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| Thread: Can people change ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 13, 2011 12:11 AM |
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That might be it. It also might be that consciousness is not uniquely defined through what materials are used. We really can't know, cause if another person got your memory, he'd think he was you, not realising the difference.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 13, 2011 12:14 AM |
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Quote:
That might be it. It also might be that consciousness is not uniquely defined through what materials are used. We really can't know, cause if another person got your memory, he'd think he was you, not realising the difference.
I'm not a genious like Tesla however I'm pretty sure that after seeing my newself in a mirror I would realize that I look a bit different  .. just me though
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 13, 2011 12:19 AM |
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Not if your memory tells you, you always looked like what you see, I'd imagine.
Though I don't really think this is very constructive. Good night!
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2011 01:09 AM |
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actually, not just people, but everything is permanently changing (that could be in the sense of just moving) though, I think scientists have a doubt about the most elemental particles actually known.
if objects were impermanent by the way, we couldn't interract with them. moving a book or opening it would be impossible since it's forcing a change on something that is permanent.
of course, by definition, an object can't be sometimes permanent, and sometimes impermanent, if it is permanent, it is for ever. but can it be possible that in some cases, an object isn't subject to any changes at all?
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 13, 2011 01:25 AM |
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Quote:
actually, not just people, but everything is permanently changing (that could be in the sense of just moving) though, I think scientists have a doubt about the most elemental particles actually known.
if objects were impermanent by the way, we couldn't interract with them. moving a book or opening it would be impossible since it's forcing a change on something that is permanent.
of course, by definition, an object can't be sometimes permanent, and sometimes impermanent, if it is permanent, it is for ever. but can it be possible that in some cases, an object isn't subject to any changes at all?
Objects by definition no (however it is limited to what we see as an object after all universe is a bit larger than just our rock)
Matters can be both, remain unchanged or change
Dark matter I have no idea 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2011 02:43 AM |
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well, it's a buddhist vision of things actually.
that time is changes actually. if there was no changes, time would be meaningless. something that doesn't change isn't subject to time. by object, I meant something like a book, a chair...
though it isn't easy to explain. for example, the fact that electrons are always in movement (well, maybe not), that means constant changes.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2011 07:37 AM |
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If we couldn't change, psychiatrists would be the high priests of some strange religion. 
Of course people can change. However, the physics of change are the same as everywhere else. It costs ENERGY to change, and no one wastes energy for no good reason - PERSONAL energy, that is.
In fact, concerning change, people are LAZY, like it was 40 degrees Celsius on a hot summer day and you are supposed to repair the old shack in the yard and make a garage out of it.
Can't that wait? Sure can, but with that it will always be hot and getting hotter - except when you want that Roadster DEARLY - but not without a garage.
Yes, we can, but, heck, it's difficult, and, heck, it's a pain.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 13, 2011 02:23 PM |
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@Smithey
Well if that was the case, I somehow doubt stuff like addiction could happen in the first place. I'm quite convinced they'd still feel rather unpleasent around the whip.
Another example is people who've fought in war and when they hear loud sounds their emotions goes to the extreme. I would imagine it's because they've, through the war, been conditioned to loud sounds meaning danger. Because it's of course not rational.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 13, 2011 02:37 PM |
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Conditioning can never entirely inhibit change where someone wants it badly enough that they are willing to endure pain to change. And that is pretty much the crux of it.
Change happens when one is willing to do something that they are not doing, so whatever emotional/social/physical/mental inertia they are operating under, they have to switch direction. Sometimes it isn't too hard, if that one is used to change, or it is not a major shift.
Sometimes it is like turning the knife blade in the first Tomb Raider movie, where even rotating a knife a simple 180 degrees require pain, and blood.
If you want to change, and it is not something medical, biological, or genetic (forgive me if I am forgetting something), then you can change, if you want to enough and are willing to potentially go through the difficulty and even pain in some cases necessary to become different than you are.
The real question is always, in the end, this: Do you want it enough?
____________
...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 13, 2011 03:08 PM |
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Quote:
Do you think people can actually change ?
There is what i refer to as a change "applied by outer factors" such as "traumatic experience", "discovering god" or "mental disease", there is also a change of going from no confidence to having confidence (but that's pretty much a facial change and not an actual one).
- Basically the question is whether you think people can CHOOSE to change their primal traits such as feeling empathy for example ? Can people go from caring to not caring by choice ? Can people learn how to shut off their emotions, to change their instincts, the way they react to things (on an emotional level not an actual response as seen by the outside world - saying I don't care and actually not caring are two different things after all) ?
Thoughts ? Experiences (with self/others) ?
Switching from caring to not giving a damn is pretty easy, the opposite not so much. An outside influence can be a wakeup slap in the face or one that numbs you to things you used to care about. What I believe is nicely summarized in a planescape torment quote.
What can change the nature of a man?
If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I¢ve seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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ohforfsake
Promising
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posted May 13, 2011 03:17 PM |
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The real question is always, in the end, this: Do you want it enough?
I personally think that's not always the case. Eventhough it may not seem like it, doing certain stuff can require a lot of energy. If you've ever lifted weights, you'll know that a weight that at one point is very easy to lift, seems next to impossible later on. Sure you can still lift it, but you barely have the strength, doing it one more time? Seems unbearable to think about. At one point, you just give up, willfully or not.
Though I'm most certain people can train themselves in not giving up, in keep on going no matter how tough it is and I am certain some are much more talented and better than others at this.
All I'm trying to say is, I think it's much too simplistic to say that it's a matter of wanting it enough. Even by then, it might take a longer time than how long we live in the first place
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 13, 2011 03:22 PM |
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It was never true that anything worth doing in this life would be easy.
At least, not last time I checked.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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KittenAngel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted May 14, 2011 04:05 PM |
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Yes people can change, it takes alot of work and support, and for someone to show you just how cruel/uncaring/hateful/disrespectful...or which ever you really were. It took me 6 years and alot of hardship, and reflection to get to be the person I have now become. You could have asked me in 2004 if I thought i needed to change and I would have told you no denying there was anything wrong with me. As I look back now, and was just out right horrible, disrespectful, noncaring....and well did care about anyone but myself. 2 years ago my life changed for the best, my eyes were opened to a new life and a new me. ALOT of what people told me in 2004 came back to hit me like a ton of bricks and I can honestly say thank you to them for showing me how i truly was.
Now, I am happily married to the man of my dreams, I own a new car, buying my home...we BOTH have steady and secure jobs, and work HARD for everything. for the first time in the 33 years of my life I can stand on my own 2 feet, and look back at my life and can actually say I am proud of who I am today. I do not put MYSELF first before anything now, my husband and I always work as a team and do things as a family, as it should be done.
So people can tell you NO people can not change, but they can IF and only IF they choose to.
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted May 14, 2011 04:05 PM |
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It was never true that anything worth doing in this life would be easy.
At least, not last time I checked.
I wonder what that "Worth" is?
Wealth?
Success?
Happiness?
All of them?
None of them?
People don't change,only behaviours shift.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 14, 2011 04:11 PM |
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I'm quite sure that what "worth it" is, is only depending on what you find worth it.
For some it's wealth. For some it's fortune. For some it's to write with Seraphim
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted May 14, 2011 04:27 PM |
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I'm quite sure that what "worth it" is, is only depending on what you find worth it.
For some it's wealth. For some it's fortune. For some it's to write with Seraphim
Well,what if you are in state of mind in which nothing really matters?
I wonder if it is possible to change while in depression?
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KittenAngel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted May 14, 2011 04:34 PM |
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Well,what if you are in state of mind in which nothing really matters?
I wonder if it is possible to change while in depression?
YES!! with the right support you can
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 14, 2011 06:20 PM |
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You know what mandie, I heard that same speech all too often & before.
BUUUUUT!!!!
We was still in our 20's & just kids as well.
I changed.
If you really changed then with me saying it. I am very proud of ya.
Even though you & you friends treated me like crap last year.
We all sometimes stick with the old, because that is our persona.
You got to be honest with yourself & not just saying what you want us to hear to look good.
Money & material things are not as important to me as my friends, family & Selina right now.
I would give my last cent to them before i think about myself.
After last year, i got to say I see some changes, but i saw some of the immaturity that you still had.
Like I said, I really hope for the best with ya.
Yea it was tough, but i also seen you go through alot as well.
It was not easy for ya as well. With Mark, the kids etc.
Be honest with yourself & dont worry about what WE think.
What we think is non important, what your hubby & yourself think is what is important. If you got hardships, come in here. We will give advice.
We are human after all. We all make mistakes. Even MVass who thinks he is more intellectually mechanically super then just human
Just be straight. No I dont mean the other kid of straight
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
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KittenAngel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted May 14, 2011 06:24 PM |
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Quote:
You know what mandie, I heard that same speech all too often & before.
BUUUUUT!!!!
We was still in our 20's & just kids as well.
I changed.
If you really changed then with me saying it. I am very proud of ya.
Even though you & you friends treated me like crap last year.
We all sometimes stick with the old, because that is our persona.
You got to be honest with yourself & not just saying what you want us to hear to look good.
Money & material things are not as important to me as my friends, family & Selina right now.
I would give my last cent to them before i think about myself.
After last year, i got to say I see some changes, but i saw some of the immaturity that you still had.
Like I said, I really hope for the best with ya.
Yea it was tough, but i also seen you go through alot as well.
It was not easy for ya as well. With Mark, the kids etc.
Be honest with yourself & dont worry about what WE think.
What we think is non important, what your hubby & yourself think is what is important. If you got hardships, come in here. We will give advice.
We are human after all. We all make mistakes. Even MVass who thinks he is more intellectually mechanically super then just human
Just be straight. No I dont mean the other kid of straight
I know your being honest Acu, thats one of your best qualities...I am being 100% honest with yall.
and you 1,000% right material things mean nothing without friendship, and love. Lee has opened my eyes to alot of thing. I'm so proud to be able to call him my husband. =)
I'm also happy for as well, like i have told you a few times
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 14, 2011 06:28 PM |
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Haha well getting away from the past def helps. With whats her name, your old blood sister. Mark etc. Sometimes the past beats you down & you just need to get away to help change.
Sounds like Lee is a good guy.
Dont let your past Mess it up.
Make sure he drinks alot of alcy before he does certain things to ya
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Dreaming of a Better World
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