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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted December 27, 2012 07:43 PM |
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While new perspectives on things are good and has made us think again about balance, in this case I'm not convinced.
I lost my last duel with clear margin even if I had a blood mage with good artifacts boosting the element my opponent was vulnerable to.
I think tear-magic was overpowered but the lower reputation fixed that somewhat thanks to shorter duration of disabling spells. (petrification, time stasis ...)
The proposed way of keeping to the selected faction and hero could work - but could also be boring if everybody choose the same.
Another proposal:
Tournament of Might, since there has been a lot of magic in the duels so far.
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted December 27, 2012 08:14 PM |
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but might is boring 
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted December 27, 2012 08:29 PM |
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Well, I am here and available now if you can be here Nikolas, although you said that was rather unlikely. Your proposed time hits diner time now that I think about it, might be hard for me to be there. Then again, I wasn't up until 18:00PM your time, so that wouldn't have worked either. If you get here at or close to midnight, that would be ideal, but maybe something else can work. How late are you willing to stay up?
On the matter of balance, here's more theorycrafting for fun and no profit. There are 2 things that can kill stuff : units and the hero. Typically (and grossly exaggeratedly) magic heroes do a lot of the killing (at least as blood) while might heroes rely on their superior units to do the work for them. In classic duels the heroes being lvl 30 reputation 2 is completely disproportionate to the amount of units given, it's no wonder magic dominates. What is tried here is to rectify the balance between the 2, so that might heroes have a better chance. Kayna's solution puts units way stronger than hero, which I don't like, because that's like going to a lesser evil : it's still an imbalance. Things are more equal, true, but that's because there's very little you can do that's particularly viable. There's essentially 4 things a hero can do : buff units (passive or no), kill units, heal units, summon units. The amounts a hero can kill/heal/summon is completely ridiculous in the scale of armies you propose, which leaves buffing of units. Mages can do it through a variety of spells, warriors can do it through many passives and warcries. Somewhat equal between the 2, but it's kinda lame still.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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KaynaCrous
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 27, 2012 08:47 PM |
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Quote:
That could be avoided if you HCM your select race at the beginning of the tourney, secretly, to someone who's neutral. He can then post all of the races once everyone has sent it in.
That is way better than random-ing the races.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted December 27, 2012 10:46 PM |
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I lost to Nikolas. I made a really dumb thing of not noticing putting vestals there on the first turn puts them in range of the maulers, who then mauled them to death. Or well, near it. After that, it was closer than it should've been, but I didn't quite recover.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted December 27, 2012 11:10 PM |
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But some people just don't want to play the same race all the time, others would rather have a tourney won by a guy who can play all races as opposed to a guy who's a 1 trick pony.
Hard luck simplez, but i expected yo uto lose. Your heart didn't seem to be in it 
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KaynaCrous
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 28, 2012 05:15 AM |
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BTW I've thought a bit and can now provide a good argument to my argument instead of just talking on intuition:
Duel heroes have 30 points but no artifacts.
Your settings has a hero lvl 20 but with artifacts boosting stats by a lot.
I can make a hero on your map, put points in spells instead of passive abilities, take stats boosting artifacts and end up with the equivalent of a duel hero, yet the army provided by your map is lesser than a classic duel. Only real difference is that there are no second level blood or tears available. So something like the classic duel army + 50 % boost to units seems like the best balance to me. If you do that, every mage might blood tears will be good.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2012 01:30 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:37, 28 Dec 2012.
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You have misunderstood what this tourney is all about. It is meant to draw people into playing and enjoying casual games with friends, not to provide a competitive multiplayer experience. I have been running duel tourneys for over 2 years now and nobody ever complained about my sense of fairness or my integrity because.. what would be the point in that? I play for fun and invite like-minded people to do the same. I don't care what matchup I get because worst case scenario I get a more challenging and fun game. Not like there are prizes to be won, not in this tourney anyway  Do not be fooled by the formal masterpost, all those rules are there to avoid any kind of arguments or disagreements with dishonourable or unclear cases. In truth all there is to it is treat your opponent with respect and avoid abuses. If you think the same I would gladly have you in the next tourney.
But what you are saying makes little sense I'm afraid. I have been doing this for a long time and experience has proven that even a single extra week of army strength can greatly tilt the scales towards might or magic. Have you even played one game on this map before reaching any conclusions? For the time being your words carry no weight as you have not tested what you talk about. Balance is a lot more dynamic than one would think.
EDIT:
Btw I have already mentioned a few times that you can discuss the matchup with your opponent, my rolled matchup being the undisputed failsafe should you fail to reach common ground.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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KaynaCrous
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 28, 2012 04:56 PM |
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Allright. Well, I insisted enough. Though I'm still willing to try a few games to see first hand too.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2012 05:14 PM |
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That's the spirit  I'll be back home later this evening, around 22:30 gmt +2. If you have time I'll see you then, cheers.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted December 28, 2012 06:16 PM |
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HEY! I COMPLAINED! .... I just have no idea what i'm talking about
Also, you may THINK you can skip the passives, but experience has taught me that those passives usually mean more in a fight than spells and war cries, somethign I am currently attempting to implement more in my builds.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted December 28, 2012 06:59 PM |
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I never skip passives. That's something I've always noted in these kinds of discussions, active abilities are only useful so long as you use them. Otherwise, a passive would have been beneficial.
The point isn't that passives suddenly become useful (they already are), it's that they suddenly become that much more powerful, because the units they buff are themselves much more powerful.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2012 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:57, 30 Dec 2012.
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Nikolas(Necro) vs Elvin(Inferno)
Finals starting tomorrow, had some technical difficulties again.. We plan to make it a best of three so it will be decided in 2 wins. First game is necro vs inferno and for the second we will have the same matchup, only we switch races. The third matchup will be a common decision.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted December 30, 2012 07:19 PM |
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Quote & Comment
Quote:
but might is boring
Just like too much magic (or too much of anything), maybe after some more tournaments of magic people want to play might.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2012 07:46 PM |
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I have been known to arrange independent cups as was the Order, Chaos and Bonkers( ) cup back in the day. A Magic cup would no doubt be fun except tears magic does not work very well against a barrage of blood spells. That would limit games to blood vs blood and tears vs tears mages as tears works far better against its opposite class - say tears might against blood magic or tears magic against blood might. What might be more interesting is host a Tears cup, a Blood cup and the top 2 finalists from each cup have a Blood Vs Tears final Would be a good opportunity to get some prizes from Irina.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted December 30, 2012 08:03 PM |
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Quote:
I have been known to arrange independent cups as was the Order, Chaos and Bonkers() cup back in the day. A Magic cup would no doubt be fun except tears magic does not work very well against a barrage of blood spells. That would limit games to blood vs blood and tears vs tears mages as tears works far better against its opposite class - say tears might against blood magic or tears magic against blood might. What might be more interesting is host a Tears cup, a Blood cup and the top 2 finalists from each cup have a Blood Vs Tears final Would be a good opportunity to get some prizes from Irina.
Aside from stronghold, when you tried tears magic vs blood magic, did you pick the prime school passive magic defense bonus? That's around 10 bonus to magic defense, surely that helps?
I'm thinking tears inferno magic could have a decent chance at beating blood magic. Focus on keeping stuff alive with buff spells and regen, and drain as much mana as possible through the breeders. D'you think it would be possible to survive through the enemy mana pool this way? After that, might have a chance.
The devs need to make a mass version of the fire shield. One without damage back if need be (I'm guessing that's why it's not mass). Right now we lack a mass magic defense spell.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2012 08:21 PM |
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Of course I have, I'm the one supposed to be teaching you, not the opposite  Also it is pretty hard to out-mana a magic hero unless he is unprepared, it is unlikely to happen with meditation and mana regeneration. Inferno might have a better chance than most but I am not so confident about the rest.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted December 30, 2012 10:58 PM |
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Best case scenario is vs stronghold, pretty sure tears inferno can out mana them. As for the rest, that is up for grabs.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2012 11:56 PM |
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Congratulations to Nikolas, his might tears hero managed to take down my pyromancer army after a long, hard battle.
I had the fire booster that he countered with Arkath's cloak but even so my fire spells did significant damage His vampires went kamikaze on my breeders but while resilient they were eventually weakened. That didn't prevent him from trolling my units with a taunt though
As expected from a good player his army was divided in the two corners, with liches, ghouls and lamasu to the left and skelies, ghosts and weavers to the right. A good fireball and some shots on the liches left them crippled from the very beginning but the skelies were a force to be reckoned with. With toughness III, +2 to hp and archery III they were powerhouses. Their corner was invaded by inferno that kept switching between ghosts and weavers.. The ravagers had blocked the weavers from shooting and after they started weakening the lamasu came to finish them off. Just in time for me to blast the whole corner with a good fireball ^^ Hurt my ravagers too but was well worth it.
After the spiders died, the lamasu took the offensive and nikolas started raising them like there was no tomorrow. My spells were doing a fine job at taking them down and same goes for my two breeders but my army was suffering casualties. And just as I thought I had the upper hand I made the most basic mistake of them all: I forgot to cover the weaver corpse and nikolas brought them back! There was no coming back from that one. It is uncertain if the game would have been mine otherwise as there was also reinforcements waiting to come in play but the odds looked good. Nikolas is a tricky one
One more win stands between you and the golden cup!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted December 31, 2012 02:17 AM |
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Sounds like you needed much implosion
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This thread is pages long: 
