|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted May 21, 2014 01:03 AM |
|
Edited by xerox at 01:21, 21 May 2014.
|
Sexuality
I've recently come to some mind-blowing conclusions. Right now, the human genome is being mapped. Yet, so far, there hasn't been any evidence whatsover of sexuality being genetic. Untill there is biological evidence, I've realized that it makes most sense to assume that sexuality is entirely socially constructed. This means that nobody is born heterosexual or homosexual. We're all more or less bisexual, with some different preferences that are not related to gender per se, but attributes that we might associate with a specific gender. Like personally, I love well-defined muscles and cheek bones. That's generally associated with men and is part of the reason why I've identified as gay.
So why do pretty much everybody consider themselves heterosexual?
Let me first make the statement that reproduction is not a natural instinct, atleast not for humans. We all have a need to eat, we all feel fear, stress et cetera. Those apply to all humans. Reproducing does not apply to all humans. There are plenty of fertile people considering themselves to be heterosexual, that choose not to reproduce. If reproduction was an instinct, we would all try to do it. Rather than being a biological instinct, reproduction is a social need. Society can not endure without reproduction.
Not long ago, we didn't have access to large-scale immigration, insemination, adoption or surrogacy. The only effective way of reproducing, which happened to be the only way for societies to survive, was traditional babymaking between a man and woman. Reproduction between the opposing sexes is the origin of heteronormativity. So far, our societies have depended on it which is why it is so hard-coded in us. Because they have been so vital for our survival, these set of norms are so strong. It is why the vast majority consider themselves to be born heterosexual, when there's no proof that this is the case.
What do you think about sexuality?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 01:33 AM |
|
|
Quote:
So why do pretty much everybody consider themselves heterosexual?
Because people born with penises coincidentally overwhelmingly prefer boobs to muscles and people born with boobs coincidentally overwhelmingly prefer muscles to boobs.
I'm not really sure why some gay people feel the need to explain to me how gay I am. When I tell people how gay they are in LoL, they report me.
Now, I read the random thoughts topic and saw you tell MVass he's in denial for believing he's straight, and how sexuality is not hard coded. What's your opinion of a parent in denial of his son's homosexuality, that says it's just a phase, it's a delusion, or a teen rebellion, or an outside influence caused by pride parades and mass media?
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 01:37 AM |
|
|
Baklava said:
people born with boobs coincidentally overwhelmingly prefer muscles to boobs.
What? No way!
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:07 AM |
|
|
I'm not sure what the biology of it is (I suspect sexuality is partially environmental and partially genetic, but I don't know), but it would be strange if heterosexuality weren't biological, if you consider its evolutionary benefits.
Reproduction as such need not be a natural instinct - the drive to have sex is, and without contraception that's all it takes. Nevertheless, some people feel an additional urge to reproduce that's separate from the urge to have sex, though I don't know to what extent that's biological and to what extent it's the result of social norms.
As for feeling heterosexual or homosexual, sufficient introspection should reveal that. Some people (like my girlfriend) question their sexualities and realize that they're bi or gay, others (like me) question their sexualities and realize that they were correct in their initial assumption that they're straight.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:20 AM |
|
|
What do I think about sexuality Xerox.
Not much to be honest. Because I don't really care. However, what I do know and have known since I was a little girl, was that I am heterosexual. No I am not confused, so don't even go there. I have never been attracted to another woman in my life.
If I was into women it would never have been a problem anyway. Not with family or friends.
And please, please do not start making comments that somehow others or my childhood have been surreptitiously heteronormalised. You know nothing of my upbringing or my families values. All you need to know is that I know damn well what my sexuality is and I don't find it funny when someone who has jumped on the 'current Zeitgist' telling me otherwise.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:35 AM |
|
|
xerox said:
If reproduction was an instinct, we would all try to do it. Rather than being a biological instinct, reproduction is a social need. Society can not endure without reproduction.
And biological species CAN endure without reproduction??? Besides, by your logic, if trying to stay alive was an instinct, nobody would ever commit suicide...
This is just self-deception because you are looking at it as a solitarily political/social construct issue while it's not. Reading this may help:
I dont want to be right.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:51 AM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
No way!
Way!
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:53 AM |
|
|
meroe said:
You know nothing of my upbringing or my families values.
We know that you were raised Catholic and that your mother slapped you for asking what anal sex is. That's something.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:55 AM |
|
|
So ... what??? What me being brought up Catholic means what that I don't know my own sexuality?? Or my own mind?? Or that I am automatically going to grow into my mother???
No, so yeah its irrelevant.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 02:56 AM |
|
|
We know you've a mustache. Now tell me that ain't relevant.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:07 AM |
|
|
meroe said:
So ... what??? What me being brought up Catholic means what that I don't know my own sexuality?? Or my own mind?? Or that I am automatically going to grow into my mother???
I didn't say any of those things. Merely that we do know something about how you were raised.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:13 AM |
|
|
Yeah which has nothing to do with heteronormativity, or Xerox's thread 
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:17 AM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 03:20, 21 May 2014.
|
Xerox said:
Corribus, I am not aware of any evidence regarding the biologic nature of sexuality. While there's probably biologic factors to love and attraction (since we can feel those), I doubt that they are gender-specific. I think it's more likely that we're both biologically and socially attracted to some attributes, which are generally associated with a specific gender.
Isn't that more or less what sexuality is?
Let's put it this way. Suppose you take 10 males who identify as homosexuals and 10 males who identify as heterosexual. You show each of these 20 individuals 50 pictures of naked, physically fit males and 50 pictures of naked, physically fit females. While you are showing them these pictures, you record their brain activity in the area of the brain which controls sexual excitement. You do not think there will be a statistically significant difference in the photos to which the homosexuals and heterosexuals respond? If there is, then there's your biological basis for sexuality. Of course, that says nothing about what causes the biological basis, but it does establish that it is there. You don't really need a sophisticated experiment like this, of course (though I imagine some variation of it has been done, and I shall search for it tomorrow). As a male who identifies as a heterosexual, I can assure you my neurons responsible for sexual excitement fire when I see a picture of a naked female, and they remain dormant when I see a picture of a naked male.
I think it's pretty likely there is evidence to support a biological basis for sexuality. Cause for that basis is a more difficult problem - and because I'm interested in what's been done on the topic of the biological basis of sexuality, I will take a brief look at it tomorrow. I could easily hand-wave an evolutionary explanation for a genetic basis for the dominance of heterosexuality (although if it is genetic, it certainly is related to many genes). There are plenty of examples in nature on sexual traits, sexual attraction, and so forth that are related to evolving genes (birds have been particularly well studied), and there's no reason to suspect humans would be different. In eras where natural selection was very important for humans, genes for overt homosexuality would have been probably strongly selected against, because homosexuals do not reproduce. Maybe some argument could be made for passing along of genes that support strong interrelationships, no matter mutual gender, so maybe some "homosexual genes" persisted in the background, but certainly heterosexual genes would have been favored in a general sense. Genes that lead to big breasts and penises (and attraction to them) are easy to explain in this way. Then again, humans are somewhat unique among primates in that we do not advertise our sexual readiness - e.g., human females hide their ovulation cycles. A lot has been written on this topic and how it relates to human sociology. In this day and age, where natural selection is not so important, homosexual genes have an environment where they can thrive. Maybe this partially explains recent proliferation of homosexual phenotypes.. although I suspect most of the acceleration is related to societal acceptance.
That's all complete speculation of course, but there it is. I'll look for what the evolutionary biologists say about the topic tomorrow.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:23 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 04:05, 21 May 2014.
|
@meroe
Well, being raised as a Catholic has something to do with heteronormativity. I mean, I'm not suggesting that all Catholics think exactly the same about the subject but if someone specifically defines her upbringing as Catholic, it is quite reasonable to assume her parents probably didn't support the idea that being gay was perfectly acceptable and as normal as being heterosexual.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:37 AM |
|
|
No my mom and dad were fine with homosexuality. They understood what the church teachings were and they had their own. Lots of Catholic's don't have any issue with homosexuality. Because despite the religious upbringing they leave it to individuals to make their own decisions about what they do with their life.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:40 AM |
|
|
Whatever their views were in other areas, they involved slapping you for asking them about anal sex.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:40 AM |
|
|
I agree. If Meroe's mom and dad are homo for each others, it's their business and no one elses!
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 03:43 AM |
|
|
Yeah I get you Mvass, but its really a different subject. Maybe a topic for another time. Bad parenting. But bad parents don't necessarily mean homophobic.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 09:31 AM |
|
|
Xerox is embarrassing himself sooo nicely.  I don't even have to do anything.
AND. Sexuality is not coded in your genes. This is a popular myth used mostly by homosexuals to excuse their CHOICE. I've read extensively about it and whatever scientific studies claimed to prove it have been refuted. One example, iirc, was a study which reported to have found the gay gene and was heavily used by gay activists as propaganda. Only thing is that it didn't work when the tests were reproduced, the results didn't follow. And the guy in charge of the project was a heavy supporter of lgbt. That's off the top of my head.
Even if you think it from an evolutionary perspective it doesn't add up. Why in the world would a creatures genes not allow it to reproduce? You either have to accept that natural selection fukced up royal, or rethink your gay gene argument.
Also, Cor, the brain response can not be used as an argument. Because firstly that's an EFFECT, not a cause, and secondly excitement can be achieved in many other ways, not just by arousal. Intense gaming for example produces the same results.
Ultimately, I personally think that today's sexuality has been deeply affected by Christianity. In the times of Jesus the view on homosexuality as being wrong was inexistent in Europe. Even the emperor of the romans was a homosexual, and a lot of the SPQR members were homosexuals too. Later on, as his teaching have been adopted, there was a pressure to eliminate that behavior.
Bored you ppl enough.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2014 10:09 AM |
|
|
Is this the new nonsense thread?
Let's think a bit: is there ANY reason why a person should CHOOSE to change gender? I mean, choose because of being a drama queen or something. Not choose as in not being able
Is there also any reason why people should CHOOSE to break laws and risk hard penalties when they could have so much fun legally.
But - main question: if it WAS a matter of choice, what OTHER choice could there be than being BI, for heaven's sake? DOUBLING the amount of available sex partners? Yes, PLEASE, thank you very much.
Also, there is a statistical evidence: it would seem that the probability to become gay increases with the number of older brethren you have - which looks like a method to limit the amount of similar material in the gene pool.
We have also gay behavior with ANIMALS; is there any reason for ANIMALS to CHOOSE being gay?
Jumping to conclusions, are we?
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 1 
