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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 07:57 PM |
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Are there any ethnicities, really?
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 08:22 PM |
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Of course. But they are mostly non-Slavic and do belong to the ethnic minorities.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 09:33 PM |
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Edited by Aron at 22:31, 09 Apr 2014.
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Geez, we going full nazi now? What is ethnicity but prolonged cultural assimiliation?
We all come from the same stock in the end. Russians are ethnic russians because they identify as such.
Traditional Russia consists of primarily the Muscowite and Novgorodian and Yaroslavian etc. Also Novgorod was never conquered by the Mongols. These kingdoms and settlements are fusions of proto-germanic tribes, scandinavians and slavs traveling on the Volga, Dniepir and Don rivers.
edit: This is today but in the broadest sense the East Slavs or Rus people were all more or less united during one period:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:East_Slavic_tribes_peoples_8th_9th_century.jpg
These slavs were already a broad mix and before they got mixed up they were even more the same since they all came from behind the black sea primarily.
(It's an interesting subject actually. Since early greek villages are lacking in inner Anatolia but ancient Minoan Culture predates the earliest Italic and Greek civilizations then where the hell did the Minoans come from? Some suggest they were excludeded from Myceanan society before they themselves became a civilization. But it all gets even more messed up when you consider that the first actual homo-sapiens came into Europe some 40 000 years go. So did the Indo-Europeans exterminate the early citizens? O_O! And then we have the Neanderthales and figures ranging in the double-digets when it comes to neanderthale DNA spread in modern European humans. So dear racists (any reading this): 40 000 years ago we actually did screw a different *race*  the aryans probably being the least pure men around! )
Ah let's go full retard and go OT completely.
Did you know the Minoans were basically commies or maybe hippies? ^^
They lacked private palaces, kings were administrators and never dictators, food was stored communaly, doors for anything but protection were rare, individual homes were rare (collective living), women were more or less equal the men. Skillful merchants outwards but inbetween each other they shared almost everything.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 11:53 PM |
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@Kip
You have a very strange understanding of dignity by mixing it with materialism. But anyway you are exaggareting, no such thing like cutting pensions in half, and I will repeat, it is stupid to think it could be better with Yanukovych. As for that villa, Aron is right, it's private, not presidential residention, and my feeling is you are wrong if you think you can find something similar in democratic countries, obviously it could be in Russia, but not Poland or Lithuania, not that much. Cmon, furniture for 300000 euro. The house is estimated as more than 1 billion UAH. We don't have a lot people in Ukraine who have such money, and how many of them are politicians? And how many of them are that crazy to have such a house?
@Orzie
Dear Orzie, do you know where Angela Merkel lives? You maybe want to compare Ukraine to Russia, but I don't. Yanukovych has built the house for stolen money. Fact. Do you want to justify him somehow?
As for troops, the main difference is when we protested, we didn't want to join western Ukraine to Poland, like they now want to join the eastern Ukraine to Russia. It's crime against Ukraine, see the difference?
@Fauch and others
If you think, that I' m blindly support the new government, that's not true. I am not even going to vote for polls leaders in the first stage of presidential elections. But I am open-minded, so if you think some of the actions by new government are wrong, you can say 1), 2), 3)... I am pretty sure I will agree to some of them, but that is ridiculous to expect a miracle right now, as if they could do nothing, and economy will fix itself somehow. Not now.
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 04:53 AM |
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>Dear Orzie, do you know where Angela Merkel lives? You maybe want to compare Ukraine to Russia, but I don't. Yanukovych has built the house for stolen money. Fact. Do you want to justify him somehow?
I keep telling you about every politician's house built for stolen money. You don't listen.
I try to make you understand that Yanukovitch is no more and no less thief than the others, but for some reason you tell us only one surname you consider the public enemy. Think about that. You sound like a man who is strongly influenced by propaganda.
Have you ever wondered about approximate wealth of your city mayor? I'd recommend you to do that, and compare it with his official salary.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted April 10, 2014 07:14 AM |
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Orzie said:
Non-Russians love to shout about 'ethnic cleansing' made by tyrant Stalin while disregarding the fact that every 3rd Russian is Tatar or has Tatar relatives. Just look at their faces, the hair. The surnames.
There is no such ethnicity as 'Russian'.
QFT. and not only russians. polaks and Lithuanians as well. my own last name is of Tatar origins.
also, why not compare Ukraine to Russia? both are slavic nations, both are snowed by their goverment and are in fact ruled by the oligarchy.
The sooner all those revolutionaries will realise that they been screwed over yet again, the better.
I bet that Tymoshenko stole much more money than Yanukovych.but that doesn't make him any better.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 08:24 AM |
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I mentioned Angela Merkel because she lives in an apartment, not a giant house. So there are politicians, who don't build houses for stolen money. Claiming that everybody is the same without proving is your personal belief, not universal truth. That is more common in democratic countries, so that is why I don't want to compare to Russia, we do not want to move to that direction. Finally, you mentioned my mayor, not I. Go and prove that he is the same as Yanukovych, without that it is just random guess. His name is Andriy Sadovyi, if that helps, I would only say that he is pretty popular among people here for his actions on the post of mayor. He is currently on second term of being mayor, and it is not a surprise to come across him and see how he walks with kids. He is not hiding behind 7m high fence, like you know the other guy we were talking about.
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 08:30 AM |
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Edited by Orzie at 08:32, 10 Apr 2014.
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They are just more clever to hide their money, because it saves their political face. Do you think they eat in mess halls? Yanukovitch is an idiot, but there is no proof that he is the only one thief to speak about.
And yes, there's no surprise when a president of a country has a villa. He's the president, after all. Presidents who live on salary are extremely rare, and they originate from poor countries like some in South America. Don't you want to go to live in South America, with almost no infrastructure? They do have honest presidents, yeah.
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted April 10, 2014 08:38 AM |
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[quote name=ihor
As for troops, the main difference is when we protested, we didn't want to join western Ukraine to Poland, like they now want to join the eastern Ukraine to Russia. It's crime against Ukraine, see the difference?
That is the very good point. The events that we are seeing now is nothing but a continuation of what happened in the Crimea.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 10, 2014 09:04 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:19, 10 Apr 2014.
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Quote:
As for troops, the main difference is when we protested, we didn't want to join western Ukraine to Poland, like they now want to join the eastern Ukraine to Russia. It's crime against Ukraine, see the difference?
That's bit of a moot point because actually the protests in Kiev sparked the events in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Even if you think that the Donetsk or Harkov events are orchestrated by Russia, you have to agree that Yanukovych was not ousted in a way that is considered acceptable for all people in Ukraine. It's not that different really. I guess the majority of the Russian-speakers consider the interim government an illegitimate coup d'etat band which will deliberately work against their interests and may even try to oppress them just as the government and their supporters consider the people in Donetsk Russian-provoked separatists.
Edit: thanks to artu for pointing where the "Delete" box is, never noticed.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 10, 2014 09:17 AM |
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You can delete your own posts. Just click edit and look at upper-left corner.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 10:07 AM |
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@Orzie
You continue spreading your insinuations without any facts. You ignored the fact that Merkel doesn't live in a villa, her position is equal to president. You also ignore the fact that other presidents in democratic countries live in state residences, that will go to another president after the elections. Private house built for stolen money is very different thing.
And as for mess halls, I personally saw some pictures on the internet of our mayor having a dinner in one of our local pubs. Not a mess hall, but still a place where regular people here gather and have fun.
@Zenofex
I would agreed with you if they protested for government change or to include the people they trust into the government, but cmon they are against the elections! That is the only logical move to regain fully legal government. And they want to separate, it doesn't matter what pushes them, they must find another way to be heared, not demand separation.
FYI, by the poll a month ago 90% of Ukrainians said they don't think Yanukovych is a legitimate president. I think this number is even more now.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 10, 2014 10:24 AM |
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Poll on delicate political issues should always be taken with a grain of salt. It's fairly obvious that few people had any love for Yanukovych but it's also fairly obvious that not all people like the new government. Instead of sending armed forces to silence them and thus reinforce Russia's position that there are double standards about the crisis depending on whether the protesters are pro-Western or pro-Russian, the guys in Kiev should send e message that they are ready to accept the Eastern regions as equal in the upcoming elections and are ready to negotiate with them fairly. The message so far is "stay put or you'll be considered traitors and treated as such". Instead, banning the Right Sector and putting Tymoshenko back in jail (very unlikely) or at least out of the public will help a lot, for starters.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 11:05 AM |
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@Zenofex
Ukraine already waited and did nothing in Crimea, you know the result. Sending armed forces is the right decision, in my opinion. And actually the new government sent a message saying:
1) The separatists who give away guns will not be arrested.
2) The course for decentralization is declared, so every region will have more possibilities to manage taxes and local questions.
Appears fair enough.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted April 10, 2014 11:52 AM |
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ihor said:
1) The separatists who give away guns will not be arrested.
heard that one before.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 03:00 PM |
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Edited by Orzie at 15:04, 10 Apr 2014.
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@Ihor
>You continue spreading your insinuations without any facts. You ignored the fact that Merkel doesn't live in a villa, her position is equal to president. You also ignore the fact that other presidents in democratic countries live in state residences, that will go to another president after the elections. Private house built for stolen money is very different thing.
And as for mess halls, I personally saw some pictures on the internet of our mayor having a dinner in one of our local pubs. Not a mess hall, but still a place where regular people here gather and have fun.
Come on. You really sound like you have seen an oligarch the first time. Your discussion about Yanukovitch sounds exactly like that. Lol, you even resent about the 7m tall fence on the president's villa. In Russia it's so common that we don't even pay attention to that, and to the fact that the children of these people ride on Porsches Cayenne when they go to the university.
And yes, I have no doubt that every person who is in charge of a big country has his/hers own secrets. Everything you see on TV or whenever is a PR act, and nothing more. Post-Soviet oligarchs are just okay with their way of living showing their wealth to everyone. European and US politicians and celebrities are more careful with that. It's a 'more professional' style, but still you cannot deny that these people are for money.
Good politicians don't get to ruling posts.
ihor said:
1) The separatists who give away guns will not be arrested.
So what can do the people who don't have guns at all? There are the ultimate majority of them. 
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted April 10, 2014 03:09 PM |
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Orzie said:
In Russia it's so common that we don't even pay attention to that,
That is the difference to the West where even a breath of suspicion about corruption can destroy politician's career.
BTW I' ve heard that some people pay for such posts like yours.
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 03:16 PM |
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Edited by Orzie at 15:19, 10 Apr 2014.
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Facepalm.
Ukraine is not the West. It's a post-soviet country. Feel the difference.
And yes, would you like to pay me for I can praise Poland? It was a great kingdom once in a time... in the past.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2014 03:17 PM |
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Edited by Aron at 15:22, 10 Apr 2014.
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Excellent video explaining Greed gone full retard.
Check this video out We've mentioned most of this in the thread already but its a good summary. I like how the head political professor of the North-West University concludes that the IMF is "stupid".
Not stupid as in evil, bad, greedy, etc. But as the commentator explains: plain stupid.
Either someone has a really good in-depth geopolitical strategy going here which I, the professor and the videomaker can't see or they are actually stupid.
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted April 10, 2014 03:22 PM |
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Orzie said:
Facepalm.
Ukraine is not the West. It's a post-soviet country. Feel the difference.
And yes, would you like to pay me for I can praise Poland? It was a great kingdom once in a time... in the past.
1) I didn't say Ukraine is West.
2) Of course. What is your price?
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This thread is pages long: 
