|
| Thread: Gambling |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
posted September 17, 2009 07:59 PM |
|
|
Poker is not Black Jack. IMHO there couldn't exist decent software for poker because to play poker you should take into consideration actions of other players. Software can only calculate your chances. Poker have a big psychological part. I couldn't imagine how software can detect whether the opponent is bluffing. Human brain, strong psychic and some knowledges in mathematics are better than software.
All I say is about Texas Holdem, because I played only it.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day. 
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:03 PM |
|
|
How do you play POKER against the house? You mean a slot machine?
Online poker is all about playing vs other human players...be it play money or real money.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:11 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Poker is not Black Jack. IMHO there couldn't exist decent software for poker because to play poker you should take into consideration actions of other players. Software can only calculate your chances. Poker have a big psychological part. I couldn't imagine how software can detect whether the opponent is bluffing. Human brain, strong psychic and some knowledges in mathematics are better than software.
Online poker doesn't have emotions. And of course the cards are also shuffled everytime. (takes a few microseconds)
@angelito: well I don't know much about poker, but I found this. Seems only "Video Poker" has an advantage for you if you play perfectly. (mind you it is minuscule, 0.07%)
Note that Blackjack, you can also have an advantage if you count the cards -- but this is null if you play online because the cards get shuffled everytime.
If you seriously think you can beat the casino in any game, why do you think they give you 50$ startup bonus? They're a business, they aren't stupid.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:13 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Online poker doesn't have emotions
Your position is absolutely wrong. Believe me.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Online poker doesn't have emotions
Your position is absolutely wrong. Believe me.
What do you mean? Do you play with a webcam or what?
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:20 PM |
|
|
I know people who play online and trust me it's pretty emotional.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:23 PM |
|
Edited by ihor at 20:26, 17 Sep 2009.
|
No, ofcourse no. 
I meant emotions could be detected in another way rather than seeing into eyes.
Many factors help: size of bet, time of thinking, previous hands. Psychics could be detected even online. For example after 5 minutes of play you could exactly know: player A is a rock and plays only if have good cards or player B is maniac and like to bluff.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
No, ofcourse no.
I meant emotions could be detected in another way rather seeing into eyes.
Many factors help: size of bet, time of thinking, previous hands. Psychics could be detected even online. For example after 5 minutes of play you could exactly know: player A is a rock and plays only if have good cards or player B is maniac and like to bluff.
10 out of 12 use software (according to statistics) so most aren't rocks or maniacs, but mathematicians 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:28 PM |
|
Edited by ihor at 20:32, 17 Sep 2009.
|
Quote:
10 out of 12 use software
Who told you that? I don't use software.
Edit: I should confess I have not a lot of experience in money poker(lost 50$ some time ago). Maybe in money poker they use something.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:33 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Who told you that?
The internet of course.
PokerOffice is even advertised and you receive a free license if you sign up to one of its partners, which are online casinos. Now, why do you think people opt for that? 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:39 PM |
|
|
About the topic. I think whenever you offer something you've a co-responsibility.
Because what the casino in reality offers (and the same with any good) should be increased value of life in general. I believe many people go to casinos, knowing that they'll loose some money, but they'll get an experience they seek.
However some people looses it, and like there's often a maximum amount you can win (before the casino kicks you out), a maximum amount you can bet (so the casino can actually pay if you win), there should be a maximum amount that you can loose before the casino decides that the acitons the given persons takes today will in general for most people not result in an increased value of life, or something like that.
Which in short is to say, if people shows sign of addiction (set any given limit of maximum loss equal addiction, unless otherwise claimed by the person in the first place, or something similar) then the casino should show responsibility and stop them from playing.
About the case in question, I think it sounds obvious she's addicted, so the credit she got is pretty much lost for the casino in my opinion. However I don't think the casino should be paying anything back as it's today. I mean certainly it was a game she could only loose (no matter if you win pretty much every time, if you keep playing, you'll end up at zero in double or nothing games, etc.), however imagine if she'd been refused to play on and she'd taken them in court for that in stead of.
Nah before the laws are clear, I think she can only get the credit due out of the way, hopefully her life hasn't been completely ruined though, but as it is now if everyone who'd ever lost would claim addiction, the casino would be in big trouble because the winners would still keep their winnings.
However the subject do show that the rules should be made very clear on this subject and that casinos should show some co-responsibility, otherwise they'll end up ruin many peoples life, which no one is served with (casino will loose a customer that might had come back for more with more money, the person looses a lot of possibilities in life, and the community in general goes from a feeder to one who needs to be feed).
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:43 PM |
|
Edited by ihor at 20:44, 17 Sep 2009.
|
I have just googled for poker softwares:
http://www.pokersoftware.com/
I don't think these softwares could be decisive factor in poker play.
Helps? - yes ofcourse, but what kind of help?
1)Poker Push Bot Released - don't know about what mathematics is talking. I think simple poker calculations should be made in your head - calculation odds etc...
2)Holdem Manager Releases Leak Buster - it's redicilous - shows you history of hands.
3)Manage Multi-Monitor Setups with TransOther and MultiMonMan - have very mediocre relation to poker.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:50 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the offer Death, I appreciate it.
Thing is, as Angelito said: it's all about playing vs. people. And you can only get better vs. people if you play vs. people.
So right now I'm reading strategy guides from pokerstrategy.com - guess that will have to suffice.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 08:50 PM |
|
|
http://www.holdemindicator.com/
http://www.pokeroffice.com/ (look at the special offer)
And I already gave a link to reviews here.
Doing calculations in your head are always inferior because they're simple approximations -- the illusion being that, if you win, you think they're equally good, or if the computer's decision loses, you think it's poor. It is similar to Gambler's Fallacy, where you think you can win against the house because you won the first few times.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 09:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Thanks for the offer Death, I appreciate it.
I join.
Quote:
Thing is, as Angelito said: it's all about playing vs. people. And you can only get better vs. people if you play vs. people.
So right now I'm reading strategy guides from pokerstrategy.com - guess that will have to suffice.
Playing experience is one of the best factors.
P.S. Gone to watch League of Europe match: Shakhtar - Brugge.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 10:53 PM |
|
|
*Sigh*
It's always great to see people discuss about things they have absolutely no idea about.
The thing with EVERY game that allows this is to work out a winning strategy. This is NOT the same thing than going with probability.
Example: if you play a game against the house, let's say BlackJack, you CANNOT play with the odds because the GENERAL odds are AGAINST you.
If you are playing against other PLAYERS things are different because it solely depends on the quality of the players you are against. For example, if you play against BAD players you will win if you play WITH the odds. If you play against good players, though, you won't. Which is what makes things interestin: If you play against very good opponents it's not playing WITH the odds that will decide, it's playing AGAINST the odds (yet again) that will decide.the outcome one way or another.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 17, 2009 11:16 PM |
|
|
Exactly! That's what I meant, and I assumed we were talking about casinos (aka against the house).
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 18, 2009 07:09 AM |
|
|
When you play a game against the house, like Blackjack, house behaviour is always the same. That means, there is an optimal strategy to go in drawing/not drawing, splitting, doubling, insurance/no insurance, and so on, but this optimal strategy alone will just minimize your losses.
To win, you have to modify that strategy, for example, by changing the amount of your bets, depending on what's going on.
That means, however, you are STILL operating under the odds - you just have to try to add a certain something that you hope will work in favor for you.
That's different, when playing with others, because everyone is free with their play. If there are exclusively good players at the table, the idea is to pick the good moments to present the others with a problem. This has to do with the fact that the others ARE good and CAN think about things - it's basically trying to SUGGEST different situational odds then there are. Simply spoken, you try to play in a way that avoids predictability.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted September 18, 2009 07:53 AM |
|
Edited by angelito at 07:58, 18 Sep 2009.
|
Quote:
Exactly! That's what I meant, and I assumed we were talking about casinos (aka against the house).
Poker is mostly played in Casinos, wherelse??
Blackjack has close to nothing to do with skill...you either take a card or not. The "house" has to take cards till they reach a specific amount of points. No skill also. And of course you place your bet BEFORE the game starts! (You may double or split, but that won't make a difference refering to the gameplay of the "house" player)
But poker (especially texas Hold'em and Omaha) is so much different. There are blinds (big and small) which have to be placed before the cards are dealt, so every round there is a pot to win .
Texas: You bet AFTER you have seen your first 2 cards...everyone got 2 cards which nobody else can see. Here the bluffing already starts. I have 2 7 off suit (worst pocket cards to start with), while another player has K 10 off suit (not too good either, but much better than mine). I raise (put a good amount of money in the pot), which mostly means I have quite a decent hand. K 10 is nothing special, so he will probably fault his hands. No program will help you here. It's just about "Does the other player hold the cards he is betting for?". Now you either have the guts to call those raises if you think he is bluffing and trying to steal the pot (which contains the small and big blind so far), or do you believe he really has a good hand?.
The problem is, if you call his raise (which means you put the same amount of money in the pot as he did with his raise), the game is not over! It was just the "pre season".
Coz now, 3 more cards are dealt, but not to every player, BUT on the table (those are called the "flop"). (After this round, a 4th card is dealed ("turn"), and after that, a 5th card is dealt ("river").
Now the betting continues.
The goal is, to find the best hand with 5 cards. You may chose from the 5 cards on the table, which can be seen by every player, and the 2 pocket cards which can only be seen by yourself.
Let's say we see 2 2 K on the flop. The guy with K 10 thinks he has probably the best hand now, coz the opponent raised before the flop was seen, and it's not very likely he will do that with a 2 in his hands.
So he will most likely bet...now imagine what the guy with 2 7 in his hands will do He could either just call the bet, to not frighten the other one away, because he wants even more money from him, because there are 2 more rounds (turn and river), or he could raise the bet of the K 10 guy. If he raises, what will the K 10 guy think now? Imagine yourself...("He started a bluff and now has to continue the bluff", "He has a pocket pair, like JJ or QQ, or even AA", ....)
We can continue this till the end, but this was just for you to see how much thinking is in a little poker game when playing Texas Hold'em rules.
And as I mentioned earlier, if you play these things with very small amount of money, you will always find dummies who call every bet and every raise, because they wanna see the river card, and of course they wanna see what you got in your hands. They may lose 1 or 2 dollars...who cares.
If you play higher stakes, where the blinds are 10 and 15 dollars for example, the players are mostly different. Much more players will fault after raises.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted September 18, 2009 08:17 AM |
|
|
I was talking about playing against other players.
Quote:
If you are playing against other PLAYERS things are different because it solely depends on the quality of the players you are against. For example, if you play against BAD players you will win if you play WITH the odds. If you play against good players, though, you won't. Which is what makes things interestin: If you play against very good opponents it's not playing WITH the odds that will decide, it's playing AGAINST the odds (yet again) that will decide.the outcome one way or another.
I'm not sure we are talking about the same odds. What does mean calculate odds. For example you have two of diamonds and on the turn there four cards from which 2 of diamonds, and 2 of clubs. You will probably get nuts if the diamond will came on river and you make flush. Your chances 13-4 = 9 diamonds from 45 remaining cards = 20% = 1/5. Now for example the total pot is 1000 and someone bets 150. Should you call? Yes, because 150/(1000+150) < 1/5. If someone bets 300, then 300/(1000+150) > 1/5 so you need simply fold. In such situation if you will do it very many times you will earn more that lose(Law of Large Numbers). I'm not sure what you mean to play against odds - you don't know the cards of your opponent.
____________
Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day.
|
| |
|
|
