|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted January 31, 2017 02:22 PM |
|
|
Whatever you want to say, do NOT quote obscure youtube videos - I don't watch them.
Cite serious newspapers, like UK's Guardian, the New York Times, the Washington Post ...
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 03:35 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
Whatever you want to say, do NOT quote obscure youtube videos - I don't watch them.
Cite serious newspapers, like UK's Guardian, the New York Times, the Washington Post ...
Now I understand why you are so mislead and angry all the time.
Two things JJ and forget those papers for a second and think about one thing.
When Obama was ELECTED and in office 8 years and his pal Hilary was blowing new places in the middle-east to bits and Drones were striking all over the place...where were these SAME people marching?, burning? Or the RIGHT and yelling not my Prez? Where was the Right?
No where...no one said much and your MEDIA was his lap-dog.
You'd have to go back to occupy WS or the protest against the G8 but no where do you find the bulldung you see today.
Trump is in office what 33 seconds and this "Real "deplorable-rabble" are yelling, marching, burning and people that look or say they support Trump are mugged and beaten for voting THEIR PERFECT LEADER OUT?!
Little kids carrying pussy-signs for their radicalized brainwashed parents following a woman with ties to radical Islam and pushing for Sharia law? As if it has not already taken root here?
Yet Trump is Hitler, I am Nazi, Trump is Racist, white-people are Racist and have to shut-up!
Horsedung...wake the hell up...these people spouting YOUR news today are the Nazis and Racists but Trump has agreed to be interviewed by the Mexican-owned NYT and the (just watched) snotty ABC.
Questionable news my arse. You dine on nothing but and because you will not get out of your tiny-box and take advantage of what real-news the internet can bring to you, due to your own cemented-dyed-in-the-wool-bias.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:02 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 16:16, 31 Jan 2017.
|
EXECUTIVE ORDER: PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES
link
After, hearing all the whohaw, I read the document. I recommend folks read the actual document above.
In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.
So much for the never-ending war-chant that Trump is against women and gays.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:17 PM |
|
|
markkur said:
Questionable news my arse. You dine on nothing but and because you will not get out of your tiny-box and take advantage of what real-news the internet can bring to you, due to your own cemented-dyed-in-the-wool-bias.
You mean "real news" like those touted here?
When did you put the tinfoil hat on - as are some of the other guys here have done as well? If you believe a guy like Trump is going to change the oligarchic structures in the US, you are dreaming. Look at the people at his side, look at people like Myron Ebell or Stephen Bannon, look at the way, how "fake news" have taken on a whole new dimension with them, look at the way they are bungling their way through the business of governing.
I mean, we are talking the United States of frigging America here, not some banana republic in some backwater part of the globe. The worls is already laughing, you are losing respect, and even the good ole Terminator himself, a stout Republican, how silly they make the US look.
And you want to tell ME about "real news"?
EDIT: Oh, I see you quoted part of the propaganda part of the executive order. And you seem to take this nonsense seriously. Oh, dear.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:21 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
And you want to tell ME about "real news"?
Absolutely.
And for sake of something constructive, read Trump's Executive order and then we can actually debate something. That is Real news from the SOURCE and not a bought and paid-for op-ed.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:22 PM |
|
|
|
I read it - it's a mix of bullcrap propaganda and legally grey and unclear orders, resulting in chaos.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
JJ EDIT: Oh, I see you quoted part of the propaganda part of the executive order. And you seem to take this nonsense seriously. Oh, dear.
The Shadow Government is something to take seriously, I've been railing about it for years JJ...I live HERE.
But you guys that only read the media-drivel and come blasting your way into this thread on American politics and think everything you vent about, is some sort of golden-truth and if anyone disagrees with you they wear a...tin hat. I will refrain such behavior.
I tell you what, Pick a topic regarding "Trumps recent actions" that you are incensed about and we will have a grand-debate...any time.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:31 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
Whatever you want to say, do NOT quote obscure youtube videos - I don't watch them.
Cite serious newspapers, like UK's Guardian, the New York Times, the Washington Post ...
to be honest mate it's why I said for years it's not really worth time to post other than jokes or funny wind ups in HC political threads these days,
although I really respect most of the people who post on the threads, the political discussion here really deteriorated in quality and isn't actually founded in evidence as it used to be few years ago, it doesn't really have any more cohesion or currency than Facebook or YouTube comments lol
aside the odd evidence appreciating poster you will usually get some views ranging from sort of healthy but still quite tinfoil hatty, to very bizarre/extreme mental gymnastics and cringefully, painfully non-self aware views, to outright cultists rambling in an own reality, (won't name names,)
but very often with a common theme that all news agencies all over the world bringing a half reputable track record are the nasty establishment propaganda and must not be looked at, while actual propaganda should, or even things which are completely obvious and clear facts do not exist if it screws a narrative, basically a bit of an absurd choose your own facts buffet lol
thus I would use this site for Heroes or a joke site and go to another site to talk proper politics lol
____________
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:34 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
I read it - it's a mix of bullcrap propaganda and legally grey and unclear orders, resulting in chaos.
Wow what a speed-reader you are.
"Bullcrap-propaganda" is no argument tell me how?
"legally grey and unclear orders" good grief man it's politics and you do know that much of what Trump is acting on "was already in place"? under Obama?
"resulting in chaos"
No, you are "making chaos"
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:42 PM |
|
|
verriker said:
but very often with a common theme that all news agencies all over the world bringing a half reputable track record are the nasty establishment propaganda
Do you listen to Pilger? Because he and a few remaining "actual" Investigative journalists have reported time and time again that modern news is terribly skewed. But, no doubt you LOL that off.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:42 PM |
|
|
Mainstream media can be looking the other way sometimes and their perspective can, of course, be politically biased or interlinked in many cases, it's good to search for alternative sources such as independent investigative journalists, not so mainstream alternative media sources etc, which would still have editorial culpability and a reputation to protect.
Some of the "alternative sources" here are plain crap and in terms of seriousness or professionalism, not much different than conspiracy guys proving "demolition theory" in their backyards despite the global consensus of civil engineering or chemistry academics. So, yes, "obscure Youtube videos" are mostly a waste of your time and even though every once in a while you can come along somebody interesting and educated about their opinion, you have to dig through ten times the amount of cherry-pickings, so called analyisis that aren't even logically consistent, plain xenophobia claiming not to be xenophobia, out of context statistics, semi-factual quotes etc... When it's text, one can at least do a quick read to evaluate, videos are mostly unbearable.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:46 PM |
|
|
artu said:
Mainstream media can be looking the other way sometimes and their perspective can, of course, be politically biased or interlinked in many cases, it's good to search for alternative sources such as independent investigative journalists, not so mainstream alternative media sources etc, which would still have editorial culpability and a reputation to protect.
Some of the "alternative sources" here are plain crap
Which?
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 04:53 PM |
|
|
I was referring to the general tendency, haven't watched the videos in the last few pages yet. But the objection from JJ is a general one to begin with, he openly says he didn't watch the last video, so it's not about just that.
Btw, when I watch them you tell me not to criticize them in so many paragraphs anyway. 
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 05:08 PM |
|
|
markkur said:
"legally grey and unclear orders" good grief man it's politics and you do know that much of what Trump is acting on "was already in place"? under Obama?
It's what the Acting Attorney General said and SHE should know, because it's her job to know, when something is too vague or even too legally doubful to be enacted.
It's also interesting that basically no-one was informed - a hip-shot, and a bad one.
I'm sure you'll tell me that the AAG was an Obama woman and just tried to throw stones or whatever to make a noise - but, see, the guy who'll become her successor has been questioning her in 2015 and even asked that particular question, and she made no secret about the fact that she would ALWAYS look at whether things would be in line with the law and the constitution, even if something came from the president - and Sessions ENCOURAGED her.
Yates' career is spotless. She wouldn't say the things she did not without VERY good reason - and she's backed by some Republicans and the rest of the world.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 05:14 PM |
|
|
Basically any source is propaganda, which is why people can't just read only one and consider themselves self-aware. Be it either the official one from the state or the alternative from investigating journalism. It is important to see both sides, otherwise you can't have a solid political opinion. Even educational channel ARTE showed a documentary named "All governments lie", so this is not only reduced to youtube conspiracy...
Yes there is loads of bull on the net, but at least you can sort it out, relate, cogitate about, the mainstream medias just tell you how to think...
JJ I invite you to read this article from Consortium News, a source I personally consider to be serious. This is not the kind of article you will see in NYT or WP, or maybe on page 24 in the small bottom left column, after you already digested the hardly objective headline.
____________
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 05:45 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 17:45, 31 Jan 2017.
|
artu said:
Btw, when I watch them you tell me not to criticize them in so many paragraphs anyway.
I am glad you put a laugh with that. Even if I chastise no one for their beliefs. I don't call people tin-hat wearers nor misunderstand their passion...I have my own. However I do want a decent debate and the one sided rhetoric that has dominated the world stage for a decade now.
@JJ Ok. It would take too long and I have not the health to explain why an appointee in a Government (what you already know) may have been put there, NOT because of expertise but "compliance"...on your side of the aisle. You can easily spot them on mine. But, I know they exist on both sides of all issues today. Money rules the world not the interest of the masses. Trump is definitely an unknown quantity but the guy has been in office 11 days?!
More and more Americans today are seeing the words "civil war". I think that is bollocks and either one or both "divides" are being very dangerous and unthinking when boldly forecasting a future of destruction. That doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. Emotion and Propaganda is driving all sides today and I am not hopeful regarding America's future. I know the answer for our disunity but I have to keep that to myself in this lovely world today.
Btw Artu and JJ, I would love to see both of you explain your own nations. (say the turmoil in Germany and the situation in Turkey) I would enjoy seeing that just once. What about your own Nations? Surely U.S. politics is not all that matters today? At least I hope not. I truly would love to see these issues addressed in many other nations around the globe because I have never been blind that there is a world outside this nation.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 05:57 PM |
|
|
Well, I have discussed and even opened threads about the political climate in Turkey more than "just once" so, that's that. But of course, in an international forum, U.S. politics will be a matter of debate much more frequently than Turkey's or Germany's (which is mostly debated in EU threads) because U.S. politics has a wider global impact, not to mention, most people won't be able to participate in a conversation about other countries anyway because they will not have information in detail about them.
When most films in the movie thread or songs in the music thread are from U.S., you don't seem to complain about this global impact, right? Why should politics be any different.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 06:13 PM |
|
|
Thought I would attempt at injecting some kindness into this hot-thread by making a quick post about my Politics.
You know how I detest Denominations?...I see Politics the very same. I see the "labels" that are supposed to represent people as tools of division to be used to gain-power and they are inside all of man's institutions.
I have not been political for many long years and I voted this year for one reason...this nation IS being destroyed.
Do I think Trump is God and can save it?...NO. But it was clear to me that after Bush/Clinton/Bush and Obama's 8 years and with another Clinton in-line also supported by the Media, all Global American Corporations, the Military-Industrial-Complex and an existing legal system that could not act? We needed change...any change.
I said I would vote for Prez the Pillsbury dough-boy and meant it.
Now that Trump is in and President. The actions of the Left (which is NOT the left) proves it was not a mistake of mine to vote-out the madness that has been underway. I'm not speaking only about here in the States but what this country has been doing around the world for decades now! and during that time, the people of this nation have shut-off all "their" responsibility for the actions of this nation.
My morality does not derive from any sort of earthly Government...it can't. And my politics today are about listening to all medias and sifting through the rhetoric. It is true that the Internet is an iffy place to go but that does not mean I want it clamped and controlled just like what happened to the American media that at one time was "mostly" trustworthy. When news becomes Corporate owned, truth will always suffer. When news becomes State-owned (like in WWII Governments around the world)Truth perishes completely.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 06:30 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 18:35, 31 Jan 2017.
|
markkur said:
We needed change...any change.
You see, that "any" is the dangerous part and it's this kind of desperate political climates that give rise to populist demagogues. (Ask JJ, a German would know.) Do you think, it was much different here back in the early 2000's, the official ideology and the rhetoric of the state was stuck, people from all backgrounds, leftists, liberals, muslims, Kurds... they were all feeling entrapped by the then unquestionable status quo. In such a political wasteland, an economic crisis and many people losing all their life investments was just the perfect opportunity for Erdogan. You want to learn more about what's happening elsewhere, here's an article about why the story of Trump seems so familiar to me:
If you want to see America s future, look at Turkey by Liz Cookman
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 31, 2017 06:35 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 18:38, 31 Jan 2017.
|
artu said:
When most films in the movie thread or songs in the music thread are from U.S., you don't seem to complain about this global impact, right? Why should politics be any different.
 I can't now can I?
Artu, I traveled around the world and wherever I went, out of consideration for the ground I now trod, I learned some Language of that Nation to show my respect. i.e. I was often told of the cliche' of a rude-Frenchmen. But what I knew at once...was that it was the demanding, high and mighty Americans that were typically the most rude.
I'll share a true encounter about International-Diplomacy.
I visited England in the early 80s. I absolutely avoided tourist-traps in ANY nation, so I did my usual bit and went out into the countryside; in this case, iirc...between London and Bristol.
I was sitting in a small pub called the spotted-cow and drinking a Stout (an old lady told me it was a "meal")after first having a Bitters.
There were two young women working the bar and I was sitting alone at that bar, with the exception of an very old Englishman. He looked a lot like Winston.
When those young ladies heard my Missouri-drawl they became very talkative and peppered me with questions about living in the States and most questions were about California.
These two women were both in some sort of dreamy-state about California and honestly that annoyed me to some degree. I was not rude in any fashion, nor angry...just a wee bit dismayed with their "rave" about wanting to live there.
Omitting some of our conversation I said; "Forgive me but it seems to me you don't see what you have around you." They cooled towards me.
One said; "What's around us?"
I answered; "I am enthralled by the beauty of the countryside just outside and I have not a quaint little spot like this, to go have an ale. Further, you have an incredible history and it's all over the place to visit and learn about. In the States, we hardly have any of what you have here. California has it landscape sure and little more."
Winston said to me' "Well done young man" and paid for my drinks.
|
| |
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
