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| Thread: Heroes Community Magic Set: Development |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted May 24, 2009 05:40 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 05:50, 24 May 2009.
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Quote:
How about this as the errata for Reaction:
Reaction takes place anytime this creature targets/is targeted by, becomes blocked by, or blocks the criteria for the Reaction, the ability counts as a triggered ability and gains the specified effect.
This is a very tricky thing to make work properly, Sith. If you include targeting as a trigger for Reaction, then there are some obvious easy combos. Use Agent of Chaos (below) with Barrenton Medic for a free +12/+0, or Eight-and-a-Half Tales for triple mana-breathing and invulnerability. Better still, reach back a bit and use Nomads en-Kor for a turn 2 infinite trample damage attack.
There are all kinds of ways to abuse a target-triggered ability. I deliberately left Reaction for only blocking so that it would be a combat mechanic, not a combo mechanic.
I would like to discuss different errata for Reaction. I don't much like the name of it; it needs a new name. My original name was "Hatred of", but the flavor is too narrow. It doesn't allow for creatures that get smaller or become invulnerable or do tricky things. But "Reaction to" sounds like something that would trigger on Targeting like Sith proposed. There must be some happy medium... ?
Also, the current rules template for Reaction doesn't really work. It looks like it does (I thought carefully about how to best write it), but in reality, when the game's rules engine tries to parse the ability, it chokes and dies. This is because you can't gain +1/+1 and you can't get first strike. To make it work as intended, you actually need two Reaction abilities, one for each type of effect. My band-aid, which was to move Gets and Gains into the ability text, doesn't work either, because there's no way to get the reminder text to refer to an incomplete sentence. If you spell out the entire sentence in the ability text, then you have defeated the purpose of using a keyword because there's no need for reminder text.
I propose a "fixed" template as follows.
Reaction to N - XYZ (whenever this creature blocks or becomes blocked by a creature that's N, it becomes XYZ until end of turn)
This doesn't allow for repeated activations, but since blocking is usually and once-per-turn affair, it will rarely come up. However, it does allow Gets and Gains to be compressed into a single template without spelling out the entire sentence.
|Agent of Chaos 1R
|Creature - Elemental Spammer
|Haste
|Reaction to Blue and/or White - +3/+0 and Trample (FAIL)
|2/1
VS
|Agent of Chaos 1R
|Creature - Elemental Spammer
|Haste
|Reaction to Blue and/or White - 5/1 with Trample
|2/1
However, this is slightly less intuitive; the creature doesn't really feel like it's growing. I would really like to see a template that can accomplish these things without feeling like a cheat. In addition, this creates additional pressure in favor of a name change.
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Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted May 24, 2009 06:00 AM |
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Well, yes, but I was giving the eratta for your version of it, not my own. Of course it could improve. There are any number of ways to give some power to it. Just some experimentation is all that is required to fix it.
Quote:
This is because you can't gain +1/+1 and you can't get first strike
Oh you most certainly can! "Target creature gets +1/+1." "Target creature gains vigilance." "This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn" I'm sorry, but you most certainly can!
How about:
Reaction to White - Protection from Black.
Reaction to White - Double Strike.
Reaction to White - Remove this card from the game, then return it to play at then end of the turn.
The Reminder text. (Whenever a spell targets this, it gains the specificed characteristic until the end of turn.)
To the more ambiguous, the Reaction reminder texts satisfies it.
Reaction to White - [CARD NAME]'s power becomes five until end of turn.
It represents that it gets truly strengthened in the moment, but it dies of later.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 24, 2009 06:21 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 06:47, 24 May 2009.
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"Beating a dead horse" - 1BR
Target card in the graveyard is brought back into play immediately. Opponit must pay 3 to bury the card. Every time the card is burried you must pay 1br to bring it back if possible, and the opponit must pay 3 to bury it again.
Quote Wars - BBB - Instant. You pick a target creature from your opponits side, your opponit picks a target creature from your side. Both are set off to the side and begin a quote war, effectively removing them from the game. If there is not at least 1 creature on both sides this spell fails.
Edit : the above cards are not serious  . I do have some good card ideas however  .
Moderator's Misjunction - Instant. 4 - Target trap, spell, or enchantment ceases to function until the owner's next turn. RBUGW - Target instant is countered.
Pandora's Box - 3 - Artifact. < (the symbol for tapping)- Anger. Target creature attacks another target creature even if they have the same owner. < Envy - Target Creature takes on the color, stats, and abilities of another target creature until its owners next turn. < Hope. Target defending creature gains +x/+y where x is the attacking creatures attack and y is the attacking creatures defense. If this card is tapped at the end of its controllers turn, remove it from the game.
Moderator's Shield - 3WW - Enchantment. Any special abilities of a creature that the enchanted creature attacks or blocks is negated.
The Blue Lady's Castle - Field Spell 2UU. Can only be cast if Pandora is on the field. All Cards are considered blue, all lands are considered islands, and all casting costs can be payed by U instead of their normal colors. All special lands lose any abilities.
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Message received.
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted May 24, 2009 06:46 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 08:03, 24 May 2009.
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Quote:
Quote:
This is because you can't gain +1/+1 and you can't get first strike
Oh you most certainly can! "Target creature gets +1/+1." "Target creature gains vigilance." "This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn" I'm sorry, but you most certainly can!
Of course you can get +1/+1 and gain first strike. I never said that.
Read our posts more carefully:
"is because you can't gain +1/+1..."
"can! Target Creature gets +1/+1."
Your statement agrees with mine.
Quote:
How about:
Reaction to White - Protection from Black.
The Reminder text. (Whenever a spell targets this, it gains the specified characteristic until the end of turn.)
Reaction to White - [CARD NAME]'s power becomes five until end of turn.
"[CARD NAME]'s power becomes five until end of turn." is not a characteristic. It's an effect. Your template doesn't allow this. If your template said,
(Whenever a spell targets this, apply the specified effect.),
then it would allow this. However, this would force you to spell out your characteristic setting ability.
"Reaction to White - [CARD NAME] gains Protection from Black."
If this is what you want, then I can accept that. I was thinking about doing that myself.
____________
Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted May 24, 2009 07:07 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 07:11, 24 May 2009.
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Let me fix those up for you, Mytical
Moderator's Misjunction WUBRG
Instant
Choose one - Counter target instant or sorcery spell, or remove target artifact or enchantment from the game.
Pandora's Box 3
Artifact
Anger - T, remove Pandora's Box from the game: two target creatures each deal damage equal to their powers to the other.
Envy - T, remove Pandora's Box from the game: target creature becomes a copy of another target creature until the beginning of its owners next turn.
Hope - T, remove Pandora's Box from the game: target blocking creature gets +X/+Y, where X is the blocked creature's power and y is the blocked creature's toughness.
Moderator's Shield 3WW
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Whenever enchanted creature blocks or is blocked by a creature, that creature loses all abilities until end of turn.
The Blue Lady's Castle 2UU
Enchantment
Play The Blue Lady's Castle only a permanent named Pandora is in play.
All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are blue.
All lands are islands. (They lose all abilities except T: add U to your mana pool)
Players may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color.
____________
Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 24, 2009 07:15 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:18, 24 May 2009.
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Sounds good but Misjunction does not remove the artifact, enchantment, or trap. Just causes it not to work... on that turn. Otherwise the rest sound MUCH better. Oh and hope would be +X/+Y of attacking creature. (Ie the blocking creature adds the attacking creatures attack and defense to its own).
____________
Message received.
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted May 24, 2009 08:01 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 08:07, 24 May 2009.
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Quote:
Sounds good but Misjunction does not remove the artifact, enchantment, or trap. Just causes it not to work... on that turn. Otherwise the rest sound MUCH better. Oh and hope would be +X/+Y of attacking creature. (Ie the blocking creature adds the attacking creatures attack and defense to its own).
The Misjunction isn't as you wrote it, but it's a better card this way and makes more sense.
Hope is correct because it's referring to the blocked creature, which is the same as the attacking one, but you can't refer to just any old attacking creature. It has to be the one enchanted creature blocked.
____________
Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 24, 2009 09:48 AM |
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Quote:
Sounds good but Misjunction does not remove the artifact, enchantment, or trap. Just causes it not to work... on that turn. Otherwise the rest sound MUCH better. Oh and hope would be +X/+Y of attacking creature. (Ie the blocking creature adds the attacking creatures attack and defense to its own).
This is MtG, not YGO. There are no traps.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 24, 2009 10:32 AM |
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Doh, been way too long and I got the two confused a little. Thanks
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Message received.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 24, 2009 12:16 PM |
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Regarding Reaction:
If we template it as follows:
Reaction to X - Y.
Where X is a characteristic like color, creature type, converted mana cost or anything at all, and Y is any line of rules text, we can have the following:
Agent of Chaos 1R
Creature - Elemental Spammer
Haste
Reaction to Blue and/or White - Agent of Chaos gets +3/+0 and gains trample until end of turn.
2/1
As well as Something like this:
Allergic Guy 1W
Creature - Human Moderator
Reaction to Spammers - 1W: Remove target creature blocking or blocked by Allergic Guy from the game. Return that card to play under its owner's control at end of turn.
2/2
EDIT: Additional comment about RTI's/Rarensu's template:
"Reaction to Blue and/or White - +3/+0 and Trample" brings us way back to the times when Frozen Shade's rules text said "B: +1/+1" and thus would feel like a step backwards, and it doesn't read too well in my opinion. I like the general idea for the ability, though.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 24, 2009 12:22 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:23, 24 May 2009.
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Ok some confusion about Reaction Ability (sorry). Does that mean if it is the target of a spell that shares that color that it reacts to it as well as blocking or being blocked by something with that color? If so..a +3/+0 could be dangerous.
For instance. A 1/1 creature with first strike (or whatever it is called) and trample that has Reaction to green +3/+0. Cast Giant Growth (for a total of +6/+3) and lure (for another +3/0) and regenerate (yet another +3/0) and you have a 10/4 trample with first strike that regenerates and forces all creatures that can to block it. Nasty.
____________
Message received.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 24, 2009 12:24 PM |
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Yeah, that's pretty much why Rarensu wants it to only trigger off blocking and being blocked, like Bushido. With which I agree.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 24, 2009 12:40 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:42, 24 May 2009.
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Volcanic Wastelands - Land - < add R or B to your mana pool. < Tap target creature, target creature does not untap until Volcanic Wasteland does. When used to tap a creature Volcanic Wasteland does not untap as usual.
Otherside of the Monitor - Sorcery - 2UW - Opponit reveals hand and top 5 cards of library to you.
Glade - Land - < add W or G to your mana pool. < Remove Glade from game to bring target card from your hand into play without paying it's summon cost. If Glade is in your graveyard you may sacrifice a land to bring it into play.
Altar - Artifact Creature - 5. 3 Sacrifice a target creature you control to the Altar . Add +1/+1 counter to Altar for each mana the target creature costs until end of turn. < Altar to remove any number of counters to deal 1 point of colorless damage to any player or creature. 3/3
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Message received.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted May 24, 2009 04:16 PM |
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Quote:
Yeah, that's pretty much why Rarensu wants it to only trigger off blocking and being blocked, like Bushido. With which I agree
Which would ony allow creatures, and creatures that enter combat, which would seriously limit the usefulness of the ability. Of course, if you make some more mechanics that would help those creatures built around abilities and not combat, then that would offset this. If not, than my verdict: Reaction = Terrible.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 24, 2009 08:23 PM |
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Quote:
Which would ony allow creatures, and creatures that enter combat, which would seriously limit the usefulness of the ability. Of course, if you make some more mechanics that would help those creatures built around abilities and not combat, then that would offset this. If not, than my verdict: Reaction = Terrible.
So the ability goes only on one card type. As does flying, trample, first strike, persist, bushido, flanking, provoke, unearth and a big lot of others. Creatures are still the most numerous card type, so that's not much of a limit design-wise.
So the ability is only relevant in combat. Like first strike, provoke, bushido, flanking and many more. So? People like combat-specific abilities. Plus, limiting the abilities to blocking/blocked creatures creates interesting tension and messes with combat math.
The mechanic will be as good as we make it. As long as the reagents are broad enough and the effects diverse and significant, this can be something good. For example, Reaction to Brushwaggs just won't cut it.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 25, 2009 01:22 AM |
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is reaction the only name choice?
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted May 25, 2009 02:10 AM |
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Do as yea may. I care not anymore.
Reaction as Set Mechanic: 
Moving on.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted May 25, 2009 05:55 AM |
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Quote:
is reaction the only name choice?
I hate the name myself, it doesn't have much flavor. We need a new name.
____________
Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 25, 2009 07:40 AM |
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Try to think in Forum terms. For instance, the most common 'reaction' in forums is the reply or a quote.
Now that I think of it, should the HCM system get a special role in the mechanics?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 25, 2009 07:56 AM |
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Well, how about this for 'Reaction'. Reaction : X gets y (whatever reaction you want) as a one time bonus per turn.
Or something similar. That way it can 'react' to a spell, instant, or whatever...
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Message received.
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