune of magic control & without dark OR
hav/inf/syl has dark & staff of sar issus vs dwarf without exorcism rune & without light?
atm one thing I would like to do is attempt to measure army strength of each faction (with hero) using hotseat duel where heroes only defend (assuming heroes magic is equally effective which originates from thinking what if one has imba light combo of div str/cleaning/defer missus/immune/res): dwarves with runes are just great like each creature casts its own spell.
I'm hoping to be wrong on many things here
If so, please shoot me down with flaming arrows 
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted July 19, 2009 11:17 AM |
|
|
Thanks, was planning to write something one of these days so good timing. Actually might/light/summoning is the safest way against them - at the same time it is the hardest and requires tactical prowess. I don't like dealing in possibilities and dark/destructive effectiveness is too random for my tastes, reason is dwarven luck, rune of immunity and magical immunity so it can be hit and miss.
Let's take them one by one.
Destructive may find you with half his units immune half of the time so unless you have dungeon it is tricky. That said academy's motw plus warlock's luck can do miracles and pack a punch in a short time period so I would easily consider it if I got a good setup and arties.
Dark on the other hand is easy to counter with light, decay can be countered with rune of immunity, if you frenzy or puppet they will have a high defense so they are not likely to be hurt. Also if they use battlerage before you puppet them the rune will not harm their allies even if it shows they can attack. BUT it is a good way to counter their mass spells - haste, RM, divine strength. I normally would avoid but it is pretty useful with factions like inferno that requires special gameplay. Can't afford to have them buff themselves nonstop or it will be the death of you. Note that vampirism can be stolen like light buffs.
Light can allow you to buff yourself at the same rate and toughens your army that is necessary for an endurance match. If you want to avoid them getting an edge cast the same mass spells, they can still steal them but won't gain something out of it. And mass cleansing can steal multiple buffs from them anyway. Just be careful if you want to cast regeneration without knowing if they have the rune. Also about their own light regeneration may be your worst enemy. Make sure to kill off thanes or they'll be back soon enough, otherwise try to stun, slow or otherwise mess their atb. Further bonuses to having light is stormwind and fire resistance.
Summoning is not bad but I'd only consider with necro, academy and dungeon. May not be enough alone so have it as a secondary school or add some might to it. Firetrap can be tackled by resistance or immunity, same for hive, barrier always requires 3 tiles in a row so they can block you from using it, arcane crystal requires an opening(though by passes resistance), phantoms are not bad but you'll need good timing. And of course you can expect them to have a good array of light that increases their strength a lot more than summoning can increase yours. Even a phoenix's effectiveness is questionable, they die too slowly. Only use that one when they are badly weakened and your victory will be sealed.
Anyway haven, sylvan do pretty fine against them, only inferno seems to face an uphill battle are requires excellent commend of the demon forces. Don't consider our match, I had unlucky atb then and dark is 2% chance to get, getting good mass dark is just as rare. Rare possibility.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
|
|
posted July 19, 2009 12:47 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Further bonuses to having light is stormwind and fire resistance.
Stormwind works against teleporting units?
____________
In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
