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| Thread: OMG You Guys Won't Believe This: Mother Owes For Illegal Downloads |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
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posted June 22, 2009 03:18 PM |
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1. Your english is incomprehensible 
If you don't buy it, you deny profit, IE you take the product wthout paying, hence the word stealing.
Can't help my english.
The word stealing applies if I take it with me, not copy it.
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2. Irrelevant
That was to address angelito's example.
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3. Me voting or not voting doesn't change a thing.
Yes, give me more unrelating examples <facepalms>
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4. Listen, market analyses can crawl under a rock and die, you still exclude yourself from the market. You do not cooperate in the system, ding this. Great, anarchism is great, but you deny producers and invrestors their rightful money and that is not great, that is just stealing. If you want everything to be shared, then why not go for all-out communist regimes?
ohh boy <facepalm>
because of NOT BUYING IT, I ALSO exclude myself from the market.
THE SAME OUTCOME. PRECISELY THE SAME.
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You still exclude yourself as a potential buyer and that is wrong because prices will no longer fluctuate the way they're supposed to.
how many times do I have to repeat that I'm not a potential buyer... Jesus...
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Name something you download, then I can explain.
Let it be a new album of Sonata Arctica. Why do you need that? 
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DagothGares
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posted June 22, 2009 03:28 PM |
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The word stealing applies if I take it with me, not copy it.
This is about the oxford dictionary again 
My definition: acquiring a good without having produced or paid for it.
Your definition: disowning a certain good
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Yes, give me more unrelating examples
Alright, I'm going to take my sweet time and explain why that is relevant
You use that exact same argument as non-voters. you say: Well, it doesn't matter what I do, since everyone does it anyway. What you do is marginally different, but I want you to understand that if everyone reasons this way, then of course nothing is going to change, because everyone says: I can't change the world man!
One vote or one purchase isn't going to change anything, but if everyone reasons as such, then it becomes dangerous, because then no one will purchase any data, the cultural industry will die. Same with voting, if no one votes, because one vote doesn't change the flipping deal, then the country will run amok.
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because of NOT BUYING IT, I ALSO exclude myself from the market.
THE SAME OUTCOME. PRECISELY THE SAME.
Nope, not exactly and that'w hy i use the sonata artica example.
Say, you don't buy a sonata artica album because it damn hell costs you 15 euros! Now, if everyone comes to the same realisation and doesn't buy the thing or waits a little, then the market will anticipate this, prices will drop and you'll see one for five euro or even less. You would buy it, if you found it for an extremely low price, no? That's the reason. Prices will rise, because you copy instead of buy the thing. You are no longer a potential costumer and you are a potential costumer, because you would still like to listen to the newest songs by sonata artica, even if your buyer's limit is 99 cents. You steal the potential 99 cents along with all the other downloaders, murdering bastard!
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Doomforge
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posted June 22, 2009 03:39 PM |
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My definition: acquiring a good without having produced or paid for it.
I got a free PC. I'm a ******* thief.
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Alright, I'm going to take my sweet time and explain why that is relevant
You use that exact same argument as non-voters. you say: Well, it doesn't matter what I do, since everyone does it anyway. What you do is marginally different, but I want you to understand that if everyone reasons this way, then of course nothing is going to change, because everyone says: I can't change the world man!
1. I never used the highlighted logic
2. Voting directly affects your life, even though you think it doesn't. Copying doesn't affect your life, and it doesn't even affect someone's pocket if you don't plan on buying, despite what some people seem to think.
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One vote or one purchase isn't going to change anything, but if everyone reasons as such, then it becomes dangerous, because then no one will purchase any data, the cultural industry will die. Same with voting, if no one votes, because one vote doesn't change the flipping deal, then the country will run amok.
Completely unrelated.
A million of purchases will affect in more $$$ for the producers. Do you really think they would reduce the price after getting more? LMAO! Tell that to blizzard which gets the most (% wise) of legit gaming and their games are the most expensive on the market.
Do you really think musicians or game producers try to calculate their sells? We all know it's based on quality of their product. You can't judge whether the world will like it or not. Who the heck would estimate the number of buyers?
It's ridiculous. It doesn't relate to the problem because it wouldn't change the prices of ENTERTAINMENT.
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Nope, not exactly and that'w hy i use the sonata artica example.
Say, you don't buy a sonata artica album because it damn hell costs you 15 euros! Now, if everyone comes to the same realisation and you'll see one for five euro or even less. You would buy it, if you found it for an extremely low price, no? That's the reason. Prices will rise, because you copy instead of buy the thing. You are no longer a potential costumer and you are a potential costumer, because you would still like to listen to the newest songs by sonata artica, even if your buyer's limit is 99 cents. You steal the potential 99 cents along with all the other downloaders, murdering bastard!
Dear mate, the same situation happens if everyone is too poor to buy the overpriced CD.
Does this mean being poor is bad?
It leaves other people bankrupt because you can't afford to buy their stuff.
Following your logic, it does.
I am too poor to buy the 15euro CD. I would never buy it. There, I raised the number of people who didn't, lowered the profit, I caused everything you described.
Wait, does it still matter whether I download it or not AFTERWARDS?
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DagothGares
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posted June 22, 2009 03:47 PM |
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Do you really think musicians or game producers try to calculate their sells?
I think big gaming companies do. And of course, that's why reviews are so important for them.
Also, a gift is something someone acquired for you and donated it for you. You didn't acquire that PC, someone else did, so to my definition receiving a gift isn't stealing
Also, I think we speak different languages, because it still matters if they change prices accordingly and you buy the lower-priced ones.
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Following your logic, it does.
No...
Following my logic the market should adapt and I think that's a concept you don't quite grasp. You think all prices are static, set up right from the start and never change. You are wrong.
You see, if you buy it when the prices are lowered you encourage prices to be lowered.
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It doesn't relate to the problem because it wouldn't change the prices of ENTERTAINMENT.
Entertainment is a business just like any other... Apart that it doesn't suffer as much under recession as others
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Doomforge
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posted June 22, 2009 03:55 PM |
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Following my logic the market should adapt and I think that's a concept you don't quite grasp. You think all prices are static, set up right from the start and never change. You are wrong.
Where did I say so 
Of course they change, only that they are too high anyway. To make me able to afford them, they would have to drop by 90% or so, something that will never happen ;D
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You see, if you buy it when the prices are lowered you encourage prices to be lowered.
So I have to buy overpriced stuff made a tiny bit cheaper to "make them cheap" ?
Wait, I can't afford to anyway.
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Entertainment is a business just like any other... Apart that it doesn't suffer as much under recession as others
Actually I think it's way harder to estimate sells (not for big stars ofc but for niche bands), you never know whether you will be liked or not.
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DagothGares
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posted June 22, 2009 03:58 PM |
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Well, I mean buy the mothers when they are affordable
If that doesn't happen, then fine, fine whatever, buy them as protest against the product, I don't know!
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del_diablo
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posted June 22, 2009 04:10 PM |
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Do you think it is illegal to watch a James Bond movie on tv?
Do you think it is illegal to record a James Bond movie from tv?
Do you think it is illegal to watch a James Bond movie from a original dvd?
Do you think it is illegal to make a copy of a sold dvd with a James Bond movie on it and watch it?
Finally your getting somewhere that does not involve stealing and ripping of other peoples work.
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And some illegal copy actions have already other names (plagiatism), while new ones (file sharing) ar just too new to have found their niche where everybody is able to locate it and define it.
Wikipedia:
*Plagiarism is copying another person's ideas, words or writing and pretending that they are one's own work. It is against the law around the world.
*File sharing is the practice of making files available for other users to download over the Internet and smaller networks. Usually file sharing follows the peer-to-peer (P2P) model, where the files are stored on personal computers of the users. In this model, most people who are sharing files are also downloading files that other users share.
There is a huge difference.
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mvassilev
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posted June 22, 2009 04:19 PM |
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Holy quote wars, Batman!
del_diablo:
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* CD = Key
* DATA = What it unlocks
Except the key unlocks something that's not on it, whereas the data is on the CD.
Doomforge:
You would be correct if everyone who downloads wouldn't have bought in the first place. But that's not so.
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Doomforge
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posted June 22, 2009 04:48 PM |
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Doomforge:
You would be correct if everyone who downloads wouldn't have bought in the first place. But that's not so.
As I said earlier: I speak on behalf of myself and those who think like me.
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del_diablo
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posted June 22, 2009 04:58 PM |
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Quote:
* CD = Key
* DATA = What it unlocks
Except the key unlocks something that's not on it, whereas the data is on the CD.
Still valid, without the key you cannot get into your house, without the CD you got no way of getting that software into the computers userland.
Well the CD is a medium limited to about 700mb of storage, with a certain read and write speed. Replace CD with "Data medium", if you like that more.
And what is on the CD does not have to on your computer so you can run it, for the note.
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stankelbenet
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posted June 22, 2009 05:13 PM |
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woohoo, another 3 pages
Since everybody has tried making a relation, Doomforge would find related, I want to try too, but I will first note, that saying everything is unrelated, seems like loss of willingness to listen.
We assume I'm good at painting(which is not true) and bad at everything else. I've been working my hands to the bone the last few years to save up money. Then I quit my job and start painting. The money goes to rent and food for one year. When the year is over I use my last money to exhibit my art and to some advertising. Hopefully some people will buy my paintings so I can continue making more. The visitors bring cameras and photograph the whole lot. After that they put them on the internet, so everybody can look at my paintings for free. Where do I find encouragement to continue painting? Where do I find the money?
This probably isn't related either but I wanted to try.
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del_diablo
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posted June 22, 2009 05:30 PM |
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We assume I'm good at painting(which is not true) and bad at everything else. I've been working my hands to the bone the last few years to save up money. Then I quit my job and start painting. The money goes to rent and food for one year. When the year is over I use my last money to exhibit my art and to some advertising. Hopefully some people will buy my paintings so I can continue making more. The visitors bring cameras and photograph the whole lot. After that they put them on the internet, so everybody can look at my paintings for free. Where do I find encouragement to continue painting? Where do I find the money?
Well, i would say its about the pictures. They got uploaded to the net, and if it hits it will spread like fire in dry grass.
Thats some gigantic advertising you do not have to pay for, and that could be your solution. Get a deviantart account while your on it, if you get the chance.
The tricky part is to find a way so that people who could be interested in your art will find you, but going by the standard spreading its a simple piece of cake
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TheDeath
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posted June 22, 2009 05:42 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:51, 22 Jun 2009.
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@Mytical:Quote:
Ok last try, then you all can justify it to yourself all you like. Let us take the recipe of KFC's chicken. Not the actual chicken, but the recipe. Say somebody finds it and starts using it, selling the result. Hey, it's only 'intellectual' property right? So its ok?
Sorry, no it is not ok. I don't care if you share files (of any kind) I really don't. Its the justification. "Oh I should be special and not have to obey these laws because I am (insert reason)". But, by all means, justify it to yourself however makes you sleep better at night.
Sorry but even with current laws it IS ok, because it is a trade secret and not a patent, so if someone figures it out, it CAN use it. NTFS is a Microsoft trade secret, not a patent. There ARE third-party tools that "reverse-engineered" it and use it, albeit not as efficient (e.g: NTFS4DOS, NTFS for Linux, etc).
Nevermind that I also hate patents but just saying it.
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My definition: acquiring a good without having produced or paid for it.
We're all thieves. We all breathe.
By the way, they accused the woman who SHARED and probably acquired the goods by buying them. They did not accuse those who downloaded them.
Weak point.
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Say, you don't buy a sonata artica album because it damn hell costs you 15 euros! Now, if everyone comes to the same realisation and doesn't buy the thing or waits a little, then the market will anticipate this, prices will drop and you'll see one for five euro or even less. You would buy it, if you found it for an extremely low price, no? That's the reason. Prices will rise, because you copy instead of buy the thing. You are no longer a potential costumer and you are a potential costumer, because you would still like to listen to the newest songs by sonata artica, even if your buyer's limit is 99 cents. You steal the potential 99 cents along with all the other downloaders, murdering bastard!
Oh so that's why GM went nearly bankrupt. People were downloading cars! [/sarcasm]
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*Plagiarism is copying another person's ideas, words or writing and pretending that they are one's own work. It is against the law around the world.
Absolutely. 
For the others: make the damn differences before you speak your mind
@mvass: "intellectual property theft" is a 'fill in the gaps' concept added because the entire base around corporate trade is wrong, it leads to a stiff economy and worst, it is also against human nature. This is not even free trade anymore, since free trade would imply you access to share freely.
If I lived in the 50s I was going to PREDICT that this would happen, because the inherent flaws in corporate capitalism are extremely obvious. I am also predicting NOW that, with the advent of more nanotechnology and programmable nanobots, we will eventually have to make a choise between leaving nanotechnology or capitalism. I choose the latter. What would you choose to get rid of? (read: there HAVE been numerous research done on processor made on plastic, "printed" with low-cost printers -- so we will be able to build processors with plastic and a low-cost printer, and probably other hardware as well -- while that will not be as fast as even a Pentium, it does show that it is inevitable -- the more advanced we are, the more capitalism holds us back -- if we can't use our computer marvel by copying stuff, which is what revolutionized the software world, then we're being held back by something we should have ditched a long time ago).
This has 9 pages WOW I can't keep up with this thread to be honest.
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mvassilev
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posted June 22, 2009 05:48 PM |
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Doomforge:
How big of a section of the market do people like you make up?
del_diablo:
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Still valid, without the key you cannot get into your house, without the CD you got no way of getting that software into the computers userland.
The analogy falls apart, because the house is on the key.
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DagothGares
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posted June 22, 2009 05:51 PM |
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"We're all thieves. We all breathe."
Now, then I suppose air qualifies as 'goods', w/e
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TheDeath
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posted June 22, 2009 05:51 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:52, 22 Jun 2009.
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Now, then I suppose air qualifies as 'goods', w/e
Define 'goods' then. I see it as resource. And you can certainly make products with air.
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stankelbenet
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posted June 22, 2009 06:17 PM |
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If I lived in the 50s I was going to PREDICT that this would happen, because the inherent flaws in corporate capitalism are extremely obvious. I am also predicting NOW that, with the advent of more nanotechnology and programmable nanobots, we will eventually have to make a choise between leaving nanotechnology or capitalism. I choose the latter. What would you choose to get rid of? (read: there HAVE been numerous research done on processor made on plastic, "printed" with low-cost printers -- so we will be able to build processors with plastic and a low-cost printer, and probably other hardware as well -- while that will not be as fast as even a Pentium, it does show that it is inevitable -- the more advanced we are, the more capitalism holds us back -- if we can't use our computer marvel by copying stuff, which is what revolutionized the software world, then we're being held back by something we should have ditched a long time ago).
I would personally choose capitalism. The excistance of atoms can't be proved(we won't be able to see them EVAR!) and capitalism rocks. It uses the force of greed AKA competition to power the wheels of economy and spitting out goods and money to buy the goods with.
What is your substitute to capitalism? Communism? Anarchism? Quote:
This has 9 pages WOW I can't keep up with this thread to be honest.
Yes it's unbelieveableQuote:
Well, i would say its about the pictures. They got uploaded to the net, and if it hits it will spread like fire in dry grass.
Thats some gigantic advertising you do not have to pay for, and that could be your solution. Get a deviantart account while your on it, if you get the chance.
The tricky part is to find a way so that people who could be interested in your art will find you, but going by the standard spreading its a simple piece of cake
But still I wouldn't earn anything. If all my art is on the internet I can't sell it.Quote:
Define 'goods' then. I see it as resource. And you can certainly make products with air.
I'm still allowed to drink from a lake if I want to. There's no law against it. I really don't hope you're trying to make a point here.
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TheDeath
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posted June 22, 2009 06:23 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:24, 22 Jun 2009.
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I would personally choose capitalism. The excistance of atoms can't be proved(we won't be able to see them EVAR!) and capitalism rocks. It uses the force of greed AKA competition to power the wheels of economy and spitting out goods and money to buy the goods with.
LOL what do you mean we can't see atoms?
Of course, if you mean by "light", you are extremely ignorant of physics. Atoms are the building blocks that absorb and reflect light. It is because of atoms that you see the stuff you see. Also, visible light has a much larger wavelength than is possible to see atoms in resolution. You can see atoms with electron microscopes. (those use electron waves, not light, to detect them)
And sorry even if we can see or not atoms, if you can build anything out of air (i.e arrange air atoms into other atoms) then it doesn't really matter if you can see them, it matters that you can do "magic"
Capitalism sickens me with greed, not because it says that it's human nature to be greedy, but because when it doesn't fit with what it says, it tries to bend the rules. Kinda like the Joker in Batman. You know, he has all these theories about humanity, but when stuff doesn't turn out how he wants, he just blows it up cause he's pissed. That's why capitalism tries to "blow up" the sharers, because human nature didn't quite turn out how it wanted.
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I'm still allowed to drink from a lake if I want to. There's no law against it. I really don't hope you're trying to make a point here.
No I'm asking for PRECISE REASONING, not arguments like "law says it's ok, therefore it is ok". I'm asking WHY and I'm asking for PRECISE definitions. Saying "law says it's wrong" for me is lik saying "Bible says it's wrong, therefore it's wrong"
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del_diablo
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posted June 22, 2009 07:02 PM |
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The analogy falls apart, because the house is on the key.
Still, no house without a key. You can't get inside without it.
No software without a container for its data befor you can install it.
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del_diablo
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posted June 22, 2009 07:07 PM |
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But still I wouldn't earn anything. If all my art is on the internet I can't sell it.
The thing is, you can. The exibithio creates the "people THEN know"-thingy, so you may sell it. How its sold is another matter(online auction is an example), heck you could have your own online store for it included in your homepage.
With the internet, its tricky because its too big. But if somebody likes it, they will spread it. That spreading is publicity, and there are collectors or people wanting art. It the correct treads hit correct, you got buyers. Its basicaly the same as the collectors friend went to your exibhition and stuff, and then told the vivid collector about it.
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