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| Thread: [Mega-Project] The HOMM5 Role Playing Edition |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 27 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sibbarb
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 26, 2010 11:20 PM |
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Still, I think that the bloodrage, as their unique racial ability, should play a significant role in gameplay, even if it means lovering magic protection at the time earned at "luck" , "defence" , and "shatter dark" .
If you look at it closely enough, it seems all other rases managed to keep their identity at a much greater level then orcs, and that is due mainly to "selling" shatter skill to all races, greately downgrading the meaning and the value of blood rage in return for three (or so) magic protection perks (which in turn don't work with curses unlike magic resistances).
What I mean is, when orcs (I mean HV TOE orcs) first arrived at the battlestage, they were totaly different from all other factions, absolutely unseen, and charmingly unique. And though playing at their side against a proper human being was a damn challenge, it was worth it.
What I see in your otherwise very sofisticated and interesting mod is an eastern europian nation 10 years after the end of the cold war (not that I have anything against eastern europe).
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 27, 2010 04:32 PM |
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@Sibbar:
Bloodrage is just as powerful and significant in stronghold gameplay as it was before. So your statement on downgrading the meaning and value is simply incorrect. In H5 RPE all factions have 'sold' some of their uniqueness to other factions but also gained many new features back. The barbarian can now learn the new combat skill and learn all hero combat related perks (retaliation strike, unstoppable charge, mark of the damned etc). Shatter skills are stronger, goblin support gives now 2 goblins per day. Since you can decide to start with shouting, enlightenment or a shatter skill it is also much easier to get skills that were very difficult to get in TOE. I think you are overlooking all these great new benefits.
In H5 RPE variation is produced between classes NOT between factions. In H3 and H4 this was also the case. Sorcerers and Warlocks are very similar for example, while demon lords and warlocks are very different. This is the central philosophy of the mod.
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Omnax
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 28, 2010 12:09 AM |
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Edited by Omnax at 00:10, 28 Feb 2010.
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Hi and thank you very much for a great mod !! However, I would like to play over the lan with my friends, and we were trying to use random generated maps from RTMG version 1.5.5. Problem is, that the game crash everytime in multiplayer, when someone is trying to connect. Also, game crash when you try to generate the map ingame with your exe files. Which I think is related. Can you somehow fix this problem in map generating and multiplayer?
I know, that you can generate maps with normal exe, but that does not work for multiplayer. Even If i create perfect working maps in single player using RTMG, we simply cannot use them in multiplayer, due to crashing.
I have posted this isue also on their thread, because I am not sure if its problem of the mod or that map generator. Normal maps working fine.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2010 12:26 AM |
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Edited by SimonaK at 00:27, 28 Feb 2010.
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« RMGPresetTable.xdb » is a file modified by RPE mod.
modifications are minor but enough to cause a crash.
I think this file don't need to be changed to include heroes in random maps.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 28, 2010 12:45 PM |
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2010 05:02 PM |
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both.
you know, I've 308 heroes with their own "ref", their own advmapshared files..etc etc...
all original heroes are entirely thrown
but never I modified rmg preset table file so far..and never it crashed
I think it's really not necessary to change this file. this changes nothing, it brings nothing
by the way, I wonder why you touched it
same thing about ScenarioHero tag....in fact you can put false to it for all heroes.
the important is removing undesired heroes from AdvMapSharedGroup files (any.xdb + 8 factions files list)
your any.xdb should have 96 heroes and the 8 others files only have 12 heroes inside.
finally, using the original RMGPresetTable file allowing to know if that is the trouble.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 28, 2010 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
but never I modified rmg preset table file so far..and never it crashed.
That is no evidence the problem is caused by the presetstable, I have no problems either, but I'm not using a LAN with RTMG. The problem can be caused by an infinite amount of other issues.
Quote:
by the way, I wonder why you touched it
I think it determines which heroes can be randomly given to players when generating a random map. If not then tell me the function of those RMG heropool lines.
Quote:
the important is removing undesired heroes from AdvMapSharedGroup files (any.xdb + 8 factions files list)
I'm not removing singleplayer heroes from the game, because in the end I want to maintain compatibility with singleplayer scenarios and campaigns.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2010 05:48 PM |
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Quote:
That is no evidence the problem is caused by the presetstable, I have no problems either, but I'm not using a LAN with RTMG. The problem can be caused by an infinite amount of other issues.
I don't know if RPE without RTMG was been using in a LAN.
fiur said that he crashs in multiplayer but I don't think he uses RTMG.
Quote:
I think it determines which heroes can be randomly given to players when generating a random map. If not then tell me the function of those RMG heropool lines.
where does during the creating of a game from a RMG map, that the hero choice is locked on a particular hero?
we can lock the town for players by uncheked « random town » choice from RMG panel. right.
but I don't know how we can lock a hero.
the hero given at player is this one of the game creation panel, to the right of the town.
and this hero list is controlled by the AdvMapSharedGroup file not by RMGPresetTable.
so I think this function is just death.
Quote:
I'm not removing singleplayer heroes from the game, because in the end I want to maintain compatibility with singleplayer scenarios and campaigns.
ok. but these campain heroes use the RPE skill wheel. I imagine that gameplay is not perfectly ajusted.
as example I've HERO_CLASS_WISARD,
PRE mod took it and put it for inferno. but academy campain heroes are still with this class.
then I think RPE mod must have its own campain heroes (ajusted) or it simply doesn't
I don't say that is the trouble making crash but I see that as a vulnerability.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 28, 2010 06:18 PM |
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Quote:
I don't know if RPE without RTMG was been using in a LAN.
fiur said that he crashs in multiplayer but I don't think he uses RTMG.
It remains speculation, if you want to be sure you need to test it like a scientific experiment = 2 times exactly same situation with presettable as only difference. For that purpose I need to set up a LAN first.
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so I think this function is just death.
If that is true then the problem is unlikely caused by the presettable since the game doesn't even read it.
Quote:
PRE mod took it and put it for inferno. but academy campain heroes are still with this class.
Zehir, Cyrus and Maahir are all adjusted, the problems I still have with campaigns are not related to the hero.xdb files.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2010 06:26 PM |
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Quote:
For that purpose I need to set up a LAN first
me too.
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If that is true then the problem is unlikely caused by the presettable since the game doesn't even read it.
I think the game read it but the file is very limited for modding.
Quote:
Zehir, Cyrus and Maahir are all adjusted, the problems I still have with campaigns are not related to the hero.xdb files.
moreover, I don't think (know) that we are able to choose our hero in a scenario and a campain.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted February 28, 2010 06:30 PM |
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Quote:
moreover, I don't think (know) that we are able to choose our hero in a scenario and a campain.
Indeed, therefore I already checked all singleplayer maps to see which hero.xdb's were used (like Eruina_A1 for example). Then I adjusted all these heroes.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2010 06:38 PM |
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Edited by SimonaK at 18:39, 28 Feb 2010.
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Right. so probably (I guess) that in a RMG map, none of hero is specified for using. the tag must be empty.
or all of them are there. the effect being the same.
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Omnax
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 01, 2010 06:12 PM |
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Hi I have got few questions, I have played several games with your mod and is really nice. But what I would like to know is:
In readme and manual you are writing about compatibility with TE Edition Scripts and Alexoffs AI Scripts. Does it actually means, that I need those two scripts on their own, or is enough to have your H5-RPE-TE+AI-Scripts09 to get those features?
Also are you sure that changes in TE scripts does not conflict with changes you have made? I mean balance changes etc.
Also I should use only H5-RPE-TE+AI-Scripts09, not together with H5-RPE-TE-Scripts09 and H5-RPE-AI-Scripts09 right?
And last question, in manual you are writing about scripts overall, that scripts can only work if they are activated on the map I am currently playing. What is this good for? And is it important to do it on custom maps? Because, I could not find where I can put that "dummy_mapscript-xdb" line in the editor. Any advice? thank you.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 01, 2010 09:30 PM |
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The file H5-RPE-TE+AI-Scripts09.h5u contains the scripts and is the only file you need to install if you want to use the scripts. You don't need to adjust any of the official multiplayer maps to activate scripts because I already took care of that. Most singleplayer maps have scripts already activated. You only need to adjust custom multiplayer maps and random maps in case you want to use them with scripts (of course provided they don't have scripts activated already)
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Omnax
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 01, 2010 09:47 PM |
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Edited by Omnax at 21:52, 01 Mar 2010.
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Ok, and what does those scripts means? Does it means, I cannot use TE a AI scripts without editing maps? or for example do I have to edit map which I generate or download to be able use changes which you have made or not?
and what about that TE script, is it fine to use it with your changes? Do not they conflict somehow?
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PityLord
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 01, 2010 11:11 PM |
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Hello there magnomagus. New guy here so I hope you will go easy on my critique I will give here. Also be ready for a huge wall of text. Even though I registered just now I have played HoM&M for quite a while now starting from the 2nd instalment and now playing the 5th most of the time. As I was lurking Celestial Heaven's forum for some strats I noticed the thread and now I'm totally hooked again into playing thanks to you xD.
But enough of my life story here since I registered here for a more reasons then mindless blabber. First of all I want to congratulate you of making a good job of the mod. It makes the game fresh and quite a bit different, while adding a few more strategies and tactics to play around.
Anyway I have been playing for quite a while and I have a few questions/suggestions/opinions and would be very happy if you could look into some of these. I am not a tech savvy person so there will be no questions about the script, data and such stuff. Mostly ballance and flavour things.
After quite some testing time (and having so much fun wiht it) I noticed a few things that bothered me with some skillsets and racials. I know you didnt want to force racials into builds with 3 different classes each but many fractions are defined by the racials or need them to function, thus the starting hero pick is very important for that. Wich leads me to my first point.
1. Regarding Inferno
Inferno has the Demon Lord, Gatekeeper and Sorcerer classes to chose from. The whole faction is centered around hard hitting, low defense creatures and all 3 classes help them achieve that. The Demon Lord with his very high might stats, Gatekeepers with easy acess to Gating and Sorcerers being usually all out offensive spelcasters. However I found that only 2 of those 3 really work and that is the Gatekeeper's and the Sorcerers.
The reason is that Demon Lord's are prety much gimped in teh early stages of the game with 3 melee creeps and no easy acces to gating. The only Demon Lord that stands a chance is the War Machines one. Also I noticed that the Spellbreaker specialist, Marbas has only basic offense with no other skils and perks and I wonder did you just forget to add his second skill to him. I recon he shoudl have defense and magic resistance with it.
Anyway my point is that the Racial getting chance should be higher for some factions because they are very much defined by it. The biggest one is the Gating and in a lesser extent Rune Magics. I think a higher chance to get those on the classes that dont get it from the start would greatly increase the playability and ballance between the classes while not breaking the gameplay.
2. Starting skills variety
When I checked most of the heroes I notcied that many of them in the same class have mostly the same skills and perks to them and they differ only in specialties. The most varied heroes I found were from Haven and gave a nice choice of different combinations. The problem mostly lies in the Might heroes since I noticed the least variety in them. I dont say it is a top priority thing but would be nice if things got mixed up in a couple of patches.
3. Sylvan, Avenger and the War Machines
Sylvan was very werid for me bacause of that. I'm talking about the Imbue Balista skill of course. I realize that its a very powerfull ability but I dont think Rangers need to be so badly gimped by it. Since the only magic spell they can naturaly learn to Imbue is Divine Vengance wich is very imprectical and really likely. I know its powerfull but its gives no room for variety. Either you have DV or not and just imbue weak lv 1-2 spells. You could give at least the rangers Summoning Magic to play around with since they are the only real natural Imbue Balista heroes. Warden and Druid cant even learn War Machines naturally.
4. Weird Wizard stat gain?
This issue is what I had in one of my solo games. I played academy and picked Nadia as my main hero (btw, sorry to say that but Nadia's picture is ******* ugly >.< . I skilled Mentoring with her since I could not get Articifier at all so I figgured I would just mentor a Wizzard for making arties. After I had above lv 20 I did just that and maxed Articifier and Enlightment for the Wizzard for a nice big Knowledge stat gain. Imagine my surprise when at lv 17 or something like that, my secondary hero had about 25 defense and only 5 knowledge in basic stats. I tired out another Wizzard later and the result was simmiliar although even more deffense and 4 knowledge. Coudl you explain what was that all about? Because I thought Wizzards gain 45% stats in knowledge not defense.
5. Shaman shatters and some Stronghold specializations
As it stands for now if you ever want to pick a Shaman for the orcs 90% of the time you would pick the Daughter of Light for her Shatter Dark skill to couter the biggest faction counter. Other's are quite redundant unless you are 100% sure what the enemy is going for. Also having bonus +2 spellpower as a specialization is not very good. I think a good idea would be to give them the spellpower bonus each few levels so the speicialization would scale well at least. Some other properties to the daughters would be nice but I dunno about the coding in that. My last gripe is the Wyver Tamer and how hiw special is still quite useless compared to other ones. Maybe a straight number buff from 2 to 4 HP would make him a more desired pick or maybe he needs actually something else.
Anyway thats it for now and if you read it all thanks you very much for your patience. Next time I will post shorter walls xD. Anyway would be glad of you could answer me some of my questions and give me the reasoning about why some things are as they are.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 02, 2010 12:58 AM |
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@Omnax:
You don't need to do anything just install the mod like the other parts and it works, the directions in the manual are only useful in case the scripts don't work on a downloaded multiplayer maps.
Hi Pitylord,
Thanks for your in-depth comments on gameplay, such comments are very useful for improving the mod.
@1:
Demon Lords already had a early game problem in H5TOE forcing everyone to prefer deleb. I realize I made it even worse by changing the starting skills from gating to offense. The best solution I can think of right now is make all demon lords start with a ballista instead of first aid tent and also have a few of them have basic gating+basic offense.
@2:
I decided to restrict the starting skills as much as possible to the class-defining skills since TOE was often critized for having many heroes with poor starting skills. In TOH forums I found some people
suggesting to create a mod were every hero starts with an advanced racial. I took that since it perfectly fits my intention to make H5 a
real RPG were the player has as much as possible freedom to develop his character. Nonetheless for balance reasons I'm considering to
let some more might heroes start with basic class skill+basic TOE racial.
@3:
I don't see good solutions here and I don't see a balance problem either. I realize imbue ballista+implosion is huge fun, but a ranger with expert destructive doesn't make any sense to me (not even mentioning the fact the sylvan mage guild no longer offers detructive). If on the other hand I add the war machine skill to the druid class it would be amazingly overpowered. I think the combination of ice bolt+channeling/power feed and war machines has a much better balance between the power of the combo and the struggle to obtain it. I'm not a very big fan of almost impossible to get combos that break the game when they are finally achieved.
@4:
Seems a bug caused by a small typo, so can be corrected easily.
@5:
Unfortunately I cannot mod specializations and all the old ones
are included, so at least the old stuff is not missing. I'm considering creating a new unique shaman starting with necromancy since orcs don't suffer morale penalties from necro creatures and there is also the slave-market. I think this can add some new fun stronghold gameplay. I'm also hoping the release of HOMM Kingdoms will provide me with more H5 style portraits to create new heroes.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 02, 2010 01:21 AM |
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Oh I forgot to mention I will fix marbas too.
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PityLord
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 02, 2010 02:03 PM |
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Thanks for the reply magus. Glad to help out and give some feedback. I will play more and come back here form time to time with more of it.
Anyway regarding your replies.
@re1:
Looking forward to see the DL's changes and testing them out.
@re2:
I see where are you coming with this but since some specializations are better from the others it is crucial to make the basic skills differ so the choice of tha starting hero is not obvious. So yeah basic racial never hurts but on some heroes you can mix it up I think if he has a bad special (like the Zombie Lord).
@re3:
I didnt really want Druids or Wardens to have War Machines in the arsenal. Mostly because of the stats they would not use them well. Also I agree with no Destructive magic for the Ranger, moreso because the guild does not have it anymore. Still having a small chance to learn summoning would improve Imbue Balista while not breaking it IMO. You know gives actualy a reason to use it.
@re4:
I really hope so. That game was weird.
@re5:
Really? Not even number values on the specials can be altered? Because I saw some improved ones like the Disruptor or the Swarm Queen. Some specials need the same treatment like the Spellwringer (I hope I typed that correctly). It could use almost 100% to lock spells from tiers 1-3 and quite hight chance to do so with tier 4-5. As of now the special is useless. A necro Shaman sounds weird but not gonna bash it untill testing. Could give some economic boost and would be cool if the orc could use the Scream of Death perk. Anyway I think that the Shaman's need a little more look into to make them an actual viable choice compared the the Chieftans and Veterans. Gonna think of something later and post some ideas for them.
Again theanks for the replies and I'm off testing more.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 02, 2010 02:36 PM |
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@re2:
Well orson is the first candidate for basic counterstrike+basic necromancy
@re3:
I don't understand your point about summoning, you need cursing or damaging spells for effective imbuing and summoning has no spells like that above level 2. For low spellpower heroes ice bolt is mathematically the best option.
@re5:
A few specializations predetermined by the developers can be easily changed. Unfortunately many others are hard-coded and making new specializations is completely impossible. Since I boosted the shatter skills I don't think the shamans are really bad, they are just situational. Against warlocks for example shatter destructive is really good. In H5TOE it was extremely hard to pick the shatter you wanted (all 5% probability). I think it is good you can in certain situations be guaranteed you have the shatter you want.
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