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blizzardboy
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posted March 10, 2019 01:01 PM |
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Art and film is to some extent political. It has always been political. It was political in ancient Egypt and Greece. It was political in Rome. It was political during Shakespeare. It is political today. It will be political next century.
The people barking for movies to never be political want something that is futile. Movies would be political even if they went out of their way not to be political. You have a movie like Infinity War that tries hard to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible, since they are selling tickets to as many people as possible, but even it isn't without a little bit of controversy. And frankly, movies risk being boring when they try too hard to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is why the big selling movies are a lot like a theme park ride and shallow on content.
A person doesn't have to watch a movie if they don't want to. I think her words might have been poorly chosen but honestly I wasn't upset when I heard them because I know she's frustrated with the trolls and frustrated people have a tendency to speak strongly.
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blob2
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posted March 10, 2019 01:19 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 13:26, 10 Mar 2019.
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blizzardboy
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posted March 10, 2019 01:21 PM |
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I watched Captain Marvel and I don't think it is a very political movie.
SPOILERS: It talks some about the discrimination she dealt with as a female pilot in the airforce. Men saying and doing sexist things to women is REAL LIFE and it happens.
In some ways, Eastern Europe is more advanced than the West because it has a longer precedent of women serving in the military or in the government, but you would have to be an idiot to pretend that women haven't had to wrestle with stereotypes no matter where they are from.
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Elvin
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posted March 10, 2019 01:30 PM |
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Yes but sometimes it is too blatant to overlook. And in this case it's not even the movie that is political but the actress who uses the role to get political. I read that she wasn't initially interested in the role but accepted because she wanted to be a positive role model. That's cool. But she doesn't just promote positivity and diversity, she attacks the opposition and drags down a good portion of unrelated others along with them. That won't prevent me from watching the movie but it will sour the experience of others and quite pointlessly so.
As for mass appeal, screw that. I'd rather have a film that insults everyone equally.
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blob2
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posted March 10, 2019 01:36 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 13:39, 10 Mar 2019.
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Elvin said:
As for mass appeal, screw that. I'd rather have a film that insults everyone equally.
Yes, why can't we have any of those anymore? Good old comedies like Scary Movie which made fun of everyone: stupid white b*tches, dumb white dudes, dumb blacks and asians.
I was so looking forward to Captain Marvel, thinking the movie looks cool and seeing Larson as a well-casted actress. But like Elvin said now I'll probably be watching the movie looking for any signs of feminism as to get offended. Cus I like to be offended, that's such a cool feeling! Thanks guys!
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Elvin
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posted March 10, 2019 04:14 PM |
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I finally watched the black swan. I'm not sure what I was expecting or how I feel about it. It is a beautiful movie in many ways but one that makes you uncomfortable.. without a good enough payoff? Descent to darker emotions, sacrifices for success, the importance of letting go are all interesting points to explore but I wasn't particularly touched nor did I care about Portman's character all that much. There are some magnificent artistic scenes but I didn't find the storyline as interesting as it could be.
I had heard of the comparisons with the anime film perfect blue and I expected more mystery and ambiguity about what is really happening. I'm pretty sure I would have liked the film better if that was the case but as it stands, the black swan feels like a watered-down and less interesting version of the former. I had a similar feeling about shutter island, having watched it after inception. Somewhat similar but less noteworthy.
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Warmonger
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posted March 10, 2019 06:46 PM |
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So, Captain Marvel earned 450 million dollars in just 3 days, which instantly makes it highest-grossing movie of the year.
At the end it doesn't matter what's it all about, if a movie belongs in MCU, it will be successful.
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Drakon-Deus 
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posted March 10, 2019 07:23 PM |
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Elvin said:
I finally watched the black swan. I'm not sure what I was expecting or how I feel about it. It is a beautiful movie in many ways but one that makes you uncomfortable.. without a good enough payoff? Descent to darker emotions, sacrifices for success, the importance of letting go are all interesting points to explore but I wasn't particularly touched nor did I care about Portman's character all that much. There are some magnificent artistic scenes but I didn't find the storyline as interesting as it could be.
I had similar feelings about this movie. I can't say I really disliked it, it certainly had interesting themes and some memorable scenes, but most of it felt somewhat pretentious and overall underwhelming to me. Some consider Black Swan a masterpiece and told me that I "don't get it" or that I'm just not old enough to appreciate it. So, yeah, not everyone has the same tastes.
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Elvin
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posted March 10, 2019 07:36 PM |
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But there isn't much to get, the film is more about experiencing the downward spiral of emotions.
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blizzardboy
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posted March 11, 2019 06:55 AM |
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Warmonger said:
So, Captain Marvel earned 450 million dollars in just 3 days, which instantly makes it highest-grossing movie of the year.
At the end it doesn't matter what's it all about, if a movie belongs in MCU, it will be successful.
And because large numbers of sexist trolls generating controversy on the internet probably created more people curious to see it than people choosing to boycott it.
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Elvin
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posted March 11, 2019 09:01 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 09:02, 11 Mar 2019.
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I heard about the troll infestation, a very sad affair. I heard that they refined the YouTube algorithm to combat them, amidst other ways and I'm glad for that.
That said, I believe that captain marvel was rather safe to begin with. It's the last film before the endgame and she captain is a big player in what is to come. I also saw somewhere that ticket sale projections fell by 100..millions  I haven't done my homework on why that might be but for an average film, the sales have not been too shabby.
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blob2
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posted March 11, 2019 11:06 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 11:16, 11 Mar 2019.
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blizzardboy said:
And because large numbers of sexist trolls generating controversy on the internet probably created more people curious to see it than people choosing to boycott it.
Nah, like Elvin I think the movie was simply a safe bet. It's MCU, and fans want to see it (especially because it supposedly sets the stage before Endgame, and people don't want to be left out), and I think fans are able to put a fine line between the movie itself and the controversy around it. It's worth noting that the most important metrics here is the second weekend "drop". It usually tells how the movie actually fares. The opening weekend usually means big income, but it's the following weeks that shape the movies overall reception. Just sayin.
It's like with Activision-Blizzard: people hate their current policy, but that doesn't mean they will suddenly fall.
I never doubted the movie would do good nor I was wishing it to bomb. I'm only sad that a dumb popcorn flick movie turns into some kind of political bs, when it's obvious that Larson's agents simply told her to induce some controversy to create buzz around her (Gal Gadots stocks spiked after she became the symbol of feminism alias Wonder Woman, from a no-name into a popular actress).
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blizzardboy
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posted March 11, 2019 11:52 AM |
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A community of white males with poor social skills are the perps, not Brian Larson.
Honestly, I'm not just arbitrarily making this up just for the sake of being argumentative. Immediately after the 1st trailer was released MONTHS ago, there was a surge of internet half-men whining about SJW politics and Mary Sues and manhating. YouTube and social media give groups of people the ability to organize and cluster together.
This attracted attention from journalists and the actors and a bunch of other people, which shouldn't really be surprising. A surge of miserable sexist males with poor social skills bombed the movie before it was ever released.
Do you know what it's called when you pre-judge something based on non-existent or nearly non-existent evidence? It's called prejudice.
The movie won't have very good retention in the 2nd week because it's not an amazing movie but it has already made money and Captain Marvel is part of the MCU canon on the big screen now.
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blob2
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posted March 11, 2019 12:06 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:44, 11 Mar 2019.
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@blizzardboy
I don't understand why are you so one-sided in this affair? I understand that there are stupid trolls who simply want to express their stupidity (I fail to even see how social media can be treated as an indicator for a person to decide if he wants to see a movie or not?). But do you seriously not see how far this affair shows that there is something wrong with how equality and political subjects in movies is handled currently? Are you this much biased?
We are talking about groundless statements and accusations against a specific group of people, whereas because it is dubbed as "justice" and "doing something right", everyone (journalists at least) seem to be applauding to this.
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blizzardboy
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posted March 11, 2019 02:52 PM |
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The movie became political because angry fans made it political.
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Elvin
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posted March 11, 2019 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:24, 11 Mar 2019.
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I'm pretty sure I read that Brie took the role to promote female empowerment and be a rolemodel rather than being genuinely interested in the role. Unless I'm mistaken, it's just as likely to be the other way around. Either way.. whatever.
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blob2
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posted March 11, 2019 04:03 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 16:53, 11 Mar 2019.
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@blizzardboy
This is the exact same thing you're mentioning: prejudice. No articles were cited, no reviews were quoted. We are talking about "impressions" here. There is a "specific ethnical group" and it's doing "something" is the rhetoric. Just how a white male can criticize other white males on their bias against females like you're doing, a black man can criticize Larson for attacking white males (maybe he has white friends and feels she is not doing them justice?). Or maybe a black or asian man/woman "trolls" negative reviews cus he/she knows his/her identity won't be dragged out/background checked?
Most of those accusation are based on biases. Speaking of which I wonder how white males, and we are not talking about trolls but actual critics that Larson refers to (movie reviewers in this case), would be even able to write negative reviews if there is currently such an aggressive rhetoric against them going on? We read everyday about white people excluded completely for their views, because of the words they say https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47478537 without means to fight back. I myself would be afraid to give a negative review if I were officially a movie critic, as to not be accused of sexism...
Comments under a trailer are a different matter, no sane person should treat them as a general indicator of how a movie is received. I see reviews of good games where a person writes "doesn't work on my PC, 1/10". Quality comment, no doubt. But turning things around and, like in case of Larson, who says "A Wrinkle in Time" didn't fare well cus supposedly "people who weren't meant to watch it reviewed it negatively" instead of admitting a movie was simply bad is something I call "false advertisement".
Either way, that's my two cents on the matter. Things are not black and white. I suppose I will come back when I actually watch the movie itself, didn't have a chance this weekend.
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Elvin
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posted March 11, 2019 05:19 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 17:21, 11 Mar 2019.
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I have not seen that movie but it goes both ways. Was it panned because of racism or is it racist to pan a movie that happens to have a predominantly non-white cast? The reason I even bring this up is because I have seen in the same discussion mentions of the panned ghostbusters reboot. The trailer left no doubts it was gonna be terrible so I would not accuse poor reviews of sexism or racism. So why would it even be brought up in this context?
But I'd be curious to hear from someone who watched a wrinkle in time. I don't plan to watch it just to see if the critics were a bunch of biased grumpy old men.
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Salamandre
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posted March 11, 2019 09:48 PM |
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The fact that youtube modified its algorithm to delete sexists comments is relevant of how core values are losing ground, as free speech. First, I would like to see an algorithm being able to identify a sexist comment as well as the definition of sexist translated in bits. If I say Brian Larsen is dumb, it is not sexist. If I say the movie is promoting crap feminism, it is not sexist as we have the actress herself promoting some of the most outrageous and racists radical feminist stereotypes. The only sexist comments would be something along "allowing women to play men roles is pathetic" or "send her to the kitchen, her natural place". it takes some human skills and sensitivity + critical thinking to separate real sexist comments from the usual bickering around actors and movies, as it always happened.
So my bet is that such algorithm simply deletes and harsh critic of either the actress and the movie. Sorry guys, the insult is part of the free speech. Certainly not the part one must be the proudest about, nonetheless this is why free speech exists in first place, to be able to say things that others may be offended by.
If not, we are back to Stalin times.
btw, I just saw Aquaman. It was absolutely gorgeous visually while being absolutely void in terms of ideas, emotion and acting. I enjoyed it a lot but like I enjoy some video game introduction scenery. We reached a post-art period where making a successful movie can be done without actors or serious theme at all. Scaring.
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Elvin
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posted March 11, 2019 10:20 PM |
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Youtube doesn't give a crap about its users, that's not new. Also what's that about free speech on the internets 
I decided to take a look at the youtube algorithm out of curiosity:
[YouTube began labeling all searches for Brie Larson as news items, which kicks in a different algorithm that sends videos from authoritative news sources to the top of search results, pushing the trolling videos from random users further down the list.
With the algorithm in place, a search for Brie Larson on YouTube now sends users first to videos posted by Wired, BuzzFeed Celeb, and Variety, where before it prioritized videos from angry Marvel fans with titles like "Brie Larson is ruining Marvel," "Burn it Down" and "What went wrong?". However, YouTube hasn't stifled all the negative content, as a search for Larson filtered for videos posted in the last week still pushes dubious clips like "Disney & Avengers Cast UPSET W/ Brie Larson & Captain Marvel! Recast Incoming?" toward the top of the list.]
Sounds like mostly sweeping Brie videos under the carpet.
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