|
| Thread: News and Bias |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:14 AM |
|
|
I read the thread and see many cool things I'd like to comment, though to keep it somewhat short, on topic and non-repititive, I'll wait with that.
On the matter of news information and overload of information, my only comment is that I see a lack of considering in the thread on the matter of priority. I think it's underestimating people, if one is not to take into consideration that people can prioritize for themselves and focus only on what they find interesting.
Following the subject of priority in connection to information overflow, I find another subject of the thread, indoctrination, very interesting.
I see it like this:
People get information -> People sort the information, only focusing on what interests them -> People use their own processes of logic and rationality to evaluate the information -> People form conclusions and uses these as future experiences when considering actions.
I'd guess that indoctrination happens after the second arrow. I think that it has somewhat been forgotten in this thread, that what seperates who're indoctrinated and who aren't, are not others opinions, but if you're willing to question your knowledge.
If your processes that determines your ability to make logic and be rational produces something you're 100% certain of that you've not independently derived, then it's a matter of indoctrination, no matter if it's intended or not. Though most of us do probably know that knowledge does not need to be eternally true to be considered knowledge, only true to the limit of out ability to determine truth at the moment of defining what is knowledge [old knowledge, given new information, may not be considered knowledge anymore].
In conclusion, unless people have some trouble making priority and process information, I see no problem with news media trying to put their own opinion on top as a fact, or that news medias are competing about viewers thereby creating more and more sensation news.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:22 AM |
|
|
Good job JJ, you are a good example of someone who talks about the US without knowing what they are talking about. While some of what you said might be true, some I can't address because I don't know, there is also some that's total bs and falls into the category of "where the heck do people get these crazy ideas?" and some is just plain opinion with no right or wrong.
To try to keep this at least a little on topic, I'm still curious about all the things that fall into that "where the heck do people get these crazy ideas?" category. I hear a LOT of this stuff. In some cases the answer may be American media, in which case I refer back to what I already said about people being gullible. In other cases there is no way it came from American media, it came from somewhere else.
@Ofor, the problem is that people DON'T think for themselves. That's not all people of course, but it's enough to heavily influence things. As I said, it's largely about appealing to emotions and imagery. Those two things circumvent rational thought and it's a highly effective means to stir up trouble in whatever group is targeted. Just because people are capable of thinking for themselves doesn't mean that they actually do it.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:25 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Azagal:
I don't think you understand my experiences in Russia. You have no idea what it's like to stand in line for food every day. You have no idea what it's like to wait for hours waiting to receive treatment at a hospital. So please refrain from saying that my opinion is invalid, because quite frankly you have no idea what you're talking about.
Taking Russia as an example for a "typical" european country is the same is using Montana as a typical country for the U.S.A.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:37 AM |
|
|
|
Moreover, Russia 10 years ago.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:43 AM |
|
|
Which brings me to the point, that a lot of US citizens are so darn touchy about their home of the brave and the wise and the strong, they won't even recognize satire or have a good laugh about their own and others's shortcomings, because everyone is just unfairly picking at the poor US, when they just want to play a little bit.
Jesus Christ, what DO people think, really?
Let's keep on Rockin' In The Free World, shall we?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, in terms of information I don't think there is a difference between USA and Europe. News are a business, and there are different strategies to sell that business: either as a show - the DRAMA of it - which presents news like movies, the human factor and stuff, you know what I mean, and there is the business to sell news as information: without the show, naked, so-to-speak.
There is infotainment; there are disclosure shows that come up with scandals disclosed and so on... There are magazines hosted by conservatives and magazines hosted by liberals.
But everything falls under the category BUSINESS, since everything is catering for a certain clientel.
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:52 AM |
|
|
Well America does have some messed up priorities  . Like celebrities. When they do something that would largely go unnoticed (except by a few) if it was a 'regular' person..you have to sit and hear about it for MONTHS after. Seriously if Mary Jane Public down the street steps out on her husband, you are not going to hear about it on the news. Let Mary Jane Celebrity do so, and you think the world has ended.
It is like because they get paid a lot of money, they have to be better then everybody else. Don't even get me started on salary for some of these 'Celebrities' or 'Sports Figures'. So we know America is not all peaches, and cream..and can laugh at ourselves (even when others poke fun at us) but it does get old after a point.
____________
Message received.
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 10:54 AM |
|
|
JJ, it's not about being "touchy". It's about hearing the same old bull**** hundreds and hundreds of times. It's freaking non stop. After hearing crap ten thousands time it gets really fking old. And it really pisses people off. Much of my life I wanted to visit Europe, but to be quite honest, I don't even want to go to the god damned place any more. I don't want to be around the fking people who live there. Seriously, I've lost all desire to go there. It sounds like a total hell hole. But yea, they probably wouldn't want me there either, at least maybe we can agree on that much.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 11:27 AM |
|
|
If you want it, you'll get it.
What IS the same old bull then that is oh so wrong?
But what I'm even more interested in is why you do seem to think that my portrait of the Europe was somewhat "better" than that of the US?
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 01:44 PM |
|
|
Quote:
del_diablo:
That spending isn't cheap, and it'd have to be maintained, too.
Considering what amounts we are talking about, maintenance is cheap.
____________
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 02:59 PM |
|
|
News is business. So long that there is a profit in it, you can't trust any news outlet. Anybody who thinks FOX is any different from NBC, CNN, the BBC, the New York Times, etc., is a fool. All they care about is your money, so please tune-in for their exclusive coverage of story X now with 50% more sensationalism.
Quote:
I mean, it's all about creating an image over a different reality.
Like
Censorship of violence - Honestly, who are you kidding?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 03:16 PM |
|
|
If the media were only about profit the liberal media would be changing its tune and presenting stories from a more conservative point of view. Liberal networks and newpapers are losing audience. Fewer and fewer people tune in to the liberal media because of their unabashed bias anc campaigning for leftist policies and candidates.
____________
Revelation
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 04:07 PM |
|
|
BBC news...
what you could consider Liberal, they are paid for by the government, and offer barely any slant on their stories. The only places you could find slant is in their satire programs, born out of the era of spitting image. And yet it is still the most watched and most listened to network in the UK. profit is no issue. because the fact they are independent from the government, but still paid for by taxes, the BBC are probably one of the best representation of a broadcasting agency serving the people, but even they aren't perfrect.
also... something rather interesting that I found comparing british and american news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_amyJCLmMY8&feature=related
Charlie brooker. the man, the legend.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 04:14 PM |
|
Edited by Vlaad at 16:17, 03 May 2010.
|
Quote:
News is business. So long that there is a profit in it, you can't trust any news outlet. Anybody who thinks FOX is any different from NBC, CNN, the BBC, the New York Times, etc., is a fool. All they care about is your money, so please tune-in for their exclusive coverage of story X now with 50% more sensationalism.
This is a good point (and on topic to boot), but I think the BBC is a public broadcaster? Something like PBS here?
Edit: Bixie beat me to it.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 04:37 PM |
|
|
I had no idea that the different news programs in the US had different political views.
In Sweden, all news programs are pretty neutral. Which I think is good so people not only hear all the pros and no cons of a particular political view. Lol to all swedish people, imagine if there was a Svergiedemokraterna or Nationaldemokraterna news program on SVT. xD
I would totally watch that every single day.
In school I think we get a bit manipulated. Everywhere in our Social Studies book it says:
"Communism is evil. Communist leaders either want to exploit people to get money for themself or share it with a few select people. There is only democracy and communism. Democracy is good. Communism is evil. There are no flaws with democracy. Everything about democracy is perfect. China is evil. The US is greedy. Cuba is on drugs and North Korea just wants to destroy the world."
That is basically what our Social/society studies/orientation book in school says but I think it would be different to see whats bad with democracy and good with communism too but in our book it's just so black and white.
"All countries that don't have democracy are evil. Even if a country is a democracy, politicans can still decide stuff without the people voting for it. It's still a democracy though. No communistic aspects at all."
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 04:49 PM |
|
|
In order to prevent an overabundance of bad PR, I should probably cover up the nonsense in Mytical's original post.
Political opinions shows = / = the news. Glenn Beck could go on a 45 minute rant on Obama being a camouflaged Jewish squid trying to install the 4th Reich in Washington and it would still be irrelevant.
You can sit down and turn on the news of CNN, CBS, FOX, etc., and receive a near identical presentation. Reporting isn't rocket science. I'm sure there's traces of bias even in the hard news, but in theory it's impossible to be 100.00% objective.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 05:55 PM |
|
|
Well, quite the shame your book confuses communism(failed coup and economic politics) with dictatorship+communism.
As for the entire evil thing:
*China got some corruption to clean up
*US is greedy and thus evil
*North Korea IS evil, per definition A true dictatorship, must not be confused with a few years of the soviet period
*And Cuba needs moral and trade support so they can fix some grieving economic problems. They are quite good off in contrast to their situation
Democracy is a good ruling form, in a few limited cases. So is dictatorship, i wish there exists some teaching books that bothered to teach proper politics.
____________
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted May 03, 2010 06:18 PM |
|
|
@Binabik wrote: {Page 4 ; Post 2}
Quote:
@Ofor, the problem is that people DON'T think for themselves. That's not all people of course, but it's enough to heavily influence things. As I said, it's largely about appealing to emotions and imagery. Those two things circumvent rational thought and it's a highly effective means to stir up trouble in whatever group is targeted. Just because people are capable of thinking for themselves doesn't mean that they actually do it.
On the matter that emotions can influence people into doing irrational behaviour, we agree.
Though, on the matter of the amount of people, who let themselves be manipulated, or in general lack this kind of control (which I like to call a measure of free will), I think we disagree.
Though I have no hard numbers [facts], I'd claim that a good way to evaluate, if people are getting influenced by their emotions, is by looking through their actions. Actions that've no purpose, except the reward response from the body, should at least give some degree of indication.
Of course it's never this simple, because it's not either we only follow our emotions, or we only follow our logic, but maybe it's not too simplistic either.
Also it should be taking into account that because some emotions are harder to resist the temptation of, does not mean we can't resist others.
An example would be the overweight population that seem to increase.
With that said though, I don't really see the problem as being people cannot control their emotions and thereby are to be manipulated.
I think the problem is a problem with the process of democracy. At least as how I understand democracy, every persons vote weights equally.
However I'd like to note, that because someone claims something, it does not become more or less rational, or even true, because thousands of people are backing up about it.
I think this problem could be solved, at least the political aspect, by in stead of letting it be about voting for people, then voting for ideas, but forming the voting form, by letting it be about answering some questions that indirict forms what the person believes in.
I do admit there're probably still flaws in this, and it's just an idea, but as I see it, it at least have much more potential than the current process where it, to me, seem to get a lot more about who's most popular, and the ones who are, are typical those who can generally emotionally effect people through the medias.
Anyway, since USA is still a pretty damn good country [land of the free], I'd say so far, if manipulation have happened, it's at least not been by people with that bad of intentions.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted May 04, 2010 06:03 AM |
|
|
While we all know the news is a bit bias (even the public broadcasting news) let us examine why. The obvious reason of course is money. Regardless if it is for ratings, or what, one of the primary forces that controls the bias is money. Lets look at things like consumer digests (not Consumer Digest specifically, though they would fit in this, but all the things that compair what people buy against other things people buy).
How often have you heard accusations of impropriety by them? Sometimes it is giving a product a much higher 'score' then it should recieve, other just plain failure to do the proper research. Yet a lot of time, people take what they say as 'gospel'. Without doing their own homework. Of course, who could blame the reader? The reader doesn't have access to free demonstrations (all the time), free items, or (often) the knowhow to compair them even if they did have access.
A wise man once said, don't believe everything you hear and only half of what you see..but that was before the mass explosion of information. Now it's don't believe everything you hear OR see. I could claim to be the King of the Dragons..doesn't make it so. Now there is many ways to 'prove' what you say (regardless how patently ridiculous) because just about every crazy theory is SOMEWHERE on the internet and you can just point to a few links and say "SEE? It's right there!" Don't believe the sensationalists like Beck (or anybody else), they are just after ratings.
Don't even go to the websites THEY supply, find your own information..make your own decisions.
____________
Message received.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted May 04, 2010 06:14 AM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 06:15, 04 May 2010.
|
Again I ask, if the media is only about money then why are not the leftist networks/newspapers changing to report the news from a more conservative slant since the liberal networks and newpapers are losing audience?
It seems to me that the leftist medea is driven by ideology, not money. Never in my life have I seen the media fawn over anyone like they have fawned over Obama.
AS for Beck, I wold hardly call him a "sensationalist." He says himself that he is an entertainer who comments on the news.
Beck does great research and I would not advise inoring his links. He posts vidoes and such that show that the leftists said what he claims they said and shows the links between them that he has claimed.
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 04, 2010 06:22 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I'd say so far, if manipulation have happened, it's at least not been by people with that bad of intentions.
Thus paving the road to hell.
Every form of media had some Bias, but the CBC is usually pretty good I'd say. But yes, there probably is a slight bias still on CBC but that's just a flaw of the human condition sadly.
Clearly all political parties must be mocked, it's the nature of democracy.
Liberals and here. Okay, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwLx9Q4lSwc]Here's another[/url]. Stephane Dion was such an easy target he didn't last long in leadership.
Conservatives and here.
Kind of both.
The four major parties.
Too bad most of the good ones were taken down from Youtube. *shrug*
Oh. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DudgQdT5x6M&feature=PlayList&p=091224628C100A68&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=12]Here's on on the incivility of modern politics[/url].
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
| |
|
|
