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| Thread: The OSM Debaters' Guild |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2009 06:29 PM |
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Doesn't seem right to be honest.
Since this seems too much like school drama 
I mean, even "picking sides" is enough to point this out. The world is, of course, not black & white. And so am I.
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Lord_Woock
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posted February 03, 2009 07:03 PM |
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Quote:
not black & white. And so am I.
What does your ethnicity got to do with this?
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2009 07:11 PM |
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oh come on, this isn't the VW.
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antipaladin
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posted February 03, 2009 08:12 PM |
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okay,so just you and me now eh mv? so whats the topic?
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JollyJoker
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posted February 03, 2009 09:02 PM |
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Of course I don't know Death's point of view, but mine is the following.
I don't have anything at all against a debate for the sake of the art of debating. Coke versus Pepsi? Why not. While this sounds like school, with judges and all, it's still a light-hearted thing.
However. I'm not going to get exiled, if people post opinions I have a serious issue with and can make reasonable, logical points against. If, for example, someone would come up with a KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO I'd quote and counter that. In the pertaining thread. Not in any debaters guild. And if an argument would arise I would not back down. Even if people don't like "the long debates".
I expect that Death will see that exactly the same way.
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Asheera
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posted February 03, 2009 09:09 PM |
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Quote:
However. I'm not going to get exiled, if people post opinions I have a serious issue with and can make reasonable, logical points against. If, for example, someone would come up with a KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO I'd quote and counter that. In the pertaining thread. Not in any debaters guild. And if an argument would arise I would not back down. Even if people don't like "the long debates"
But if that quote is itself off-topic, you shouldn't continue it by replying to it. It will lead to even more off-topicness.
For example, let's say someone says exactly what you said ("KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO") in the LGBT Community thread. Obviously that thread wasn't made to discuss God's point of view or some other fanatic's views on gays. That post itself is off-topic and it is better if people don't reply to it (maybe give a penalty in this case since it's also offensive?) to avoid going even more away from the original topic.
Or another example is the What is Love thread: it wasn't made for discussions on the semantics of love, it was more like made for people to share their love stories. Therefore that debate wasn't welcome in that thread, don't get me wrong, debates are good as long as they fit in a respective thread. If there's no such thread and you want to argue about that just start a new one (or post in here since it was created now...)
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2009 09:37 PM |
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@Ash: what has this got to do with judges and "points"?
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JollyJoker
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posted February 03, 2009 09:49 PM |
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Quote:
For example, let's say someone says exactly what you said ("KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO") in the LGBT Community thread. Obviously that thread wasn't made to discuss God's point of view or some other fanatic's views on gays. That post itself is off-topic and it is better if people don't reply to it (maybe give a penalty in this case since it's also offensive?) to avoid going even more away from the original topic.
Or another example is the What is Love thread: it wasn't made for discussions on the semantics of love, it was more like made for people to share their love stories. Therefore that debate wasn't welcome in that thread, don't get me wrong, debates are good as long as they fit in a respective thread. If there's no such thread and you want to argue about that just start a new one (or post in here since it was created now...)
It's both straight on topic, and while in the first example the phrasing is a bit extreme you can easily change the phrase to a more moderate tone. For example, a gay person could just report of some harrassment and then other(s) could simply comment positively on that citing the Bible. Same thing. Fully ON-topic.
The second thing is fully on topic as well. MM started this thread rather differently that what you claim here - he shared what he didn't understand with "love" - and it's named what is love not without a reason.
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antipaladin
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posted February 03, 2009 11:33 PM |
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USA vs the World
Hmmm,its a though subject indeed,but I don't think USA is a big enemy.
Once you go past the fact that they hold monopoly over many markets,and try to intervene with every aspect possibly they do have a moral legit justification to each one and one of them.
The fact that Barrack Obamma won as the first black president in the states is a good thing,because it shows a matter of acceptance within the American people. I know and you know that racism still lives and unfortunately it's immortal,but its a tremendous step forward. Furthermore did any of you saw the movie Equilibrium ?
It's about a world of future where emotion is a big crime,punished by death. Hmm,i don't see ourselves too far from such future if things are going conservative.Did I just drived you off topic? yes I did,why you ask yourself? because simply i employed a Jedi mind trick which is the counter attack to the propaganda people use in general to demoralize USA,and lower it status among the world,many country's and factions gain from it,i gain give you at least 5 different factions and country's that will benefit from USA status death.
And the shoe thing? Disgraceful. i would execute that guy just for that,and blow Iraq off the map. Call me Crazier, call me Extremist,But The president is the face of the country, by publicly humiliating Bush,doesn't matter what kind of president he was,that young journalist just humiliated the entire United states of America!
It's one thing to disagree,and completely another to through a shoe. I'll be running out of shoe's rather quickly that way..its expensive nowadays..
(what do you think?)
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types in obscure english
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pandora
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posted February 03, 2009 11:55 PM |
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@ JJ - I'm still not sure why you think you'd be exiled, that's not what I understood at all. In the extreme example that you gave, the person posting that would be penalized and if they continued to post that type of thing - they'd be silenced, so it would make for a horribly one sided debate or discussion
I've already stated my thoughts about when a new thread is better than continuing in the old, so I won't repeat myself there.
In any case, why get riled up about this at all when we don't really know how it will all play out? To me the idea of points is pretty much the same idea as QP's - to some people they're a nice bit of icing on the cake, to others they're really not important - you're not trying to earn them anyways, but if you get them its really not a fuss.
I think if you enjoy debating, and have fun with this idea - then it really shouldn't matter if there are points, peanuts or stars involved.
@ Father:
Quote:
6) Relgion vs. Science (Oh dear, have the judges and mods in active mode, lol)
This one's too easy, science will win the early rounds - as we mods will use our scientific mod tools to penalize and silence when the debate goes insane, eventually leading to us locking the thread. But religion will win in the end (I won't tell you how, but those that picked science will see on judgement day  )
ps: I'm not even a tiny bit serious! To any of you who are all fired up and ready to fight me about the last comment, it was a joke!
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted February 04, 2009 01:11 AM |
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Quote:
1) USA vs. The World
Oh, you don't even want to know what I think about America...
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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mvassilev
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posted February 04, 2009 02:05 AM |
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JJ:
Quote:
The next posters would express either their agreement or disagreement, after a time the debate would become a bit more general, and as soon as it went into an actual discussion of the pros and cons of death penalty it would be outsourced, since people now cannot simply state their opinion anymore without having to suffer more than 3-liners that come with a quote or two.
That's what the judges are for.
And just because we can have debates in here doesn't mean we can't have debates elsewhere. It's just that this would be a good place to have nice, orderly, formal debates.
Pan:
Thanks. 
TheDeath:
Quote:
I mean, even "picking sides" is enough to point this out. The world is, of course, not black & white. And so am I.
There can be more than two teams. Plus there can be some variety within a team. For example, if we were to argue abortion, some of the pro-choicers would argue that a woman's right to her body is inalienable, while others might argue from a more utilitarian viewpoint - but both would be on the same team.
Father:
The debates are supposed to be serious OSM stuff. Thanks for your suggestions, though.Quote:
4) Tavern vs. the OSM (enough said here, I'm sure we can get a good one going)
We tried that before, at the HC Olympics. It didn't turn out that well - Asheera got rather angry.
Everyone:
Less arguing about whether the Guild should exist, and more signing up!
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Eccentric Opinion
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted February 04, 2009 04:50 AM |
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Edited by william at 04:50, 04 Feb 2009.
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Alright, I'll sign up, although I'm not as good as a debater as most other people in the OSM are.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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mvassilev
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posted February 04, 2009 04:57 AM |
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Excellent, William! 
And how about the rest of you debaters? TheDeath? Come on, there'll be plenty of "shades of gray". Asheera? It'll be structured debate - and no danger of going off-topic, either. And we need some judges.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 04, 2009 07:55 AM |
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USA versus the world
Quote:
The fact that Barrack Obamma won as the first black president in the states is a good thing,because it shows a matter of acceptance within the American people.
It just goes to show that the US will stop short of nothing to make sure the blacks will have to do the dirty work and the really hard jobs.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 04, 2009 07:59 AM |
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Quote:
@ JJ - I'm still not sure why you think you'd be exiled, that's not what I understood at all. In the extreme example that you gave, the person posting that would be penalized and if they continued to post that type of thing - they'd be silenced, so it would make for a horribly one sided debate or discussion
I thought there was something like freedom of opinion. Do you really think that if someone holds their own, just citing the Bible, you can penalize and silence them? That would be awfully wrong, wouldn't it?
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pandora
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posted February 04, 2009 01:27 PM |
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You're fine with hate speech on a forum often visited by children, but take issue with moderators stating that they would hold to the forum rules?
Your quote that I referred to is:
Quote:
KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO
In the Code of Conduct it states:
Quote:
1) NO insults, abuse, racism or sexism.
Insult is a remark that undermines another person. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions and opinions rather than their personality. For example: instead of saying who they are ("you suck" or "you are an idiot") say what you think about their opinions/actions and why ("Your post about me is wrong because I never said that heroes 4 is a bad game" or "I disagree with your opinion because centaurs have more hit points than gnolls"). This simple rephrasing strategy can resolve many conflicts and fights before they even happen, both online and in life.
Racism is any remark that associates negativity with a person or group of people based on their nationality, ethnicity, religion, race, place of origin, or skin color. Sexism is any remark that associates negativity with a person or group of people based on their gender or sexual orientation.
No matter how many times the freedom of speech issue flag gets waved here, I'm still shocked by it in examples like this. How can people believe that the right to spew hateful uneducated comments is somehow more important than a person's right to be who they are without fear of those who condemn them?
I'm sorry - but if this was a forum for mature discussion rather than gaming, and if there were warnings when registering that you might read unsettling opinions then I could see you taking issue with what I said. But this is a gaming forum frequented by impressionable young kids...
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Lith-Maethor
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posted February 04, 2009 01:54 PM |
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*cracks knuckles*
pretty much what pandora says... but i just couldn't leave this one alone 
1) USA vs. The World: - The World, we have seniority and more mistakes to learn from
2) Heroes III vs. Heroes V - Heroes V, but its ultimately a matter of taste
3) Electric toothbrushes vs. Manual - Electric... for many many many many reasons
4) Tavern vs. the OSM - OSM, no contest
5) Football vs. Soccer - Association Football, historically both games have the right to be called "football" (peasant games, played on foot instead of horseback) ...but lets face it, its "foot" and "ball"
6) Relgion vs. Science - Science, until we walk away shaking our heads in frustration
7) God vs. Satan - God, according to the bible anyway... not just now either
8) Coke vs Pepsi - Coke Zero or Pepsi Twist
9) Member/Mod Battle - Mods win by default... better yet, Val wins by default
10) Yellow stars vs. Red Stars - ...wait, which is what again?
...yeah, you can get back on topic now 
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 04, 2009 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
You're fine with hate speech on a forum often visited by children, but take issue with moderators stating that they would hold to the forum rules?
Your quote that I referred to is:
Quote:
KILL ALL GAYS LIKE GOD COMMANDS US TO
In the Code of Conduct it states:
Quote:
1) NO insults, abuse, racism or sexism.
Insult is a remark that undermines another person. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions and opinions rather than their personality. For example: instead of saying who they are ("you suck" or "you are an idiot") say what you think about their opinions/actions and why ("Your post about me is wrong because I never said that heroes 4 is a bad game" or "I disagree with your opinion because centaurs have more hit points than gnolls"). This simple rephrasing strategy can resolve many conflicts and fights before they even happen, both online and in life.
Racism is any remark that associates negativity with a person or group of people based on their nationality, ethnicity, religion, race, place of origin, or skin color. Sexism is any remark that associates negativity with a person or group of people based on their gender or sexual orientation.
No matter how many times the freedom of speech issue flag gets waved here, I'm still shocked by it in examples like this. How can people believe that the right to spew hateful uneducated comments is somehow more important than a person's right to be who they are without fear of those who condemn them?
I'm sorry - but if this was a forum for mature discussion rather than gaming, and if there were warnings when registering that you might read unsettling opinions then I could see you taking issue with what I said. But this is a gaming forum frequented by impressionable young kids...
This is a bit amusing because if you think consequently about it you'll have to ban the Bible because that's what stand in it.
It's not THAT much different from demanding to execute all child abusers.
Okay, let me add something: if you leave out the caps and the hatefulness, but just have a calm reasoning, like, God wouldn't want them to exist and they would be sinners and should forswear their evil ways lest god wouldn't smite them - can you really ban that? I don't think so.
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pandora
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posted February 04, 2009 02:39 PM |
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I've replied to you in this thread: Here
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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