|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
posted February 01, 2017 03:28 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
Gambling on Trump might be worth the experiment when the country in question was, say, Belgium. In the US of A, though?
JJ, I do not expect you to listen to me but this nation was taken and gutted in the name of "supposed" Globalization that was nothing more than propaganda behind the ultra-rich banding together and creating for themselves power and wealth beyond their wildest dreams. Instead of using and abusing "a nation" as in the past, they created a golden-calf of "many nations" and all under the umbrella of caring for people of said nations. China should never have been brought into the WTO until its people were free. But the Western Elite did not care a flip about Chinese workers, just like they have not cared about workers anywhere. Watch Pilger's report on Indonesia, from YEARS back, since that nation is never in the news, like many others.
How was this fueled? The good ol' US of A.(in large part) Look at our damned debt. 14-? trillion dollars? Our Government fleeced our people every which way the last few decades.
Social security gutted. Savings destroyed, replaced by a <ahem> housing bubble that followed on the heels of the dotcom bubble. The Savings and loan scam and now the Clinton Foundation. Workers HAVING to <ahem> "invest in the gambling-hall called Wall-Street" and that greed-machine governed by Electronics serving the wealthy. On and on and on, the power-elites leading multi-national companies have stolen land from around the world Mexico and India to name two and driven people into cities to work for next to nothing.
They have eliminated competition here. We pretty much have one store to shop Wal-Mart...unless of course you can afford to wipe your bum with money.
Something HAD to be done.
Germany protected its own economy as had all the world...except the USA. Should not that ring some warning bells for even the average thinker?
JollyJoker said:
The US will get a lot more than they bargained for with the Trump "gamble".
There is no doubt about that but what I'm sure is not on your radar screen is that something may be forced in order to keep order and the source "of that reason" will come from outside and not inside this time.
I'll make a prediction; if the USA cannot survive under its Constitution and this nation turn around and be a good nation for the world again? - Germany and the EU will have a very slim chance.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 03:56 PM |
|
|
Markkur, your answer isn't really addressing the point about the American voters shooting themselves in the foot by cementing a two-party system even in an election where those two parties come up with the most unlikable candidates imaginable.
Quote:
Something HAD to be done.
Voting TRUMP? THAT is supposed to change things for the better? In your dreams.
This isn't exactly a reassuring impression.
This is exactly conveying my feelings when I read the White House Statement.
And This shows that even a sizable part of the REPUBLICAN
S in pertinent office have a problem with Trump's Exec Order.
Ah, and before I forget it, we, Germany, that is, is the enemy, when it comes to trade, because Trump admin says that Germany actively keeps the Euro exchange rate low (we cannot do that) in order to export so much, costing jobs in the US. Total crap, because for one thing it's not our fault, when people all over the world do not want to buy US cars, if they can get a Mercedes or Beemer or Porsche (or a Lexus), second, our manufacturers DO make things in the US. For example, BMW's Spartanburg manufacturing plant in SC is BMW's worldwide biggest production plant. In fact, it's the ONLY plant where the BMW SUVs are manufactured (and exported into the whole world, including Germany), so that tarriff idea is completely off, simply because the economy doesn't operate on a nationwide scale anymore.
|
|
violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 04:06 PM |
|
|
The majority of voters didn't vote to put Trump in office, they voted to keep Hillary out!
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 04:15 PM |
|
|
Which means, they fell for Trump's campaign strategy.
I mean, think about who you'd want as your solicitor to fight for your interests at court. You want someone TOUGH who is able to stand up for you when the going gets tougher.
Same in politics, because you wouldn't even bother to vote if you didn't think that a politician and especially the Pres is somehow the representant of your interests. Between the various interests of corps, other countries, party comrades, people you own something and the general pop you want someone TOUGH who isn't backing away at the slightest problem, a real PRO in dealing with this, and, if necessary a mean b!tch who can take a lot.
Which means, the choice is between Hillary and one of the two other candidates, but Trump is worse than Hillary in each and every respect when it comes to qualification for the office.
Also, Trump's TEAM is less than appealing.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 04:54 PM |
|
|
Its funny, I clicked on that Washington post and again more baseless, unsubstantiated and meaningless news from the very biased left.
The title says "leaks from the white house depicts Trump as a clueless child". Of course, not a single source is given, so I had to search by my own until timesofisrael site, where finally is reported that the so famous leaks are anonymous (how convenient) and they come from a report in new york times in which, I quote: "dozens of aides, supporters and advisers were interviewed anonymously".
Note that this last article is from November 6 2016, note also that aides, advisers and "supporters" are considered together, which means they could make their thing by interviewing me, for example. 
I read the whole article, no track of any interview, no one is mentioned, but again, tons of biased appreciations from a precisely different political agenda. The "journalist" offers his vision, then somehow, 3 articles later, it becomes "leaks from inside white house". In November 2016 Trump was NOT in the white house, people.
Serious news, my foot.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 05:01 PM |
|
|
exactly. thanks for clearing that up, sal. 
|
|
violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 05:25 PM |
|
|
You may have seen a different result had Bernie been in for the standing! I will do exactly what I did before Trump was elected, I will wake up and go to work, I will come home, hangout with friends, and whatever other hobbies to pass time.
Let the man do his thing, who knows what will happen, the answer to that is no one. Make assumptions, go do marches, sink everyday into wondering what will happen or not happen. For me I will just do exactly what I have always done through every election, I will just continue on.
He will make poor decisions and some beneficial ones. Can't fail without trying, can't succeed without failing.
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 05:27 PM |
|
|
Guys - it's a BLOG.
Also - there are of course leaks from the White House, have always been. You want to claim there are no "leaks", no connections of staffers to the media (even semi-official ones in case the officials need to make something public unofficially).
Take, for example, this.
Anyway, in this case the Blog's point is, that Trump won't have any of this for long, considering his massive interest in his image.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 05:35 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
Markkur, your answer isn't really addressing the point about the American voters shooting themselves in the foot by cementing a two-party system even in an election where those two parties come up with the most unlikable candidates imaginable.
Quote:
Something HAD to be done.
Voting TRUMP? THAT is supposed to change things for the better? In your dreams.
JJ, we ARE on the same page...sorry I've not made that clear in a while, didn't think I needed to with my twice-now posting of my USA Election-Process Reform Amendment. (arrogant on my part maybe) I absolutely agree with you between American and European politics. though I "used to" prefer the Brit-model. However, as I have been saying since LONG before this election; simply..."This nation has been "captured", if you will, between ONLY two-parties that have been in bed together for a very, very long time.= 1 Party-hearty.
Let's look at what Trump faced, hate him all you want, in running for office. No one (except voters, supported him, no Corporations, the Military Industrial complex that sells lovely "products" around the world backed the Clintons and of course neither of our stinking parties wanted anyone but their own minions in office. As an aside to how bad this system is, right now; look at what happened with that 3rd party - she got her butt handed to her! and she then called for a recount??? Why? So she could collect millions. It's the moolah and Power man and our politics are not focused on the masses.
I voted for a man that had never held office in our "proven" corrupt government, that ran his own campaign and that's the big problem? I'll never agree with such thinking. <imo> For "a" change...ANY damn change it was better than nothing at all.
iirc You wanted us to put Hillary in and that would have became this. Bush Sr.- Clinton - Bush Jr. Obama and then Clinton.(Hilarious helped overturn even more ME countries- she said; "We came, we saw, he died" about Libya!) Where the hell was the World's outrage? That prez-list that many here at HC wanted to extend WAS "a long train of corruption and subversion impacting the entire globe", whether you agree or not. So now? You know, "Desperate times call for desperate measures" and could things be more desperate now? Don't forget for a second all that "Russia did it! coming from Trump's enemies" Not for a second friend. You know this; there are those that live and breath war...you see war is exciting as hell...especially when They are in control and do not have to be exposed to the damn horrors of war...beyond reading a "tech-generated report about Their Tech-army" in action.
To get to ideal politics again, we, not you, the American People MUST get money out of our election-process. As long as money is God and can dictate who runs, the people will remain doormats for the rich. And it may damn well be "already too late" to overturn that greedy-injustice.
It "could be" the only way to secure the Constitution again is by force and then afterwards establish a healthy political process, with wide-raging representation. However, I will NEVER think "force" is the answer while any vestige of "Constitutional voting" exists but that could be my age and morality ruling me. What's sadly amusing to me, is that I have heard many here say, how stone-age the 2nd Amendment is, but I ask how, can anyone overcome tyranny with sticks in the modern world?
Ftr, I am also very aware of another threat to our shared Western Civilization and I will call it "Corporate-Armies". And it looks like we will not shake the Blackwater-type interventions and control in the future, unless Trump does a complete about-face from the past administrations. I hold out little hope for that but he has to have some time to show his cards.
At the end of WWII President Truman was overrode and ignored by the Dulles brothers...and for now, nothing has changed. Trump will only become truly favorable for me when he cancels the Patriot act that Bush started and Obama extended. We'll see but I am not holding my breath. These people burning the country down instead of getting behind an elected American president are likely going end my hopes.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 08:17 PM |
|
|
Markkur, what I have never understood is why the GOVERNMENT isn't paid a fortune. I mean, whereever you look, top class costs top money, and top performance is worth top money - but governing a country is supposed to come cheap? What is the best insurance against corruption? Paying good money is.
Also, good payment is a come-on for top talent.
Same is true for cops, by the way. They don't get paid enough money.
Anyway Here is the list of votes that all presidential candidates got. The two main candidates got roughly 95% of all votes, the rest got 5%, Johnson getting votes everywhere.
So 5% of the US voters are wasting their vote, voting a candidate they know has no chance.
The other 95% divides into those that WANT that candidate (over anyone else) and those who would ACTUALLY rather vote one of the others (if they would know everyone), but are either too lazy to inform themselves or don't want to "waste" their vote.
THAT last group is ACTUALLY your problem, because they basically "rig" the election by disregarding alternatives.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:20 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
baseless, unsubstantiated and meaningless news from the very biased "left".
FTFY 
____________
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:26 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
What is the best insurance against corruption? Paying good money is.
LMFAO! you're crazy like a fox, jj. crazier even than me. i like that.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:41 PM |
|
Edited by Minion at 21:43, 01 Feb 2017.
|
JollyJoker said:
whereever you look, top class costs top money, and top performance is worth top money - but governing a country is supposed to come cheap? What is the best insurance against corruption? Paying good money is.
Also, good payment is a come-on for top talent.
Yeah pretty much. For reasons like this you can hire people that are THE SMARTEST on the planet on their field like Ernest Moniz, one of the top Physics professors in the whole world to work as a Secretary of Energy. He worked in the Barack Obama administration. Why wouldn't you want the best?
Oh I know why, if you value stupidity. America is having Rick Perry as next Secretary of Energy... :/ The man doesn't even know what his job is. He failed chemistry in school. Oh well, he does know how to dance though.
I do disagree about it being anyhow an insurance against corruption though, it has it's tentacles everywhere. You can't pay a person so much money that were he prone for greed he wouldn't want MORE...
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:41 PM |
|
|
Agree, top performance is worth big money. but now please explain me how the politics are doing a top performance, then if you convince me, I may agree on retribution. Until there, I believe they should pay us for supporting their piffle.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 10:04 PM |
|
|
If you look for a piano player doing a Beethoven concert, would you offer them a 100 Euros for the job and expect a good gig? Him doing Beethoven justice?
Nope. You'd want them at least to demonstrate their ability - there might be a talent there looking for a chance.
Unfortunately, in politics there is no such thing as a demonstration.
Now put yourself into the shoes of a talent - say, economy. Where would you want to go, free enterprise or politics?
Now, in free enterprise you have a bonus system. Top managers get a share of the spoils - a success bonus. No reason whatsoever this whouldn't be the case in politics as well.
I will give you a real life example for the way we shoot ourselves in the foot.
The government spends a lot of money for public building enterprises. There is a lot corruption involved with these things, and to avoid that (as best as possible), the process of giving public building jobs gets more or less automatted. Procedure is to follow, everything open - but as a result, basically all public building enterprises not only are more expensive than they should be, they also GET a lot more expensive along the line, since these things aren't realitically calculated. Actually, things get MORE expensive than less.
The problem here is , that the people who are responsible for the budget aren't PROFITING from doing a good job. That is, while operating within the boundaries of capitalism they are excluded from the very principle of it.
In other words, government isn't run like a corp. It's run like a communist cooperative.
That cannot work, obviously.
Government is like a bank; the people are handing out their tax money and expect that money to be put to good use for the benefit of the whole of society. If the servants of the state are supposed to deliver they have to have some kind of gratification out of it - that's how the system works.
It doesn't HAVE to be money, it COULD be privileges - or something completely different no one thinks about right now. But the job should be attractive, provided you do it well.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 10:20 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 22:22, 01 Feb 2017.
|
Ok, you guys are way off now, when Markkur talks about the relationship between finance and the elections, he's not talking about government officials' salaries. It is the election process remember, you are not in office yet! What you officialy pay to people working for the government is completely another matter. What he's talking about, and almost every American I've seen who has a brain complains about this, is that the candidates (not just for presidency but for senate just as well) who are not supported by big finance practically have no chance whatsoever, because the election process has evolved into a circus and the one with the stronger propaganda machine and proper ties to certain lobbies wins. Now, politics have always been a lot about "you are who you know," that's global, but the unrestricted way US laws allow finance to support any political movement kind of evolved into a very decadant version of this, they plainly buy politics, oil companies trigger invasions, gun industry determines laws on guns, the medicine industry determine health programmes etc... This is not about taking bribes because you are poor, this is about who gets you on which chair to begin with. I was listening to a professor of political science speaking on the TV once and I remember him explaining that the system has stuck on this so hard that once a politician gets elected for congress (or senate, cant remember which), he had to spend the next 4 years mostly to keep these lobbies financing him once again or he's out for the second term. So, the system kind of pushes you into being a rodeo rider, you spend your energy on standing on the horse rather than riding it somewhere.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 10:25 PM |
|
|
|
Getting money out of politics has been the liberals agenda for a long time now, Bernie Sanders was exactly for that.
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 10:41 PM |
|
|
And look where that got him. Honestly, they say they are interested in getting rid of money in politics but they aren't and never will be.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 10:50 PM |
|
|
The selection process takes place in the PARTIES.
If you ever played a game like Junta you know ho this works. If you want to rise in the perty ranks you have to get SUPPORT. Essentially that means, AT LEAST you have to look like you are no THREAT (for no one), at best you have to look like supporting you will GAIN (which may include being indepted for support).
So basically, the problem is, getting nominated within the ranks of a party needs a different skill-set than leading a nation.
Mikhail Gorbachev showed it IS possible to get to the top and STILL have the courage to destroy the system that put you there - but the second time around is WAY more difficult.
So. Prohibit political parties.
That makes no sense, though, because EVERY "community" of people with ANY kind of basic understanding will support a candiate from it*s ranks.
So no parties - but the track & field club you are in will STILL support you in your bid to become a delegate - provided your mates like you.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 11:04 PM |
|
|
Gryphs said:
And look where that got him. Honestly, they say they are interested in getting rid of money in politics but they aren't and never will be.
Honestly, there is no "they" like a subclass of humans called politicians. There are humans, some give in to corruptions but all do not.
|
| |
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
