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| Thread: Heroes Community Magic Set: Development |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Evasion
Famous Hero
Groovy!
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posted May 20, 2009 10:17 PM |
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Nope, but I thought magic had HP, like pokémon, yugioh and all of these things. 
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R
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 20, 2009 10:52 PM |
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Maybe rename the Planeswalker type Moderator?
 - we should be working on an expansion of the game, not pretending we're creating a completely new game by spray-painting an already existing one. Having a cycle of planeswalkers based on moderators is good though.
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I think, for the Rarity issue, we should take an approach similar to Kamigawa block: legendary creatures at uncommon, and some legendary-rewarding mechanics to balance the inherent downside of the Legend rule.
This depends strongly on the amount of members we want to portray. I feel that having so many as to encroach on uncommon territory is an error. Dedicating a fourth or third of the rare slots to Legendary Creature interpretations of HC members will be plenty and won't force a "Legends matter" mechanical theme on us.
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Finally, I think the set should have a mood like Lorwyn: lightly amusing, but not clownish like Unglued.
Agreed.
Also, my arguments against yellow stars as a counter-based mechanic:
- having two common counter types clutters the ingame situation. This may be less of an issue in real-life play, when you can use different-colored beads or different dice to track each value, but who's going to print these out for real-life play? If we actually use the set, then it's most likely for MWS, which doesn't give you more than one counter counter ( ) per card.
- "yellow star counter" is a terribly long name for a counter. This will noticably reduce available textbox space on any cards we dedicate to this theme.
- the flavor of the act of posting can be translated to game terms in other, less problematic and (at least) equally fun ways.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 20, 2009 11:03 PM |
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Quote:
Also, my arguments against yellow stars as a counter-based mechanic:
- having two common counter types clutters the ingame situation. This may be less of an issue in real-life play, when you can use different-colored beads or different dice to track each value, but who's going to print these out for real-life play? If we actually use the set, then it's most likely for MWS, which doesn't give you more than one counter counter () per card.
- "yellow star counter" is a terribly long name for a counter. This will noticably reduce available textbox space on any cards we dedicate to this theme.
- the flavor of the act of posting can be translated to game terms in other, less problematic and (at least) equally fun ways.
Counter-arguments:
-Having two common counter types isn't that complicated. I think you're exaggerating a bit. So the players have to think and be organized; big deal.
-"Yellow Star Counter" isn't that long, and either way it's an insignificant point. It's not like we're publishing these cards and need to worry about the cost of ink. We could even just call them "Yellow Stars" and we could understand it just as well.
-It's not problematic. Red Stars are for creatures, whereas Yellow Stars are for land. If we're going to make Red Stars as counters, it's thematically consistent to make Yellow stars as counters.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 20, 2009 11:16 PM |
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-"Yellow Star Counter" isn't that long, and either way it's an insignificant point. It's not like we're publishing these cards and need to worry about the cost of ink. We could even just call them "Yellow Stars" and we could understand it just as well.
Actually, the amount of text doesn't alter the amount of ink used since the size of the card is a constant. What does change is the readability of the card. That does not cease to be a concern with staying digital. Also, not calling a counter a counter would cause confusion similar to creating nontoken copies of permanents.
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-It's not problematic. Red Stars are for creatures, whereas Yellow Stars are for land. If we're going to make Red Stars as counters, it's thematically consistent to make Yellow stars as counters.
You call it thematic consistency, I call it haphazard perpetuating of unnecessary patterns. It also creates a certain inconsistency between the mechanics and the flavor: on HC, both red and yellow stars are properties of members. Now, for the sake of thematic consistency, you want to port one of them from members to forums?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 20, 2009 11:39 PM |
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Actually, the amount of text doesn't alter the amount of ink used since the size of the card is a constant. What does change is the readability of the card. That does not cease to be a concern with staying digital. Also, not calling a counter a counter would cause confusion similar to creating nontoken copies of permanents.
It's a trivial argument either way. Who cares if there's three more words on a card. And no, everybody on the HC would know what "Yellow Star" means. You just need to strap a definition to it in the way Magic puts definitions on new abilities in the booklet that comes with a new set.
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You call it thematic consistency, I call it haphazard perpetuating of unnecessary patterns.
I don't know what that even means.
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It also creates a certain inconsistency between the mechanics and the flavor: on HC, both red and yellow stars are properties of members. Now, for the sake of thematic consistency, you want to port one of them from members to forums?
This is again a trivial argument and I really have no idea why you're arguing it. Red Stars are attached to posts, which are part of threads, which come from members. It would be perfectly fine to incorporate Red Stars on other cards as well. I thought Yellow Stars would be a good idea for land because land is the basic unit of production in Magic just like Yellow Stars represent the basic post count, and also because we're going to want to have lots of multicolored cards in this, so using it to add versatility to mana production would be good.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 21, 2009 12:44 AM |
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unless our set is multicolored focused we should avoid having a good deal of multicolored permanents...
as set with many multicolored cards and no coherence to that theme is like tacking on four or five abilities to a set.
A set should have some degree of simplicity. -0/-1 counters were ditched because they unnecessarily complicated the game. TS,FS,PC,Core sets are different because the former three were nostalgic, experimentative and innovating (sets based upon this) and the core sets had no cohesion anyway.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted May 21, 2009 03:38 AM |
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If you want a normal amount of gold cards, then I'd say out of 200, make forty gold. That's roughly 20% of the set, and that's a nice little group of them.
My thoughts:
-Moderators should be a creature type, like Shadowcaster (easiest example) would be Legendary Creature - Darkling Moderator. Of course, that was made up, but Hey, i'm making a point.
- Forums are definitely lands.
- I like the idea of threads being a Shrine like thing, and that it'll have mechanics based around it.
- Hopefully, we can incorporate the various aspects of the devices in place in HC, like floodprotect and qps the such. 
Now, as for the the debate of the counters, why bicker over how much space will be in the text box. Readable font goes all the way to 6 pt. Don't worry bout it.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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RTI
Adventuring Hero
Now known as Rarensu
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posted May 21, 2009 04:34 AM |
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Edited by RTI at 04:51, 21 May 2009.
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An "individual post" is represented in Magic by basically anything that resolves on the stack, namely instants & activated abilities. So we don't need a mechanic for it, Magic has this concept built right in.
No on yellow stars
Yes on 20% multicolor cards 
(as long as the mana fix doesn't include yellow stars)
No on "legend matters"
Yes on Planeswalker Moderators
Yes on Spammer creature type & mini theme
We need to take a second look at threads. They have 3 properties, IMO. They: 1 add new dynamics, 2 interact with users, and 3 eventually run down. "Enchantment - Thread" only fulfills #1, sometimes #2. Enchantments don't do a good job at #3. If we make Thread enchantments, then we should give all or most of them Vanishing N (sacrifice after N turns) as a flavor band-aid. However, it would be better IMO to think of another way to design them so that they have all three properties without additional help.
More on Vanishing Threads -
This has the added benefit of making them more interactive with Spammers & such, because you can do add-or-remove time counters. I believe that Woock's argument about multiple common counters is valid for counters that go on the same permanent type. However, each permanent type can have its own counter and this won't be confusing because no permanent will have more than 1 type of counter. For proof that this works see charge counters for non-creature artifacts and +1/+1 counters for artifact creatures during Mirrodin block.
Yes on exactly 1 type of counter per permanent type.
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Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 21, 2009 05:02 PM |
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On a different note, I suggest the original post be kept updated with whatever is already decided as well as the current issues, for easy reference.
And regarding the use of counters on lands, I'm curious as to what you can come up with that hasn't already been done and printed by the actual Magic R&D. I'm sure an interesting card design will be more convincing.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 22, 2009 12:16 AM |
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some threads last quite a while... perhaps we should induce upkeep...
perhaps... after all threads require maintenance...
and are we sticking with the current color wheel or moving around a bit...
for example black gets single creature boost.(what is more evil than dispatching minions to finish a task? and giving them tools?)
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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RTI
Adventuring Hero
Now known as Rarensu
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posted May 22, 2009 03:21 AM |
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Edited by RTI at 04:23, 22 May 2009.
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No on color-wheel shifting
Yes on thread maintainance
A Summary Of Voted Issues So Far
(I'm Counting 3-0 as majority because about half of our team doesn't vote. It could still theoretically be a tie but not realistically.)
Closed Issues
5-0 QP Counters On Creatures PASSED
3-0 You Make The Card Text Format PASSED
3-0 Card Power Balancing (within the set) PASSED
Open Issues
2-0 One Counter Per Permanent Type
1-1 Realistic Average Card Power
2-0 Light Mood
2-0 Set Size 200+
2-0 Less than 21% Multicolor
2-0 Forums as Lands
2-0 Threads as Enchantments
2-1 Moderators as Planeswalkers
0-2 Uncommon Legendary creatures
1-2 Yellow Star Counters
2-0 Spammer Creature Theme
0-1 Color wheel shift
As you can see, we have a number of open issues.
VOTE PEOPLE VOTE!!!
@Blizzardboy, you forgot to add Warmonger to the team.
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Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted May 22, 2009 10:01 AM |
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One Counter Per Permanent Type
Realistic Average Card Power
Light Mood
Set Size 200+
Less than 21% Multicolor
Forums as Lands
Threads as Enchantments
Moderators as Planeswalkers
Uncommon Legendary creatures
Yellow Star Counters
Spammer Creature Theme
Color wheel shift
But blizzardboy should have major word, since he created the project. Maybe we should try to set the exact Card Set size, divide amount among people involved in the project and do some color/rarity balancing.
Example:
Set will have 350 cards - 50 white, 50 black, 50 blue, 50 red, 50 green, 50 multicolored, 25 artifacts, 25 lands.
In five members, this should require each to make 10 cards from each color + few artifacts and lands. Considering rarity, one of that 10 cards should be rare, 3 uncommon and rest common.
I hope you get my point.
Anyway, we will have to solve all open issues and gather final number of members first.
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Result matters
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 22, 2009 11:05 AM |
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Quote:
Considering rarity, one of that 10 cards should be rare, 3 uncommon and rest common.
Ah, see, but then each card ends up just as common as any other!
Typically, the rarity layout is much closer to 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3. Of course, then you have Mythics. Do we want Mythics in our set?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 22, 2009 02:09 PM |
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted May 22, 2009 03:47 PM |
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Mythics are another type of rarity, right? Not sure where mechanics go nowdays, but I'm pretty convinced that all of numerous moderators and/ or users would like to be rare, so we can't easily enforce further distinction.
I also fully agree with Anakrom. As to spammers, I suggest them to be mainly kind of tokens, like Saprolings for example.
If you want to use the stars, they have to be named "star counter" and carry their own mechanic, like ice or charge counters.
From the top of my head, pretty simple yet unused mechanic is to give protection from cards with CMC less than number of stars of a permanent.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted May 22, 2009 04:18 PM |
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Some ideas for cards:
Horn of The Abyss [no cost]
Artifact (u)
You can't play Horn of The Abyss.
Whenever you reveal Horn of The Abyss from your hand or library, put the bottom card of your library in your hand.
Random Map Generator 4
Artifact (r)
T: Put a Template counter on Random Map Generator
T: Reveal X top cards from your library, where X is a number of Template counters on Random Map Generator. Put all land cards revealed this way into play under your control, then shuffle the rest into your library.
Spammer R
Creature - Human (?) Spammer (c)
Star counters can't be put on Spammer.
Whenever Spammer attacks or blocks, sacrifice it at the end of combat.
3/3
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 22, 2009 06:52 PM |
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Quote:
Lord Woock is in charge.
Wow, I am?  That's pretty big news, considering I never applied for the dictatorship post  Not that I'm gonna say no 
EDIT: On second thought, I'm no longer sure if you're serious.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 22, 2009 07:21 PM |
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I'd like to be in this thing, too, since I realy liek both card-making with the magic set editor and the HC, but I fear I don't know too much bout certain members or so
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 22, 2009 07:25 PM |
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Well, more heads to help is great and all, but fooling around with graphical mockups is not quite what we need. In-depth knowledge of how the game works and what constitutes good design is much more desirable.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 22, 2009 08:42 PM |
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2-0 One Counter Per Permanent Type
1-1 Realistic Average Card Power
2-0 Light Mood
2-0 Set Size 200+
2-0 Less than 21% Multicolor
2-0 Forums as Lands
2-0 Threads as Enchantments
2-1 Moderators as Planeswalkers
0-2 Uncommon Legendary creatures
1-2 Yellow Star Counters
2-0 Spammer Creature Theme
0-1 Color wheel shift
we need to establish what each color is doing in this set IMO... we need to string up our ideas further.what is the theme and the setting? where will flavor come from or is it just a set with forum style cards?
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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