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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 29, 2011 10:50 AM |
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Quote:
Lemme guess: Your favorite games are Disciples III and Dragon Age II, right?
It's easy to give Heroes the same treatment, just encourage Ubihole to continue down the same path they are on:
I never played any of those. I never played Disciples of any installment, nor did I play any Dragon Age.
And I will indeed encourage Ubisoft to take the franchise down new roads. Life is on the move and you can move along with it or get left behind.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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mfdoom
Hired Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 11:10 AM |
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Black hole are incompetent scumbags,just like Mark of Chaos(stupid TW clone) they are going to steal some dumb ideas,make the game turn-based Warcraft and call it a Heroes.EPIC FAIL.
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted April 29, 2011 12:19 PM |
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quote:
And I will indeed encourage Ubisoft to take the franchise down new roads. Life is on the move and you can move along with it or get left behind.
About what, in God's name, are you talking about?
Entire franchise accepted so many new things, and you are saying that town screens would drag it behind? Guess detached from reality can be fun sometimes but it gets annoying now.
I would accept changes in town screen if they were, well... sane. This town window is so utterly fail that only blind people cant see it.
And please War-overlord can you tell rest of us in exactly which points do you think windows are better from screens, because I have heard a lot of demagogy and not a single fact from you.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 12:23 PM |
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Not the same as it used to be, that's pretty much the definition of something new.
A step in any direction is new to just standing still, even if that is a step backwards.
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Life is on the move and you can move along with it or get left behind.
Look, it's Jesus talking again!
Btw, Heroes 7 (currently under development) is equipped with brand new, advanced hyperstealth megatechnology, making the game completely invisible. Contact Ubihole asap for preordering details.
I'm pretty sure they offer special price for Jesuses this week, so that's another reason to act quick.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted April 29, 2011 12:27 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 12:31, 29 Apr 2011.
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@Dark-Whisperer
I'm fully aware that this town window thing is a product of misplaced focus and lack of resources.
However one explanation and therefor "possible improvement" could be that they wish to see how it would work if they put a greater emphasis on combining the Town screen with the adventure map. For example making town building more visual on the map and then with that making a Town window a supplement to just that.
Just a theory, and something that I "partly" think is a good development.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 12:29 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 12:38, 29 Apr 2011.
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Stop putting words in overlord's mouth.
He explicitly already said "even if that step is backwards" which implies that not everything new is better.
He never said the Town-Windows are superior to Town-Screens.
This is now coming down to your perception of him, not his argument.
V-- Hyperbole alert.
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted April 29, 2011 12:35 PM |
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Quote:
@Dark-Whisperer
I'm fully aware that this town window thing is a product of misplaced focus and lack of resources.
However one explaining and therefor "possible improvement" could be that they wish to see how it would work. If they put a greater emphasis on combining the Town screen with the adventure map. For example making town building more visual on the map and then with that making a Town window supplement just that.
Just a theory, and something that I "partly" think is a good development.
If you are experimenting with one of the key features of franchise, as town windows are seen by so many people, at least you should have plan B if it doesn't work. And it clearly doesn't.
Its underperforming visually, atmospherically, it has no connection to the soul of franchise, and its hated by fans.
Its like experimental hole in new submarine. Lets put crew inside and see how it will behave.
@MrDragon
Quote:
I never played any of those. I never played Disciples of any installment, nor did I play any Dragon Age.
And I will indeed encourage Ubisoft to take the franchise down new roads. Life is on the move and you can move along with it or get left behind.
I really don't see:
Quote:
He explicitly already said "even if that step is backwards" which implies that not everything new is better.
But lets accept what you are saying - That means IMHO that even if windows are step backwards he would still praise it.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted April 29, 2011 12:38 PM |
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Quote:
And it clearly doesn't.
And there we disagree.
What I seen this far looks very good. So far I'm liking H6 town windows a lot more then H5's town screens. Time will tell if I'm going to like it more then H3's ones though...
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 12:59 PM |
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Quote:
But lets accept what you are saying - That means IMHO that even if windows are step backwards he would still praise it.
How would that make sense? He is saying they are experimenting, the experimenting is praise worthy is what he's saying not that the experiment is working, in fact he admits that sometimes the new results is worse.
Him saying the windows are a step-backwards is the direct opposite of praising it. (though he hasn't explicitly stated that either.)
Even if he is pro-townscreen (which I cannot determine from his posts) how is his opinion invalid?
I'm still of the opinion I'd prefer townscreens but I'm not going to say to people who are not as upset by this that they are wrong.
It is a purely visual element of the game and thus comes down purely to preference, it has not objectively altered the game-play in any way.
He might consider this me butting in on his business, or he might not care either way, but attacking people left and right rather then what they are saying does not help this thread.
The majority of the people in this thread, including myself, prefer Townscreens to windows.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 01:00 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:03, 29 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Many towns had two spawn increases, they do the same thing, increase spawn, they don't do anything unique.
In HoMMV, every town or almost every town had two spawn increasers if I recall.
True, but the fact that there are two is unusual, or was in H3 (only Inferno and Rampart had two, everyone else was stuck with one).
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Well, in HoMMIII you still couldn't just have 14 stacks, so a town of your own faction could increase your hero's army rather the replace it.
That isn't just a cross-faction problem though, more than once though I've had to chop-and change on the go because I had 7 stacks, and came across a town of my type in which I had to leave a couple of stacks behind because they were base creatures and I was only carrying upgraded creatures.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 01:00 PM |
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Edited by mancubus at 13:03, 29 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Stop putting words in overlord's mouth.
He explicitly already said "even if that step is backwards" which implies that not everything new is better.
He never said the Town-Windows are superior to Town-Screens.
This is now coming down to your perception of him, not his argument.
Mr Dragon, I'm sorry but you are not paying much attention yourself either.
He may have said new step is new "even if that step is backwards", but later:
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And I will indeed encourage Ubisoft to take the franchise down new roads.
By his definition "new" (as "not like it used to be", not necessarily as "never seen before") per se is welcomed, at least when talking about Heroes franchise. For him, "new" seems to be "interesting", even if it's a step backwards by some standards. And he is empathically unable to understand those other standars.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 01:10 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 13:11, 29 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
]True, but the fact that there are two is unusual, or was in H3 (only Inferno and Rampart had two, everyone else was stuck with one).
And it still did the same thing, but that's not important, we're talking quantity of the structures here.
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That isn't just a cross-faction problem though, more than once though I've had to chop-and change on the go because I had 7 stacks, and came across a town of my type in which I had to leave a couple of stacks behind because they were base creatures and I was only carrying upgraded creatures.
All I'm saying is, a town of your own faction is more desirable then one of another faction, and that being able to convert towns into a town of your own faction is actually an argument for why you might have less buildings, so it doesn't take as long to get your newly converted town up to level where it noticably contributes to your faction's army strength.
Also, Interesting =/= Better.
You're still putting words in his mouth, he has yet to explicitly say that one is better then the other.
He is merely saying (as far as I can tell) that at least they are trying to do new things, some those might not be better.
And even if he does say that, it's not the end of the world.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 29, 2011 01:20 PM |
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I do not see how Town-Windows is a step forward!
Homm5 Towns were a step forward making them 3D animated!
(i personally prefer the 2D in the previous installments)!
But making the town screen smaller pop-up icon which has absolutely non matching "frame" interface (in terms of color and design) and stating "This is for better"????
Excuse me but you should Look closer !!!!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
All I'm saying is, a town of your own faction is more desirable then one of another faction, and that being able to convert towns into a town of your own faction is actually an argument for why you might have less buildings, so it doesn't take as long to get your newly converted town up to level where it noticably contributes to your faction's army strength.
I understand that, I'm just against it, because really, unless the town is a city converting it's not going to seriously impact your income or weaken your forces, which effectively means that conversion is a no-brainer, rather forcing you to make a real strategic choice.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 01:54 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 14:38, 29 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
I understand that, I'm just against it, because really, unless the town is a city converting it's not going to seriously impact your income or weaken your forces, which effectively means that conversion is a no-brainer, rather forcing you to make a real strategic choice.
Town conversion is a resource and time investment as well as that it wipes all structures from the town that are not shared between towns (so all dwellings and faction unique and special structures.)
Not to mention that because of the new tier system's creature pool mechanic there are options to optimize cross-faction unit use.
I'm actually very excited at the prospect of finding ways to get some real kick out of cross-faction armies.
I was only talking about conversion in the context of town structure count.
V-- Great post "warning".
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 29, 2011 02:29 PM |
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Well since Ceph is actively encourageing people to post here and there is the slightest chance that someone from ubihole actually reads this here I go...
I'm not thrilled about the new "townwindows" but it's not a concept I can't get behind. The sad part in this whole affair is the excuse Ubi comes up with.
Townscreens have always been at the very core of the series. They were there to convey a sense of growth and belonging. You would build an empire and your town would grow with you visually. It would give you purpose and give your creatures that at times were a rather ragtag band a unifying theme. You'd never think of a faction without it's representativ town architecture.
Now all of those goals can still be achieved with a town window. It's afterall nothing but a townscreen except for the fact that it's now a window thats perhaps a bit less complex in apperance. There is nothing to complain about if we're talking about the functionality.
The thing is that while it may indeed accomplish the same goals (as a townscreen) a townwindow simply can't hope to match the atmospheric effect and immersion you get from a Townscreen.
Saying that you would sacrifice such an important and highly traditional tool simply to save people a few seconds loading time is prepostrous and in my oppinion treating us like idiots. Whatever ammount of immersion you gain by removing the slight delay while jumping from adventure map to townscreen is lost tenfold with the townwindow.
Now I'm sure you've done a good job with the townwindows and that they look great but you must know that a window can never compare to an actual townscreen. I realize that the explanation:"Yes we wanted townscreens too but due to budget cuts and a limited time frame we simply had to settle for town windows" isn't the most attractive one but it's most certainly the more reasonable one...
If you say "It wouldn’t be Heroes without Hotseat." how can you with a straight face tell us that you'd boot townscreens for a neglectable improvement of loading times?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 02:36 PM |
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Quote:
Town conversion is a resource and time investment as well as that it wipes all structures from the town that are not shared between towns (so all dwellings and faction unique and special structures.)
Was the resource thing even mentioned, because I've never came across it before.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 02:42 PM |
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I think they mentioned it, though I'm not sure, admittedly.
I imagine there's a resource cost.
But... maybe that's just me.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 02:45 PM |
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Quote:
Also, Interesting =/= Better.
You're still putting words in his mouth, he has yet to explicitly say that one is better then the other.
He is merely saying (as far as I can tell) that at least they are trying to do new things, some those might not be better.
And even if he does say that, it's not the end of the world.
"New is good, even if it's bad", doesn't make sense to me. If it makes sense to you, which seems to be the case here, then we have really nothing further to discuss at the moment. "New is good even if it's bad" on this thread sounds like provocation for many. If you are unable to comprehend that, then so be it.
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And even if he does say that, it's not the end of the world
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Define "end of the world". It's your interpretation. Denying that would be just hypocritical.
Btw, I think Overlord can take care of himself, your "help" (consisting subjective categories like "as far as I can tell") is unnecessary.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 03:03 PM |
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"New is good, even if it's bad"
That's not what was said.
It's more like: "Trying to do new things is good, the result of trying new things however can be bad."
There is a difference between the action itself and the result of that action.
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Define "end of the world". It's your interpretation. Denying that would be just hypocritical.
Well, why verbally attack somebody if it's not a big deal?
If you didn't care you wouldn't contest it.
All I am saying is: Even if he does not agree, it's not anything that other people should be that bothered about.
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Btw, I think Overlord can take care of himself, your "help" (consisting subjective categories like "as far as I can tell") is unnecessary.
I already pointed this out myself, it's not about defending Overlord, it's about attacking people for having a different opinion that is in this case even being assumed.
Admittedly, what is hypocrisy on my part is that I myself am still contributing to this, I'd say, rather off-topic discussion that is not contributing to the thread at all.
So I'm gonne cut off here, because this is getting none of us anywhere.
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This thread is pages long: 
