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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 25, 2009 01:34 AM |
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Quote:
[but keeping in mind that more artis in chaos can skewer the results badly & what could be good in many cases may fail to enemy combination of artis - part of unpredictability of chaos ]
Available artifacts are a major influence on my skill build. Harder to anticipate opponent arties though, at best you can weigh the odds of when it is a good idea to go destructive.
For instance specializing on fire spells with fortress is cool but you know that if opponent gets fire protection arties he'll be sure to prefer them as opposed to others. Or lack of elemental boosters and spells of 1-2 elements will dissuade me from going destructive if only because the opponent may get the right elemental protections. Then your chances automatically are diminished. If opponent has orcs and your dark spells are frenzy, vampirism and slow going solely for dark is a risk due to chance for anti-frenzy/anti-slow dwarven set.
Basically don't put all your eggs in one basket 
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted November 25, 2009 02:16 AM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 22:27, 27 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
...Basically don't put all your eggs in one basket
Part of the reason why I distrust dest syl...others seem to like it but I also had bad experience with trying for swift-mind (dun) ruining levelling in my 2nd 5th ever game...however with imbue mod to delay hero 0.25 turns to RoA/cast spell after high-druids channelling, it may be serendipitous
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted November 26, 2009 10:04 PM |
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Building on that, why not have 2 (3?) artie selection areas?
By that I mean, first picking one of 3 variants for, let's say, the relic, TP scroll and 2 minors, and then one of 3 variants for 2 majors and 2 minors. These picks would be independent of each other.
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In the darkness, a blind man is the best guide; in an age of madness, look to the madman to lead the way.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted November 26, 2009 10:08 PM |
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What, you don't like getting 3 swords and 4 rings in one area, elemental boosters in the second and my bathrobe and other Sp boosters in third when playing orcs?
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none of my business.
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted November 26, 2009 10:19 PM |
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Not as much as I should, probably though it would still be possible, there aren't more items per player involved.
Elvin and mass cleansing: Well, it has to have a counter, or it's too strong.
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In the darkness, a blind man is the best guide; in an age of madness, look to the madman to lead the way.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 26, 2009 11:47 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 00:00, 27 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
What, you don't like getting 3 swords and 4 rings in one area, elemental boosters in the second and my bathrobe and other Sp boosters in third when playing orcs?
Don't underestimate the power of two Sar-Issus Regalia in combination with Might Over Magic and Sky daugthers...sq still bears the scars I think.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 27, 2009 12:48 AM |
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Rotten's idea sounds good but I fear 30+ spellpower warlocks that way
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted November 27, 2009 10:18 PM |
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Well, games involving dungeon tend to be short, and the damage would be quite... spectacular, but I'd fear a 30+ knowledge wizard even more. Those mini-arties can be a right pain in the snowy bottom.
Anyway, maybe one could cap Irresistible at Advanced too.
In the end, this is your map, there's no need for me to spew out suggestions like Ceausescu.
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In the darkness, a blind man is the best guide; in an age of madness, look to the madman to lead the way.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 02, 2010 07:48 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:43, 03 Mar 2010.
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It's been discussed before but I don't think anyone made a comprehensive spellcasting guide. I have already written something about School Selection so here I will focus on the casting sequence, what to cast first, what to save for later, how to respond to enemy spells and so on.
In the beginning you should almost always prefer a mass spell to a single one. The main reasons for this are:
A) The opponent will have cast two mass spells by the time you cast a second single spell.
B) It may be resisted or be less effective than a mass spell. Even with 15% resistance it's 1/7 games and it can lose you the game if the opponent secures a good advantage early on.
C) With a mass spell you kinda force your opponent to go mass himself lest he lags behind.
The only cases where you'd rather risk a single spell/ability is when you are about to face a devastating attack such as a champion's charge or a thunderthane with battlerage. However in 99% of the cases the safer choice is mass endurance even if it initially doesn't look that way. You may not have the time to cast it later and fall into a vicious circle trying to keep up.
Now assuming you have each and every mass buff which would you start the game with? Let's start with the light buffs.
LIGHT
Haste is the spell everyone expects, especially if your units have battle frenzy. Puts a lot of actual as well as psychological pressure on the opponent and may cause a key unit to act JUST before his hero. For instance if you see an archangel playing after his necromancer you should probably risk a mass haste and hope the archangel will be bumped a place ahead, the alternative is a painful puppet. But haste is also the easiest to counter so don't be quick to use it if opponent plays after you, a mass slow will negate the effect and waste half a hero action.
Divine strength is a less used spell and less likely to be countered. The reason is that lvl 1 dark has three spells from which mass slow is always preferred. It is quite an underrated spell, if you do the math it raises an army's average damage immensely. It just lacks the lovely initiative bonus people are so used to plus the common reason to pick its mastery is cleansing that isn't always useful against the faction you face and appears less frequently in the guild.
Mass endurance in my mind is the best way to start unless you want to end a game as quickly as possible. It has no actual counter and protects you even from yourself in the case of dark. The damage reduction is very noticeable.
Cleansing you obviously won't start the game with, however you could consider to save it for later if your opponent has already cast a mass spell and you can retaliate with another. Reason for this is simple, mass cleansing can strip multiple buffs/curses at a time. Of course by the time you cast it you may argue that they will have served their purpose but you will already be fully buffed and the opponent suddenly naked.
Mass deflect missile is.. very situational. You'll have to be on the defensive and it only gives ranged protection so you'll only find it useful against heavy ranged forces or a super powerful ballista. And since ranged units normally have halved damage unless you are close it's something you can save for later after you've used your standard buffs.
Righteous might is another solid start, especially with swift mind. Starting the game with 12x5% bonus damage is monstrous, of course your units should hope to have a favourable atb as well. Charging units can get blocked, units after enemy hero may be controlled, enemy shooters may weaken you first. Or opponent may counter with mass suffering which effectively cripples you.
DARK
Based on the above you should have an idea of what to do. Mass slow/suffering are the riskiest ones unless the opponent lacks light as a native school - still in the duel map everything is possible. Mass weakness like divine strength is rather underrated and people should learn to use it more often. The other two are a bit different.
Mass vulnerability is strictly an endfight spell when you have established your advantage and want to avoid the opponent prolonging the game. Factions like academy can always pull off surprises so vulnerability is just the spell for them. The neat thing is that the reduction stacks so you can spam it nonstop till all enemy units reach 0 defense.
Mass decay.. Is pretty sweet if you have good spellpower and possibly emerald slippers, it hurts and stings. It also doesn't have counters other than mass cleansing and even that may not come before decay does its job. Also considering that most like starting with haste and possibly good morale it's even more effective. But without slippers it's best to bide your time.
Mass confusion is always awesome, that is unless opponent can charge you with 2+ units. But if opponent is defensive or can't come to you fast it can be a handy tool. Even if opponent uses magic immunity he'll lose the ability to amass buffs so you still gain something.
Now some tips about the single spells. Possible alternatives are teleport though rarely, frenzy, puppet, phoenix, firetrap, barrier, crystal.
Frenzy is often a good choice if enemy hero doesn't play immediately after, even so he may lack magical immunity. But careful for empathy atb bumps since they can mess up everything.
Puppet unless vs orcs/dungeon is pretty risky and especially so if you don't have 20+ spellpower. Initiative reduction will drop the unit's turn and your timing will be off.
Blind is oh so easy to counter so not much to say. Opponent casts stone spikes and your lips curl into a frown.
A phoenix really depends, it's a hit/miss situation. Not because of elemental balance since it's quite a risk, the usual danger is the case of the opponent having dark, cold death, seduction, fear, stun or enough might to take it down fast. Then there's stormwind that hurts it a lot. This is better to reserve for when opponent has been weakened and you just have to outlast him. To cast immediately you'd better have a ridiculous spellpower.
Firetrap can be pretty awesome, not only does it do impressive damage but also causes the opponent to take risks or avoid the easy pathways. The only real counters are magic immunity and dwarven luck with the latter not something to depend on. It's easier to use with motw but generally I'll admit that mass still works out better in the long run.
Blade barrier is another possibility but only if you are about to be smashed to tiny pieces by a charging unit. Same thing can be said about arcane crystal and summon hive with the latter harder to get the right timing unless you have amazing spellpower. But against thunder thanes that were about to erase half your army with battlerage it can be brilliant. Of course it is possible that another unit will intervene and destroy the hive or that you will miscalculate and the thanes will act first. Then there's phantom forces that again depends a lot on timing and the first attack may kill it, however it can be a good way to protect your titans and deliver a good retaliation should the opponent miss.
In truth non of these spells are statistically worthwhile, they won't give you a strong beginning. But given the right timing they can buy you time.
If you are a destructive caster your start will depend on spellpower as well as the element mastery.
If your primary concern is damage then your best option is fireball, implosion and meteor shower though the latter is inferior to both if we count ignite.
Lightning spells are also powerful but lack area of effect damage and chain lightning can't compare to a lvl 5 spell so usually takes the backseat. Normal lightning is something to fall back on when mana is low, as for its mastery I tend to avoid.
That is for pure magical damage, if you want to combine magic with might then deep freeze may prove more effective than implosion since it will boost the opponent's physical vulnerability. That will require good timing but freeze mastery can help with that. Still fireball can both halve enemy armour and cause ignite so it's your best bet.
If you have less focus on spellpower then you will likely depend on ice spells since they give higher base damage than the rest but can also freeze targets for a short amount of time. And of course there's cold death. Circle of winter is a nice cheap way to kill high lvl units but otherwise circle is a poor way to start, not enough impact. Even its freezing effect gets divided amongst the targets it hits.
A little tip about orcs, your best bet on taking them down is using your best spellpower dependent spells with fire or ice mastery. That would be fireball, implosion, deep freeze and lightning. Using circle of winter or meteor shower will normally result in failure, they don't pack enough impact and the rage reduction doesn't help. Another necessity is to focus fire with both spells and units.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted March 03, 2010 01:27 PM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 13:29, 03 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
...Haste is the spell everyone expects, especially if your units have battle frenzy....
hehe, not really "everyone" expects because your sentence which I quote below is what I expect too...Quote:
...Mass endurance in my mind is the best way to start unless you want to end a game as quickly as possible....
I actually "thought" I disagreed strongly when I first read that mass endurance is the best start sentence, but then I re-read it & I actually agree...it's just that you emphasised some words in a way I didn't expect
Yup mass cleansing can be such a great boon if hero has a good amount of mana (eg. wizard/ranger/demonlord)...
mass deflect is best vs ballista or turtleQuote:
...Righteous might is another solid start, especially with swift mind...
yup I'll add that empathy may also speed up your hero so that mass RM first-up is a real option if the hero goes before some of his/her most damaging stacks
Quote:
...Mass weakness like divine strength is rather underrated and people should learn to use it more often...
yeah I guess it depends on where each hero sits on atb...actually I should also learn to use summoning spells other than phoenix/arcane armour/raise dead/fire trap more often Anyway yah summoning or single-target spells need to work with sorcery and/or empathy so as to avoid the 2 mass vs 1 single problem.
one thing more...a case may be put forth for start with motw?Quote:
...A phoenix really depends, it's a hit/miss situation...
I"m thinking phoenix first up may be useful against a turtle tooQuote:
...If your primary concern is damage then your best option is fireball, implosion and maybe meteor shower though the latter doesn't give you as much concentrated fire as the other two...
um meteor is same dmg as fireball but I assum you're meaning fireball with MoF and maybe ignite which means  yeah baby.
I have found that a first-up PM helps with "pacing" as well whereas a first-up mass endurance sometimes made me feel like half a turn or more behind what I wanted to be in terms of hero casting.
yup your post was good thinking if one had all the buffs...but the most interesting question in my mind is when one only has the **** spells (like haste/endurance/deflect missile/teleport/res or fist/wasp/blade/elemental) & no dark counter & the chances of hero getting dark magic skill is 2% plus the opponent has some good spells...having both haste + RM in town (or slow/confusion or weak/suffering) is a lot different than the aforementioned combos of bad spells ...but then bad spell availability would be the BEST time for a what-the-heck or bonkers build
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2011 12:28 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:30, 06 Jan 2011.
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Practical Tips for Quick Learners
First and foremost pay attention to your Skills.
Always pick a magic school, might alone can prove insufficient.
Facing a melee heavy faction? Get defense. Facing a magic user? Stock up on extra speed, luck, morale. Defense is still welcome, preserving your units means more short-term damage. Are you a summoning or destructive spellcaster? Sorcery and enlightenment are a must.
Summoning is a poor choice versus speedy factions, it takes time to wield properly and you want immediate results.
Then comes the matter of Initiative.
If the battle can be determined on the very first round consider swift mind, otherwise skip. Keep in mind that it can be unreliable at times.
Pay attention to enemy hero atb - buffs, curses and summons can all be countered if he plays right after you. Check if he has leadership, empathy could shift his position.
Then look closely at his key units. If one is about to severely harm you by all means stop it, however if the threat is not immediate go for mass spells. They pay off in the long run and are faster to cast.
If your key unit(s) play right after him, mass haste is a good risk but by no means foolproof. Divine guidance and to a lesser extent magical immunity are viable options, especially if you are uncertain of what to expect.
Always complement your unit actions with your hero's, no sense wasting spells on a unit you can greatly weaken with your own. First focus on high damage / initiative units and weak support units, it will greatly boost your survivability.
Do not use summons early unless you can withstand ridiculous amounts of damage.
If you face a destructive caster focus on the units with most hp, a few well placed spells later you may be unable to bring them down.
Control the flow of the battle and keep surprises for the Endgame.
Keep an eye on mana reserves. If your opponent is about to run out try to lure him into exhausting them even if your actions do not bring immediate benefit. Then he'll be powerless against your little surprises.
Summons are good for stalling, if opponent has high spellpower he may try to lure you to his side where you will be within their striking distance.
Consider resurrection and raise dead, cover every dead stack you can.
If opponent has destructive avoid close formations so that he cannot use area of effect spells. Targetting individual units one by one is not only slower but costs more mana.
As soon as the mana is over consider hero direct attacks before engaging enemy units. If you can kill him faster that way than he can he will be forced to come to you. In the situation where he is attacking you directly and you have mana to raise dead prioritize the low tiers, they are harder to kill by hero attacks.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 06, 2011 04:23 AM |
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Does anyone duel anymore?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2011 09:48 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 09:48, 06 Jan 2011.
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Had a few with veco, Joonas and Primus. The latter is actively seeking duelists
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 06, 2011 10:02 AM |
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I would duel, but I wouldn't be much opposition I'm afraid.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 07, 2011 01:25 AM |
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Swamp only way to get better is to play.
Elv I have the feeling my time zone won't cooperate with primus even if I went to the effort to install hamachi.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted January 07, 2011 03:37 AM |
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@Phoenix, are you askin' or are you asking?
I'm sure SwampLord would fit your timezone. I can also use Ubi...but mostly, I don't have time to randomly wait around unfortunately & no-one likes it when I smash them with no magic schools.
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 07, 2011 04:30 AM |
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I'm running on EST and have a pretty flexible schedule, so I would certainly be up for some dueling; like I said though won't be much of a challenge for a while. Still, though, if you guys want to game, I'm up for it. Could get some pointers from the pros to help with the casting as well.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Deathy
Known Hero
Angels Galore
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posted January 07, 2011 05:00 AM |
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how many duelers does this place have left anyway? and how many are from GMT?
there seemed to be alot more back during the tournaments.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 07, 2011 01:33 PM |
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Quote:
@Phoenix, are you askin' or are you asking?
hehe. Nope. My currently limited video game time is going to single player games.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 07, 2011 01:35 PM |
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Tsk tsk keep the chat in the random duels thread
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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