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Maken
Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
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posted November 10, 2010 05:19 PM |
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Quote:
Since Haven appears to have both a flyer at Core and Champion level, I do not think that they will have a third Elite flyer. Instead, they will probably have a fast, offensive walker.
This could be anything but I suggest a new type of an old creature:
Monks. But these would not be spellcasting Monks, these would be martial war-monks charging into battle with the might of Elrath's light. It would also be strange to not see any monks or priest though I am sure the Magic hero of Haven will be some kind of Cleric, Prophet or Priest.
And griffin being core is based on something other than your wishes?
I just want to understand why you want do downgrade it  , as I believe its very unlikely that a four-squares ferocious mythic beast fights side by side with pikemen and crossbowmen.
And I do agree that there could be a martial-arts monk of sorts. But wouldn't it be more comprehensible a monk as a fast, offensive(or even some sort of support/caster), land, core unit (and more frail to compensate the quickness and damage/support skills) and the griffin as elite with its flying plus whatever more it might get?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 05:24 PM |
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Imo, Griffins can only be core. It's pointless to have 2 cavalry units in the same level range, so one has to be core and the other elite.
Also them being the level 3 creature in H5 doesn't help them 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 10, 2010 05:25 PM |
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Offensive monks? Thought we had enough of that in H5, not like haven has a lack of offensive units.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted November 10, 2010 05:25 PM |
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level 4
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none of my business.
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Maken
Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
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posted November 10, 2010 06:07 PM |
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Edited by Maken at 18:08, 10 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
Offensive monks? Thought we had enough of that in H5, not like haven has a lack of offensive units.
So, maybe support. Buffs, heals, annoying the enemy. Remembering the pdfs, there is written that Haven strengths are mass buffs, heals, resilient creatures, high morale and retaliation.
If heals and buffs are only accessible through heroes and elite+ creatures, along with the low damage, would make core Haven units kind of boring, making the construction of the elite building a must have, not only for more power but more tactic options.
I personally love units that can annoy the enemy, even more if they are not Haven, since its not one of my favorites
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 08:09 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 20:17, 10 Nov 2010.
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Griffins are defintly core. Look at the videos and it fits gameplaywise aswell.
Quote:
Offensive monks? Thought we had enough of that in H5, not like haven has a lack of offensive units.
These would not be shooters or spellcasters. They would be offensive melee creatures charging into the battle and smite their foes.
Personally, I think the only thing Haven (not including a caster) is a strong, mid-level offensive unit since you said yourself the Sun Rider's role would be different from the other games.
Xbowman: Ranged damage dealer. Haven is said to be weak on ranged attacks so I do not expect any other ranged attacker.
Sentinel: It is obviously supposed to serve a role similiar to the Squire in H5.
Griffin: Fits perfectly among the Core creatures. Crossbowmen deal damage from far away, Sentinels protect them and Griffins fly in to help with some additional damage aswell as blocking shooters.
This is the only melee offensive unit in Haven's core while Necropolis has two as the Ghoul seems to be able (from the videos) to cause quite high damage aswell.
Sun Rider: I am going with what you said and asuming that they aren't such efficent damage dealers as in the other games.
"Divine Spirit": Caster. I expect all factions to have some kind of caster. Inferno will probably have Efreet or some new Sorceror-Demon since their description mention lots of destructive spells getting used etc.
Necropolis has the Vampire as their mid-level melee damage dealer so it would make sense if Haven also has one. And I personally think this is going to be some kind of battle-priest or mayhe even some kind of Demon hunter/slayer (think warhammer).
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 10, 2010 08:17 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 20:20, 10 Nov 2010.
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I'm pretty damn certain the Griffin is elite.
12 Vampires attack a stack of griffins and only one dies.
58 skeletons attack a stack of griffins twice and only two die.
So unless the Griffin is the most imba defending core unit in the game, the odds of it being an elite are extremely high.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 08:27 PM |
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hmm really?
well, I only saw the long video once before it got removed and I didnt really analyzie it
but either way, I think that Haven will get an offensive walker creature and the divine spirit creature as a caster
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 10, 2010 08:38 PM |
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I guess griffin is core and that damage is because they nerfed the damage to make the battle more strategical, and about the offensive monk i guess is a monk like diablo 3, very resilient and melee oriented, and maybe, just maybe its evolution might be the paladin tweaked a bit.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 10, 2010 08:50 PM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 10 Nov 2010. |
Edited by MrDragon at 21:21, 10 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
I guess griffin is core and that damage is because they nerfed the damage to make the battle more strategical.
Can't be that because you see Ghouls and Liches tearing through Preatorians like wet tissue paper in the same video.
Also buffing creature HP and defenses to create more tactical battles is very different from dragging out a fight beyond reasonable lengths.
Imagine if like the Necro core stacks, it was a stack of 30 to 70 griffins.
Not to mention after an attack of 4 Griffins and then later another of 3 Griffins, a vampire bit the dust despite it's high HP and defenses, not to mention life leeching attacks.
I'll admit it's possible they did it for the demo, make the stats for the haven units VERY weird.
But it's VERY unlikely.
Edit: Later fight.
7 Griffins attack 11 Vampires, deal 66 damage.
11 Vampires counterattack, deal 117 damage, kill one.
45 Ghouls attack the stack of 6 griffins next, calculation shows inflicting 3 hundred something (can't read) to 373 damage, prediction shows 5-6 will die.
The ghouls are doine much less damage, per ghoul then the vampire.
Vampire hitting for more then 10, ghoul hitting for around 8 damage maximum, and that is with their ability that boosts damage when attacking living targets.
Their attack deals 317, killing 5.
13 Griffins battledive the lich stack, dealing 109 damage, killing one.
Vampires are elite and dealing comparative damage and taking comparative damage to the Griffins, meaning they have similar attack and defense stats, implying they are roughly on the same stat budget, implying they are the same tier.
I'd say the evidence is rather strong.
Edit2: I would like to remind everybody that this data comes from a clip of an alpha build, do not try and calculate unit stats based on this very rough data, it will likely get changed in balance in later builds!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 10, 2010 09:15 PM |
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I think MrDragon argues a good case here, my guess is Griffin is Ellite and that an equivalent to the swordsman fills out the core rank. It does seem like a natural extension of the Heroes 5 line-up - but then, they have stirred the pot a bit elsewhere, so maybe not.
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What will happen now?
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 10, 2010 09:21 PM |
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With griffin being elite, that leaves one core and one elite spot left for the sylph/sun spirit and the swordsman/monk/paladin. Now the only question is who is core and who is elite from these two, of course if this is the actual lineup.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 10, 2010 09:34 PM |
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That would mean no Monk at all? Of course, that would leave an open space for the Swordsman in Ellite - both Praetorian and Swordsman an Core seems perhaps a bit one-sided, but on the other hand in line with previous line-ups.
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What will happen now?
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 10, 2010 09:39 PM |
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The Heaven faction is just too human, one wields a pike, one a crossbow, one a sword, one a lance and sits on a horse, would be too boring to have four humans just different classes for them, the seraph, griffin and sun spirit thing makes it more cooler and would be even cooler if another "new" unit would make his appearance instead of a swordsman.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 10, 2010 10:12 PM |
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It is rather obvious that the griffin is elite and ofc you can't have a haven without monks. Too devout to kick them out.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted November 10, 2010 10:14 PM |
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That leaves 1 core unit.
Warhounds?
PLEASE let it be warhounds
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none of my business.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 10, 2010 10:19 PM |
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Presuming they'll treat the Sun Rider as a new unit, though I'm not convinced yet, I'll have to see them actually working differently.
There will be at least 1 real new surprise.
I don't think we'll get the Footman back.
Both the Pikeman and the Footman seem to be covered by the Preatorian.
So yeah.
Core:
Sentinel
Crossbowman
???/Priest
Elite:
Griffin
Sun Rider
Priest/???
Champion:
Angel
And the ??? will surprise us, but I'm still skeptical of the glowing woman creature thing as an actual unit.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 10, 2010 10:32 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 22:33, 10 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
It is rather obvious that the griffin is elite and ofc you can't have a haven without monks. Too devout to kick them out.
Hm, OK, I'll play along. If the Griffin is Elite and the new cavalier is Elite and if there are monks-like creatures - which hardly can be Core - then the flying ghost-like creature on top of Haven's army on you-know-which screenshot is the third Core. Except if it is not something summoned or... the monk is a nun and the nun is incorporeal.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted November 10, 2010 10:48 PM |
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I think we knew already that the bright-lights figure was a summoned effect or something similar. It looks too powerful to be a lower-tier unit, and the fact that there's only one on the battlefield also leaves me thinking that it's not part of the normal line-up.
If we're looking at one more core unit, it could very well be a swordsman-type unit. So far Haven doesn't have any sword-and-board creatures (pikemen don't count). So my guess is something mobile that's still human and wielding a sword. Like the lower-class version of the Sun Riders.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 10, 2010 10:57 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 23:20, 10 Nov 2010.
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Actually Aosaw, the Sentinel/Preatorian are packing shields in the igromir clip, not to mention much heavier armor then Pikemen.
Edit: Pretty funny it took me that long to notice as they have shields and quite heavy armor in their artwork as well.
So whilst I at first called them pikemen, I'm now under the impression they are a Pikemen/Footman combination unit.
They are obviously heavy infantry, and the Footman is also heavy infantry, putting two heavy infantry guys who are so similar in the same tier seems silly to me.
I mean the only real difference between them is one is holding a spear and the other a sword.
So my bet is on a monk or priest for core, I mean Ghosts are core level caster-ish units now, why not Monks/Priests?
I'm curious what that last slot is though.
I mean obviously that glowing light woman thing is a spell effect of some kind.
She's a lie, an evil scheme, a plot by the artist to put us all in terrible peril.
BEWARE THE EVIL ARTISTS, DO NOT TRUST THEM!
THEY LIE! THEY LIEEE!
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