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| Thread: The Demo.... first timers |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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chimthegrim
Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
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posted August 26, 2011 07:21 AM |
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I really enjoyed the demo. I'm in love with the gameplay - it is waay better than I had expected it to be. Though, I gotta admit I miss those epic town screens. Also, I'd like some more variety of factions cause I gotta admit 5 isn't enough. And I got to add that I dislike the fact that the water elemental is just a recolor of the mizu kami and that the light elemental is just a recolor of the radiant glory, I'd enjoy them more if they had new models + skins. And finally I'd hope to hear a remixed version of HoMM III's Combat 2 track in the official release - it was the best track IMO.
I have experienced relatively smooth gameplay with few glitches. I'm in general agreement with the above quote. So far, Heroes VI is exceeding my expectations. So this is a great feeling, to think that Heroes V's glitchy gameplay will be in the past for the series (at least on my computer--haha).
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 26, 2011 07:58 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
They need to have stuff like Living creature etc for game mechanics (so that Healing works etc).
No, they can make it work on everything except Mechanical, Undead or Elemental. The way Heroes 4 did it, for example. Despite HOMM being a fantasy game, these creature types are in minority. It doesn't make much sense to explicitely label the most common creature type.
Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic has a similar issue. When you're examining creatures, you may find abilities like "Walking" or "Strike" (the ability to hit targets in melee).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 26, 2011 08:34 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 08:37, 26 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
They need to have stuff like Living creature etc for game mechanics (so that Healing works etc).
They really don't, though. H4 didn't have it & H5 didn't have it.
Healing would work for all creatures not undead, mechanical, etc.
As of right now, the GUI is so cluttered that it really takes away from the experience, it's not at all user-friendly.
EDIT: Beaten, sort of.
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IronWolf
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2011 06:20 PM |
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I played the demo and I have to say that I am highly disappointed with this game so far. I am a huge fan of the series (HOMM2 is my favorite by far, though I like a lot HOMM3 and HOMM5 too), but this game doesn't feel like Heroes at all to me - more like a conversion of some generic real-time-strategy to TBS.
My biggest fears about the major changes in the game proved to be justified:
Tier system overhaul:
Instead of having 6-7 unique creatures per faction and having only small similarities between parallel tiers in different factions, now every faction has the same 3 variations in core and elite tiers. Basically, somewhat like the proven-to-be unsuccessful attempt of HOMM4, only worse (at least H4 had 4 tiers and only 2 somewhat similar creatures per tier). Oh yeah, having 3 essential factions less (elves, wizards, warlocks) is another great idea.
Town window:
Beats me how an idea of actually DISABLING a great feature was approved. The new screen seems just pathetic, its a spit to the face of Heroes legacy.
Isn't it clear that it severely damages the amazing HOMM atmosphere that the series are known for? Towns (now not even having mage guilds anymore) became no more than a table with an ugly "2.5" view.
Graphics, animations and artwork:
Beats me how some aspects of this theme actually became worse. Weapons hitting opponents without even nearly touching them, Heroes hit foes who "agree" to fall down only after 2 seconds, many creatures look just too much alike (and also have names that have nothing to do with the HOMM tradition) and the sequences throughout the campaign are still immensely stupid (the sequence about 2 orcs approaching a town gate in the campaign 1st map? is this for real?). Fail.
Heroes development:
Boring. Instead of having distinguished skills, now every skill is a statistic of some sort - 10% defense here, higher movement for 2 turns there. Very unimaginative.
Bottom line:
I can understand the need to create new material and not to duplicate the same game over and over again (although I highly doubt that it's the actual reason for the new changes in the game). What I cannot understand is the disabling of key features, of making things simpler on purpose and of repeating past mistakes again. I liked H5 (a lot!) despite it's shortcomings and I enjoyed playing the flawed H4 too, and was really excited when they only came out, but H6 actually bored me after only a couple of hours. I underline the fact that as a huge fan, this fact amazes me - and yet this is what I feel.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 29, 2011 06:38 PM |
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I find it curious that you feel this way about the tier system, if anything it allows for a lot more tactical possibilities than H5. The number of abilities, the fact that certain units are more focused on fulfilling a certain role and must interact with each other for maximum benefit..
Animations are occasionally still bugged, for one hero direct attacks. And town screens will be improved but sadly not in time for the release.
I hate that thing about the skills, we are trying to change what we can.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 29, 2011 08:02 PM |
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And town screens will be improved but sadly not in time for the release.
In patch or in expansion? And what if game won't sold well?
They will still release "town screen update"?
Frankly speaking almost all of their changes are neutral or good in my opinion.
Gameplay still feels like old heroes. By that I mean "chess" like game with your creatures having an ability to kill. Awesome!
By reducing resources and introducing area of control they manage to make game more competitive. For example, now player can't easily annoy other player by just stupid "take mine and run away".
To be honest, you rarely needed different faction resources, so losing them was not a big deal. Because of that losing some of them was not heart breaking.
At last! They have revamped that "retarded" random skill system. Also nerffing magic hero and boosting might one was so long expected.
I don't perceive current skill system to be dull. Some skills/spells need to be dull. But they are in the same flavor as skills in previous Heroes games.
There are also some crowd control abilities like: immobilizing target, blocking, reducing movement, binding flayers, make creature go away etc...
It's really hard to be more creative than this if developer deal with Heroes series typical battlefield. Just think about it what can you do more?
One of my favorite feature... Different gender and models for heroes! There is no longer a need to look like Big-Fat-Demon, even if on portrait you are tinny succubus... I took them 4 games ( with exception of Heroes 4, which for me simply did not happen ) to make this happen.
In my opinion this game have potential to be better than Heroes III, which is quite an achievement. But this can only happen if they fix most bugs and balance factions. I hope they are "far enough" to make this on time.
On commenting town windows... It is hard to comment a crap.
Some personal feelings:
My heart was broken when Kreegans Empire collapsed ;(
My beloved faction.
In Ashan, they gave us "daemons" instead.
Changing Inferno from "diabolic" to "demonic" flavor essentially made this faction no longer appealing to me. And then, again, cutting my tinny little Cerberus a head! O_O I was shocked!
And where, oh, where are mine ArchDevils? With Scythe! with red skin! with horns! And last, but not least, with BEARD!
BEARD WHO CAN CHANGE THE WORLD!!! ARghhh1! ;D
But I understand, this is Ashan, not Erathia.
Well, fortunately I also like Dwarf faction but I doubt they will put them into the game in the future expansions.
Eh ;(
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Evilsausage
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 11:29 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
In my opinion this game have potential to be better than Heroes III, which is quite an achievement. But this can only happen if they fix most bugs and balance factions. I hope they are "far enough" to make this on time.
Im sorry but i don't really agree on that.
They are gonna have to do more then just balance and bug fixes to make it as awsome as Heroes 3.
When Heroes 3 came it was just absolutly mindblowing for its time and improved alot of stuff that heroes 2 lacked.
I can't say Heroes 6 impressed me very much, sure it has some new stuff but some of the changes have not been for the better.
I was actually more impressed by Heroes 5 when it came 2005, even if it had many flaws, it was also the game that first introduced some really good features like full 3d both on land and in the town screen, more strategic battles, unique faction special abilities, more unique unit special abilities, impressive effects, sounds etc..
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 31, 2011 11:57 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:57, 31 Aug 2011.
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sounds
H2 had the best sound effects. I otherwise agree.
BLAH
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 01:24 PM |
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Im sorry but i don't really agree on that.[...]
When Heroes 3 came it was just absolutly mindblowing for its time and improved alot of stuff that heroes 2 lacked.
I can't say Heroes 6 impressed me very much, sure it has some new stuff but some of the changes have not been for the better.
[...]
I was not talking about "impression" rather particular features which have a chance to improve gameplay.
I had problem with Heroes III balance issues and lack of hero look customization. In H5 they were still there. In H6 some or all of them are really looking to be improved. In my opinion balance is one of most important thing since it influences competitive gameplay.
With exception of "town windows" and some UI problems, it is really hard to evaluate some changes as bad. At most they can be perceived as neutral, for eg. H3 introduced caravans to solve creature travel problem ( from dwellings ), however H6 is going to use Area of Control to address it. If you think about it more carefully it is at worst neutral change from H3.
Which changes are bad?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 01:40 PM |
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H3 introduced caravans to solve creature travel problem ( from dwellings )
No it was H4.
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however H6 is going to use Area of Control to address it. If you think about it more carefully it is at worst neutral change from H3.
Area of control doesn't replace the caravan, it's the retarded shared growth that does that.
Quote:
Which changes are bad?
Let me take my breath ...
1. Healing spells
2. Shared Growth + City conversion + Town Portal
3. Well ... Town Portal
4. Skill bushes ... I mean copy-pasted Skill trees
5. Resources change + copy-pasted Building trees
6. Siege battles (attacker side) + Siege Master skills
7. Boring battles
8. Instant City conversion
9. Morale triggering before a unit acts
10. Allowing players to retreat once they see the opponent's army composition
11. Not being able to arrange your army's default starting positions
12. The game not remembering your army's starting positions from a battle to the next (having to reposition all your army when you have tactics at the start of every single battle)
13. Camera resetting its position when you release the mouse button
14. Some overpowered artifacts
15. Ugly interface (including the town screens, but not only)
16. Useless forts
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 31, 2011 01:44 PM |
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Boring battles
Why that? I thought they had decided to put a bigger emphasis on (harr harr) strategy than its predecessors.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 01:55 PM |
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I don't agree that all those changes are bad.
Quote:
Which changes are bad?
Let me take my breath ...
1. Agreed on healing spells, they just slow down the game.
2. The Shared Growth does not bother me. The City Conversion does though, but I think we will be able to turn it off. I like the town portals.
3. -
4. I like the skill trees. You can make more diverse and interesting builds now. But there are things in the skill system that I miss from H5 (like all the unique perks such as Cold Death, Plague Tent etc).
5. Agreed a 100%.
6. Agreed. They are very tedious.
7. Semi-agree. The game is a little bit to slow, but most creatures have more interesting abilities than in H5.
8. -
9. I love that you can see Morale! I don't like it to be random.
10. Agreed.
11. Yeah, this sucks. Basic Tactics should be given to everybody.
12. That also really sucks.
13. Isn't there an option to turn off the camera resetting?
14. -
15. I agree, the UI is the least creative one I have ever seen in a game.
16. Agreed, forts should have a bigger role.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 31, 2011 01:57 PM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 13:58, 31 Aug 2011.
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Not only Heroes 3 didn't introduce caravans... I think it introduced the problem with creature dwellings. You see, in Heroes 2 creatures accumulate at a dwelling (adventure map). This eliminates the weekly grinding. As far as I remember, in Heroes 3 you have to visit a dwelling each week ! In Heroes 2, you visit it when convenient.
Additionally, this makes nomad camps, medusa ruins, bandit wagons much more valuable. Even if there are just two goblin huts, and you defeat the guards on week 4 - they're still useful, that will be a lot of goblins.
Speaking of heroes 2 sounds, liches sound awesome too ! Check out the battle at 4:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03iFFSWcyMc
Xerox:
Yet you failed to mention which points you don't agree with and why. This makes your post 100% opinion, 0% substance.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 03:12 PM |
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Edited by Gweret at 15:22, 31 Aug 2011.
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I did not remember about H4 caravans, my bad.
Quote:
Quote:
Which changes are bad?
Let me take my breath ...
[...]
1. From almost useless state ( usable mostly on champions ) to little powerful at times. It depends what you prefer.
2. and 3. In previous games player had a chance to get town portal spell ( it was a little random, from earth school ) or from leveling. Its almost the same.
Shared growth doesn't mean that much on some maps, it is rather a question if 100% army of given faction is better than mixed army.
For eg. would you prefer to have 2x pitfiends and cerberus or 1x pitfiends and 1x cyclops instead of Cerberus?
Even with shared growth on some maps ( large ones ) there is sometimes still a need to distribute your army.
On small and middle maps you won't have that many chances to use shared growth.
4. -
5. If you mean reduction of resources: Player rarely ever cared for losing resource his faction did not need.
6. 7 -
8. In my opinion extending time of conversion won't matter that much. For eg. extending to 7 days conversion for full build 3 tier town. This could be usable only on large maps which last relatively long.
Try to think if 2 or 3 days would matter with option to cancel it, especially when it is attacked.
9-13 -
14. some of them are imbalanced, yes.
15. yes
16. Their functionality could be improved.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 31, 2011 04:08 PM |
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ad. 1:
Healing is now basically resurection. I dislike it. While Heroes 1-3 may promote offense a little too much (damage dealt before retaliation), it made combat very dynamic. Casualties are avoided mainly by assuring you are the first to strike (slow, haste) or disabling units with spells like Blind. Heroes6, it seems, is like a MMORPG game with cliche unit roles like tank, damage dealer, and healer. Casualties are avoided largely by using spells or units that heal a stack. In my opinion this results in slugfests and slow combat.
(and don't get me started on harpy attack taking about 13 seconds)
ad. 5: "wrong faction" resources matter hugely when you encounter a village of different type. Or when you want to build the guild. Frequently you have to choose between building the guild or another castle. Or even skip level6(7) creatures in favor of the guild. Heroes1-2 also had Genies, powerful neutral creatures which required gems.
Resources had subtle uses:
- trade them at a marketplace
- you can deny the other resource to your opponent. Take sulphur from Warlock, and this doesn't mean you can build Cathedral (paladins), Cloud Castle (titans) or Red Tower (Phoenixes).
- theoretically, they could be traded in multiplayer games larger than 2. But no one plays that.
ad. 14:
Every single Heroes game had issues with artifact balance. It's most ridiculous in Heroes 1. Random artifact can be Endless Bag of Gold, Boots of Mobility, or Fizbin of Misfortune (-2 morale, can't be given to another hero). Anything goes !
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 05:27 PM |
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Quote:
1. From almost useless state ( usable mostly on champions ) to little powerful at times. It depends what you prefer.
I think they were ok. well, sure for a level 1 spell it wasn't very useful in very early game, but later it was a cheap way to keep your first few tier 6-7 alive
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 31, 2011 07:02 PM |
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Don't forget that the main use for Heal spell in previous games was not to actually heal HP (which was sort of a side effect in most cases) but rather to remove negative effects. Very powerful tool against other Magic heroes.
As for the Ressources, I didn't mind 4, but I could agree that less could do it also. I think 2 or 3 Ressources would have been obvious choice with new tier system, so that your three units cost either dominantly one of the three, or alternatively had one of them charging primarily Wood and Ore. Only 1 rare ressource is just lame, because all your buildings compete over the same ressource (which I find boring).
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What will happen now?
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 31, 2011 08:38 PM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 20:43, 31 Aug 2011.
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Ahh, the Cure spell. In Heroes 1 it doesn't even restore any HP, at least the description doesn't mention it.
I think the First Aid skill could be fine if it just allowed you to remove hostile enchantments. Wait, that sounds like the Resistance skill... nevermind.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 09:27 PM |
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Borsuk wrote:
Quote:
Heroes6, it seems, is like a MMORPG game with cliche unit roles like tank, damage dealer, and healer.
Have a look at stronghold: shooter, damage dealer, flyer as a core creatures. In given tier it is not always like in MMO typical roles but yes it happens.
About healing:
Would you think that keeping healing with no resurrection feature and introducing 3th lvl light magic Resurrection spell would improve current gameplay?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 31, 2011 09:38 PM |
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Don't forget that the main use for Heal spell in previous games was not to actually heal HP (which was sort of a side effect in most cases) but rather to remove negative effects. Very powerful tool against other Magic heroes.
I had the H4 spell in mind.
and I guess there is no first aid tend in H6? it wasn't a bad solution either.
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