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Corribus
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posted September 17, 2009 05:24 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 06:36, 19 Sep 2009.
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Gambling
I read this on ABCNews.com and it made me cringe.
Indiana Supreme Court to Hear Case of Compulsive Gambler Who Says She Was Lured Into a Casino
Link
Thoughts on gambling addiction or the article?
[EDIT: Could a mod please fix the typographical error in the thread title?]
[EDIT2: Link Fixed]
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 05:28 PM |
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Since we're on the topic of gambling, what I actually can't believe is how the "house advantage" works at all -- I mean I perfectly get the statistical advantage, but the random distribution isn't uniform: after all, humans flush cards, throw balls, etc... none of these are statistical uniform mathematically, are they? 
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ihor
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posted September 17, 2009 05:49 PM |
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In my country Gambling is totally illegal  , all casinos were closed half a year ago, but that's not normal imo.
I think there should be one place in the country like Las Vegas where it should be allowed. It solves many problems.
1)Ordinary people have no access to the casinos, so the less amount of those, who thinks he will smash casinos - less cruel fates.
2)People who have money and want to spend them for entertainment can do this in casino. They don't want to win, but to spend good time and have fun.
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Corribus
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posted September 17, 2009 05:58 PM |
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Let me summarize the article for those who don't really want to read it.
A wealthy woman goes to casinos and over time gambles all her money away. She loses her house, her job, everything. At one point, she goes to a casino and the casino gives her $125,000 in credit. She loses it all in a single evening. When she doesn't pay it back, the casino sues her for the debt. She countersues for $20,000,000, claiming the casino should have known she was addicted to gambling and should never have lent her the money.
An additional fact in the article that might be important is that in Indiana (where this happened), there's a program for gambling addicts where casinos will deny admission to any person who is on a certain list; listees also cannot keep any gambling winnings at all. Joining the list is voluntary - i.e., you must sign yourself up if you believe you are an addict. The woman in question never signed up for this list; when asked why, she said that she didn't know at the time how bad of an addict she was.
@Death
I'm not sure what you're asking.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 06:07 PM |
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Quote:
@Death
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Statistics only make sense if the random distribution is uniform. Tossing a coin for example should not have a bias toward one side. If a person bets on Head and wins 80% of the time, and then he says "I noticed the other person tends to throw the coin with a certain position that makes Head much more favorable" or simply he was lucky betting on Head (without knowing the other person has an unknown and unintentional bias, but it was there), then statistics are off, because the distribution (random) isn't uniform 50/50 no matter how theories say so.
So in casions I'm surprised that the statistics actually work
It is also extremely hard to make a REAL uniform random distribution in computer random number generators too, so computers don't help perfectly.
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Darkshadow
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posted September 17, 2009 06:09 PM |
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Should pay her debt, it's her fault for being an addict like that.
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Doomforge
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posted September 17, 2009 06:11 PM |
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Well. It's mostly US problem, I believe - in Poland it's not a big deal, people are way too poor to gamble, usually  I don't know about the rich ones, but I don't know a single person who has ever been to a casino here. I don't know anyone very rich, though...
I want to try it myself though. Poker, I mean. Everywhere people are saying poker is more of a tactical planning than just a gamble, because of every situation, you can make some sort of profit. A lame player will win once with luck and then lose 20 times ending up bankrupt, while a good player win win once with luck, will make slight profit or at least no loss on next 20 weaker games, then win again.
I don't know. I'll give it a try at online poker. Wish it would be that easy. Or that you could make money of playing chess without being godlike player.
Addiction? Idk. Never got addicted to anything, honestly...
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ihor
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posted September 17, 2009 06:20 PM |
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Edited by ihor at 18:21, 17 Sep 2009.
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@DarkShadow
Agree. If she realize that she take a credit then she must pay. There is no fraud in casino's actions or everyone could take a credit, lose or money and say: "I am an addict! Forgot about the credit."
@DoomForge
I also play poker, but imo online poker is 90% luck. Real poker is much more interesting. The card games are only in casinos where intelligence have some value.
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Doomforge
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posted September 17, 2009 06:28 PM |
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A guy I know showed me a check for 1000$, all won on online poker and NOT in one lucky session = seems there is more then meets the eye about this game.
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 06:30 PM |
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Quote:
A guy I know showed me a check for 1000$, all won on online poker and NOT in one lucky session = seems there is more then meets the eye about this game.
Yes he actually was lucky, or the computer random number generator was non-uniform like I said.
(which is often the case -- perfect uniform randomness is a big problem in cryptography even, not just games).
All casino games have a house edge.
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Doomforge
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posted September 17, 2009 06:33 PM |
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He told me it's mainly because of noobs which were putting large irresponsible bets with snowy cards.
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 06:35 PM |
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Quote:
He told me it's mainly because of noobs which were putting large irresponsible bets with snowy cards.
So he didn't play against the house? Then yeah you can crush noobs of course. Do you feel good taking others' money though?
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angelito
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posted September 17, 2009 06:41 PM |
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Have you ever played online poker TheDeath?
Guess not...
LUCK is a factor which is only important in the short run...in the long run, the better player will ALWAYS win.
And especially when it comes to higher stakes...not only 0,50$/1$ tables, where thousands of people bet like hell coz they don't care of they lose a pot of 4$. They don't care about pot odds, about possibilities in general.
About the article and the problem itself:
This seems to be a typical american problem I think. The reason why american products have manuals which most of the time contain of more pages than the constitution () is, there were a lot of lawsuits in the last 15-20 years because people did crazy things (trying to dry a wet cat in the microwave for example  ) and gained redress because it didn't say they weren't allowed to do so.
In germany, when you enter a casino, you have to sign a small piece of paper where you conferm you aren't an addict AND you don't have any money problems. So any kind of lawsuit won't have any success.
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JollyJoker
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posted September 17, 2009 06:53 PM |
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I completely agree with angelito. 
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 06:58 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:00, 17 Sep 2009.
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Quote:
Have you ever played online poker TheDeath?
Guess not...
LUCK is a factor which is only important in the short run...in the long run, the better player will ALWAYS win.
And especially when it comes to higher stakes...not only 0,50$/1$ tables, where thousands of people bet like hell coz they don't care of they lose a pot of 4$. They don't care about pot odds, about possibilities in general.
No I was talking about playing against the house, not against other players. We're talking about a casino right, not about a game that you can play at home with friends/people.
No I haven't played poker, but I did play blackjack (for fun). If you play perfectly in blackjack, the house still has a 0.5% edge over you.
EDIT: I mean online... there's even software to make your moves perfectly (statistically speaking) and you still lose 0.5% in the long term. (provided it's perfectly uniformly random, which again is not the case).
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Doomforge
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posted September 17, 2009 07:05 PM |
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Judging by what I read and after talking with the guy I mentioned, I think Angelito is right.
But I have to give it a try myself..
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 07:13 PM |
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Quote:
Judging by what I read and after talking with the guy I mentioned, I think Angelito is right.
But I have to give it a try myself..
Be sure to play for fun first not with money. If you want you can use software to assist you (I know there's for Blackjack at least) where you input the current data and it spits out what you should do (statistically, the best choice). If they ask you why it takes so long tell them you're thinking about statistics and calculating your chances
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Doomforge
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posted September 17, 2009 07:23 PM |
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they give 50$ for registration on most poker services. I don't plan to use my money, if I lose all I started with, I'll just give up on poker.
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Elvin
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posted September 17, 2009 07:31 PM |
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I distinctly remember a quote from spiderman 1 Let him sue me and get rich like a normal American.
The suing mentality of some people is plain ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is betting everything that you own and risk your kids' future, this is as irresponsible as it gets.
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TheDeath
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posted September 17, 2009 07:33 PM |
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Quote:
they give 50$ for registration on most poker services. I don't plan to use my money, if I lose all I started with, I'll just give up on poker.
There are ways you can play without paying at all (but not winning either), if you want to practice. Let me know if you're interested in software so I can have a look and search (though not first-hand experience with the software as I didn't play poker, only blackjack, but without money).
This is what I first found for poker (not software but review).
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