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| Thread: Can people change ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 09:02 PM |
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There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome.
Certain things cannot be changed no matter how hard we try. They can be managed but can't be completely erased. I can't erase my anger no matter how hard I try. I can't change certain parts of me because that's just the way I am and people either accept it or they don't. That's just the way I see things and I respect that you see it differently. From my experience though, certain things can't be changed.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted May 10, 2011 09:06 PM |
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Quote:
There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome.
What about sociopaths?
They can learn to imitate empathy and other such traits but never actually develop any of them.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 09:09 PM |
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Yeah, I agree with DS. That was sort of what I was trying to say as well. 
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 09:09 PM |
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[Responding to your second post smithey] Charisma is simply the fact that someone understands and works with socially approved ways of interacting with others in such as way as to successfully encourage what they want. It is just another perspective that some have and some don't.
You say some have it others don't, does that mean you believe not everyone can have it or that everyone can choose to be charismatic ?
Quote:
As far as not wanting to kill those who do things to children that should in no way be encouraged, but rather punished, let me ask you: would you want to be the kind of person who would NOT want to harm those who damaged those innocents? I am not saying you would harm them, nor to indulge your anger, but if you do not seek to understand and determine if if should be cultivated (it shouldn't, but DO NOT squelch it, simply get past it), then you will become someone you do not like. I would be more concerned that you were not someone who desired to be a good person if you didn't feel similarly.
Right now, I without a dout support death penalty for those, I don't view them as humans but as monsters however that's another topic and my personal opinion, to your question however the answer is average person reacts to such a thing in "that's F'd up, they deserve to get punished, ten minutes later it is just another story in the news"
to me it's a rattling story, and I will be mad for quite some time and cranky to others, that's something I would def want to change but it's a part of my dna I guess, I have that protector approach some have that machiavelli approach, to each their own, but can those be changed in your opinion ?
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 09:12 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome.
What about sociopaths?
They can learn to imitate empathy and other such traits but never actually develop any of them.
That's a mental disorder though, there's nothing they can do about that, their chemistry is off the charts, I was hoping not many here were psychos though that's why I asked 
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 09:12 PM |
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[To William] It is not about erasing. That is not something we are blessed with the power to do. It is about learning how to work with ourselves, learn not to get into situations where we would otherwise behave in that way, and ask for help and support when we have no choice. It is not easy, but I speak from having been blessed many years ago to have had my anger conquered. Strange as that may sound. It took a long time, and was quite painful. But it can be done. That can be the hardest part to accept. You can do it. Don't give up.
[To Dark] Learning how to imitate is not actually gaining a perspective. No matter how much any of us can fool each other, there is One that can not be fooled, cannot be hidden from. Aside from that, what about them? It certainly isn't our place to judge them, unless we are placed in a jury to have to decide it, or unless we sit on a bench that determines that. I know that would be a great responsibility that I don't think I would be prepared for, and I don't mean from lack of understanding about all the laws I would need.
Edit:
[To smithey] You asked
"You say some have it others don't, does that mean you believe not everyone can have it or that everyone can choose to be charismatic ?"
Anyone can have it, but how can you help someone to see what cheese tastes like if they have no sense of smell or taste? If a baby was in a bad house fire and grew up without the ability to smell or taste from it, how could you explain something like the taste of a mango? The smell of a flower? That is an awareness, and although we may ask for help with an awareness, that is not often something we are just granted if we do not apply ourselves, and even then it is not guaranteed. Yes anyone can have it. Does everyone get it? No, but I can only say that if you need something, and it is something that He knows you need, you can get it. Sometimes you only have but to ask. Sometimes, like in my case with what I shared a bit above about anger, it can take the larger part of a decade, or even our whole lives, and even still possibly not be complete. What you ask, depends on each person. That is the difference in every single instance.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 09:15 PM |
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I've got ADHD and ODD so that sometimes can be the reason why I have such a short fuse and not always I can control my anger. I can't know when it'll happen so asking for help may be futile as I could be by myself or whatever. It's easier said than done to be honest and it's impossible really. I have tried throughout my whole life to keep a lid on it and when I think I'm doing well, one little thing can trigger it. So yeah, I just don't think with certain things like that that you can change, unfortunately. 
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted May 10, 2011 09:16 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome.
What about sociopaths?
They can learn to imitate empathy and other such traits but never actually develop any of them.
That's a mental disorder though, there's nothing they can do about that, their chemistry is off the charts, I was hoping not many here were psychos though that's why I asked
Psycopathy = mental disorder
Sociopathy = Personality disorder
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selcy
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2011 09:23 PM |
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Yes people can change but only if they want to and its no good doing it to please someone else cos that doesn't work.
Also you shouldn't try and change someone either again that wouldn't work.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 09:26 PM |
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[To William] Those things are challenges, albeit rather seemingly unfair ones, that you have in this life. Believe it or not, He knew you could deal with them, even if sometimes it seems like they are beyond you. We are all examples to those around us, even when we may not see how we impact others. I know He has and will continue to bless your efforts. Sometimes, we are stronger than we realize, not because we have muscles, but because we are given things not everyone is given to deal with. And somehow, we find ways to deal with it.
I have a rather severe health problem, and have lived with it for pretty much my whole life. I have recently learned that not only is it bad, but it is not what I thought it was-it was something even worse. It hopefully isn't terminal, and I will not share what it is likely any time, but it's not cancer or something like that. I can simply say that while it seemed like a handicap, and honestly has made my life very hard, it was something that helped me to recognize how I needed to be led through my own difficulties with anger in the past. I know that may seem strange, or insensible, but that is how it happened for me. I would like to say that one day you won't have problems with those anymore, and I can-but it will be after this life  Just keep doing the best you can. Medical conditions (which I see those as) are trials we have to endure. How we endure will be a major factor in how happy we can be, in spite of (or because of, hopefully if you can see it that way) throughout our lives.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 09:30 PM |
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I agree that I'll have to endure it and all but it is probably going to be the hardest endurance of my life, one that I will never be able to get on top of. Ive not had the worst life but I've not had the best either. I've had certain things which made me realise that what I'm doing is bad but because of the way that I am, it's impossible for me to stay that way. I feel it in me all the time and anything can really just trigger it so I'd need that to stop before I can even begin of stopping my outbursts and that is, I think, impossible. I like how you have the faith and all but I just really doubt it's possible. I congratulate you on conquering it though and I hope you get through this thing you have.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 09:34 PM |
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@ Mac masta
Quote:
Anyone can have it, but how can you help someone to see what cheese tastes like if they have no sense of smell or taste? If a baby was in a bad house fire and grew up without the ability to smell or taste from it, how could you explain something like the taste of a mango? The smell of a flower? That is an awareness, and although we may ask for help with an awareness, that is not often something we are just granted if we do not apply ourselves, and even then it is not guaranteed. Yes anyone can have it. Does everyone get it? No, but I can only say that if you need something, and it is something that He knows you need, you can get it. Sometimes you only have but to ask. Sometimes, like in my case with what I shared a bit above about anger, it can take the larger part of a decade, or even our whole lives, and even still possibly not be complete. What you ask, depends on each person. That is the difference in every single instance.
Maybe I've misunderstood but having no sense of smell or of taste is a medical issue and one that can't be changed, or were you making an anology and I've missed something ? Lost you in the part of if you need something and he knows you need it, you can get it ?
Are you saying everyone can be a leader if he's aware of himself and of his environment ? because having a high level of selfawareness is actually the part which will make you aware of waht you can be or not be, hence charismatic or not charismatic, empathetic or non empathetic etc.... but maybe I've misundersttod what you have said 
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 09:36 PM |
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Yeah, it can be really hard making it through it. Thank you for your thoughts about my struggles, too. Sometimes it is really helpful having others be there to support you in difficulties.
As far as having the faith, it can be a scary thing to do that, to rely on Him. Everyone makes their own choices. We just don't get to pick our consequences. But He loves every single one of us. I know that. It is w very powerful thing to know, it provides quite a few of those new perceptions and viewpoints I made reference to.
Sidenote: If you ever want to ask for help dealing with things like being angry or upset, William, shoot me a HCM, I will offer what I can.
Note to self-need to watch post count, I will only have 5 left after this, and I still have to save two for my Choose your own adventure thread...
Edit:
[To smithey] Sadly, sometimes things like medical issues (which the lack of smell and taste are, or William's difficulties with ADD, or mine that I referred to) can cause us to be unable to see things. Sometimes we have to recieve inspiration from Him about what those things are, and that may not occur if it is not really and truly necessary. Is that fair? Well, it depends on how you see things.
On the one hand, it is most certainly not fair that some people have to deal with things that would be too much for others. And yet, everyone will have opportunity to learn all they need to if they follow Him. It just may not be all in this lifetime. That can be a hard pill to swallow for some. But we are all different, with different talents and abilities. Would it be fair if, say, there was a power lifting contest between the Hulk, and my grandmother? Not hardly. But perhaps my grandmother needs the impossible odds to really push herself to get going and exercise (just a really out there example, to hopefully clarify). Likewise, Life is not meant to be fair-but it IS meant to prepare us with all we need.
Also-advance apology on making a bit excessive use of edits-I am still flood-protected, and as such, need to save a few posts for my choose ur own adventure thread...I agree with it...just...it can be hard to deal with lol.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 10, 2011 09:45 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome.
What about sociopaths?
They can learn to imitate empathy and other such traits but never actually develop any of them.
The question would be what they want to do.
In a sort of way, I consider people who have problems connecting with their emotional side sort of superior, because they have to actually fight their social oppressions every day, and their worldview is sort of view and hence fascinating.
Besides, they can overcome their bias like everyone else, unless the bias has some rot in reality.
Besides, normal people can never develop respect for empathy in the way a sosciopath can.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 10:13 PM |
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Quote:
[To smithey] Sadly, sometimes things like medical issues (which the lack of smell and taste are, or William's difficulties with ADD, or mine that I referred to) can cause us to be unable to see things. Sometimes we have to recieve inspiration from Him about what those things are, and that may not occur if it is not really and truly necessary. Is that fair? Well, it depends on how you see things.
On the one hand, it is most certainly not fair that some people have to deal with things that would be too much for others. And yet, everyone will have opportunity to learn all they need to if they follow Him. It just may not be all in this lifetime. That can be a hard pill to swallow for some. But we are all different, with different talents and abilities. Would it be fair if, say, there was a power lifting contest between the Hulk, and my grandmother? Not hardly. But perhaps my grandmother needs the impossible odds to really push herself to get going and exercise (just a really out there example, to hopefully clarify). Likewise, Life is not meant to be fair-but it IS meant to prepare us with all we need.
I view the world in a different manner, "If it's not coming from within me, it's worthless in my eyes" but I can see how your perception is different, respect that...
btw macmasta grandma >>>> hulk all day every day, that's an universal truth right there
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted May 11, 2011 03:53 AM |
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I would say it is up to the individual. Sure you can't change certain aspects of your personality when you don't really want too. However, people do experience an epithany. Realize they need to change in order to make things work for them, to better themselves, their circumstances etc.
Being a psychopath or sociopath or other such mental and social disorders are quite different. When the brain functions slightly differently through birth defects, genetic faults or bad luck, making a cognitive decision to change yourself are probably impossible.
I too have ADHD (or at least thats what the child psychologist and school had me diagnosed with). I spent most of my childhood pumped full of Ritalin (when at school), and then spent most of my nights unable to sleep (from aged 7 onwards), because my natural urge to run around and expend energy/imagination had been subdued due to high levels of medication! I'm a raging insomniac now, probably mostly because of this.
I also experienced trauma as a child, which could have made me a very different person. But sometimes with honest self evaluation and the drive and will not to be a victim or a nuisance or just a pain in the ass or loner, you can make these changes.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted May 11, 2011 04:59 AM |
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If you don't have a massively severe case of some genetic problem (Psychosis to the point where you don't feel anything, or something like it), then it should be possible to change at least a little bit. In my personal experience, the only people who can change are those who want to. This requires the person to change or destroy their personal habits regularly, and most people just don't have the will power to do so.
In other words, yes, most people can change, but almost no one will change.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 11, 2011 05:13 AM |
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Answer: Yes.
Reason for answer: I was very negative and depressed and stuff, really not a good person in general. I made an effort to change once I met my girl and now I am a completely different person
Yeah that is under the "by outer factors" topic mentioned in the original post. Meeting your girl will of course change you. Finding love always changes people. That is not your effort. If you didn't find her you would still be negative and depressed.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 11, 2011 05:19 AM |
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My answer is no, people can't change without outer factors. You can't stop caring for people if they didn't make your love shrink themselves. You can't go from shy to very social on command if there won't come anyone or event to change that.
I wish I could though. But again, who woudln't wish? I wonder how many times a person says "I wish I wasn't..."
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 11, 2011 05:37 AM |
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Sooo, to me it seems like there isn't an agreement on what is required to change, one side sees it as a paradoxial question (if you do something different, you did not change, it was just how you develop in any regard) and the other side sees it how?
In any case. Please come with examples of what actions are required to "change", and I'll do those. If not showing it's possible to change, then showing that you've accesibility to all the actions you want!
@Warmonger
Quote:
No, I'm not grown horns or snake tongue yet.
@Will
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Certain things cannot be changed no matter how hard we try. They can be managed but can't be completely erased.
I don't know about that to be honest (no offense intended). You mentioned anger earlier and it can very well be true for you. I when I was much much younger remember having a problem with anger as well. One day I just decided violence does not solve anything and the other kids took advantage of this, were violent towards me, as I would never fight back. Almost a year passed and this girl I had this huge crush on kept on hitting me. The mixture of the yet untamed (but controlled) anger combined with the feel of great betrayal (somehow I figured out she'd never be with me, and I blamed her for it in that passionate moment ), I went berzerk like I had done so many times when I thought nothing of it. That, I believe, was the last time. It's 15 years ago now and I don't really feel anger. I imagine my body just got used to that emotional response had no effect, it was a waste of energy. I do feel other, not very useable emotions though, maybe even easier than others?
@Smithey
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having no sense of smell or of taste is a medical issue and one that can't be changed
Of course it can. It just require more drastic measures than what one usually are prepared for!
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When I hear of "child molestation" I get extremely angry and feel like actually killing the man responsible... question - Is it possible to not feel that way ?
Yes, and it's a waste of energy feeling like this, to be honest.
I'm quite confident that you feel like this, because you imagine yourself saving the child, from the molestation, but it has already taken place!
As a young kid, other kids exposed me for, what I find horrible physical trauma. Some older kids, when they found out, got sympathy with me, and beated up those kids who'd done it to me. I'm certain they went through the same processes, as you did. Now how did I, the victim, feel about it? You know, had those older kids been there, when it happened, and had protected me, not gone down to the level of the attackers, being just as bad, that would have been great. Maybe if they'd have just talked with the attackers, so they'd stop attacking me. But no, like "animals" (no offense intended) they just got an emotions they reacted on and then they had good conscience and that was it. Yeah they wanted to be "best friends" (or rather they wanted to show compassion, in a way like I was a pet to them) and stuff and that was even worse. I felt so forced, like I owed them something. It really only made it all much worse, emotionally. I'd have liked the option to choose for myself.
No, the victim does not need someone to step around beating this man up. The victim needs to be "unmolested". The guy who did it, and for everyone else as well, it's something that needs to be made impossible. Not by limiting the attackers, but by improving the victims defense (and not in an offensive way).
As such, the emotion of anger and lust to go out there and kick his arse is really not something positive (unless being in the actual situation, being able to do something) at all, as I see it.
Edit: Here's an example of what I think is a natural, yet wrong approach.
The problem is, that he does not pray to God for the power to stop what he has done, to undo it, he does pray for God to do this, he does not even pray for forgiveness from those who'll be harmed. No like a child who realises he has accidently done something wrong, he prays for forgiveness from the only authority he recognizes!
It's exactly the same point of this anger issue when hearing something horrible. It's a natural response, but it's selfish. It's only for your own sake you really do this, but it's so easy to convince yourself you're doing it for someone elses. Sure you're welcome to burn energy like this, there's nothing wrong in it, like there's nothing wrong with entertainment, in my opinion it's just a waste of ressources. Especially since it's like peeing in your pants, when you're cold. First it feels good, so it's tempting. Then you give into the temptation, and quickly it feels horrible.
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