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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 07, 2017 10:34 PM |
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I already explained this, but is strange that when it comes to concepts opposite to your political agenda, you can't grasp very basic things: it makes NO SENSE to set own immigration rules in France if there are no borders with Germany and while Germany lets millions of migrants in.
It has nothing to do with colonial story or whatever of that kind. Europe is a strainer and until every country has same immigration quotas, it can't work.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted February 07, 2017 11:34 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 23:34, 07 Feb 2017.
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JollyJoker said:
nature "bred" us, so-to-speak, but left us on our own to fight for our survival.
lol
*punches the sky to make water fall
*punches a tree to make fruit fall ripe
we ARE nature.
artu said:
It's kind of funny how JJ is much more passionate about his reaction compared to most of the Americans here.
thats the point. trump (vs hillary) is the great distraction. international corporatocracy / media / banking just bought the worlds eye
peekaboo
____________
yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 12:24 AM |
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Salamandre said:
He antagonized the leftists from Europe, which are about 10% and considered endangered species
Here folks we have a perfect perfect example of "alternative facts".
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 03:55 AM |
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yogi said:
international corporatocracy / media / banking just bought the worlds eye
I don't think everything works perfectly according to a scheme tailored by the corporatocracy. Trump was a wild card and they didn't expect him to win. As ironic as it is, his victory is the result of a social reaction rather than an implementation. And that reaction indeed has a lot to do with leftist/liberal circles getting lost in a disconnected political correctness. A solid left that people can relate to is a real necessity now more than ever, all around the world.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 08:26 AM |
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@ Salamandre
You explained nothing. Because your society is what it is. You have the integration problems with North and West Africans NOW - they are there already, and they aren't there because of an open French border to Germany, they are there because they all come from ex French colonies. Shutting your borders will gain nothing, and that isn't even considering the fact that you cannot shut borders effectively.
And IMMIGRATION isn't the problem either, because IMMIGRATION is a controlled thing, and something that especially France always needed, because France hasn't had population growth even 150 years ago. They needed to import workers. Taking on REFUGEES is something else completely, and how many refugees there are isn't something that can be controlled. It depends on the circumstances of life elsewhere, and for some time now there are two problems, and that's (civil wars) and the draught in Africa which is due to climate change.
What Trump and his government just does is flipping the finger to the rest of the world in both regards.
@ All
And then there is this ridiculous notion that Trump was a "wild card" for the "corporatocracy". It was ridiculous to assume that in the first place, considering that Trump has been part of that corporatocracy and wouldn't have made it to candidate otherwise, but what is even more ridiculous is to assume that "corporatocracy" would be something like a unified front and work hand in hand.
No, Trump's actions and personnell have been made clear what corner of the corporatocracy he comes from.
a) Undoing of Dodd-Frank regulations for banks. This is clearly a gift for the US banks and finance elite
b)Rex Tillerson, climate science deniers, abolishment of the EPA, giving green for 2 quite controversial pipelines: which means, it's Coal and Oil.
Is THAT supposed to be the future?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 12:38 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 12:40, 08 Feb 2017.
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JollyJoker said:
Is THAT supposed to be the future?
well, jj, wtf do you want us to do about it, as americans? we had either that snowter, or hillary. neither of them were EVER any goddamn good, in case you haven't noticed. even if we WERE to get rid of him, ANOTHER snow-faced piece of snow would take his place. followed by ANOTHER. and ANOTHER. and ANOTHER.
it's politics and corporations, man. not to mention, lobbyists. even if we were to wipe them all out by whatever means, it'd create a vaccuum that would be filled by even more snowheads vying for power and control.
one problem, is the SYSTEM. and the other, is people's goddamn EGO'S and GREED. without a system that is able to CONTROL ego's and greed, the "shining light" that is supposed to be the u.s., will forever exist as just another bullsnow nation with it's rotten politics, system, and flawed people.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 12:40 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:45, 08 Feb 2017.
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JJ said:
And then there is this ridiculous notion that Trump was a "wild card" for the "corporatocracy".
Wild Card: A person who is generally unpredictable and has no defined role in a group of friends, and their often reckless and wacky behavior can either benefit or hurt the group depending on the situation.
He was exactly the above for anybody, including the corporate world and almost nobody expected him to win in the beginning. There was a lot of theory crafting about how he wasn't in it to really win, since that seemed like a very long shot. Even through the end, most people still didn't give him much of a chance because of his reckless speeches.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 01:03 PM |
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That's only the impression he successfully conveyed (for those who fell for it). In other words, he sold people his glaring dilettantism as wild-card-unpredactability, while he was quite obviously in league with the mentioned part of the corporatocracy, because he clearly said what he was going to do in case he was elected.
And, fred, Hillary would have been a lot better - there were lots of fake news about her, the defamation campaign against her.
The sole advantage of Trump is that he's such an unlikable mix of egomanical dilettantism paired with a government out of a mental institute that it will force people to get their asses up and become active. The question is, how much damage he'll be able to do.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 01:06 PM |
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Really, because I don't recall you giving him any chance a year ago either.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 01:14 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 01:57 PM |
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I'm obviously not talking about supporting him but being able to estimate his chances of winning. Even Henry Kissinger said he couldn't see it coming.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 02:16 PM |
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I'be obviously been underestimating a couple of things here and overestimating a couple of things there - but I don't see what that's got to do with it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 02:41 PM |
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What I meant was, you now seem to talk as if it was overwhelmingly transparent how he played things out* but you didn't seem to think he had much of a chance either before the results.
*I partly disagree with this, I think it was one of those points in history when too many variables overlapped rather than a swiftly executed masterplan by Trump or corporations etc.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 03:10 PM |
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That people TOOK him for a wild card doesn't mean he WAS or IS one, which is what I said: That he successfully conveyed this impression to a big enough public on one hand, while doing everything possible on the other to smear his opponent.
You could just say, that they put a monkey up for vote, and enough people thought the system is so bankrupt we can just as well vote for the monkey. Hilarious.
The downside is, that now that the laughter has subsided you have a monkey pulling the strings.
Now that I'm First Lady - let's sue the hell out of those tabloids doing me wrong 20 years ago
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 04:14 PM |
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JJ, do you take take him for a monkey or a swift con man who played the monkey? You sound like both and that doesnt make much sense to me.
He is really a wild card on the other hand, being a wild card doesnt mean you have to be clueless about political dirt games, his narcissism and reckless ignorance is enough to qualify him as one.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 04:28 PM |
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Look, artu, USUALLY people look for QUALIFICATIONS when they have to make a decision, and Donald Trump has and had no qualifications whatsoever for the job and should haven't been voted by anyone seriously interested in electing a QUALIFIED government.
What I meant was this: Quote:
Tião, a bad-tempered chimpanzee, was put forward by the fictional Brazilian Banana Party (Partido Bananista Brasileiro, actually the satirical group Casseta & Planeta) as a candidate for the Rio de Janeiro mayoralty in 1988. The campaign's slogan was "Vote monkey – get monkey" (because people were tired of voting for one platform and then seeing the elected officials implementing another one). There is no official counting (because all votes were recorded as "null"), but it's estimated that Tião received over 400,000 votes, coming third.
However, as it is, there are a lot more examples: Look here.
So what I meant is, when he won the election, he got the vote of the monkey voters.
And he is NOT a wild card because "being perceived as unpredictable" isn't the same as being a Wild Card. His actions and his government isn't "wild Card". He told everyone what he would do, and now he tries to do it (and has actually started already).
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 04:42 PM |
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Well, the thing that makes him unpredictable is not that he doesn't do what he decides to do but whatever he may decide or say the next day. Besides, considering how he turned around on so many of his previous statements or directly lied about many little details, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he twists again, he's a pragmatic after all.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 04:50 PM |
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He's not unpredictable, but UNDISCIPLINED as in out of self-control. He may holler every moment, make an awkward joke in the wrong moment, twitter some crap or flip someone the finger, but that doesn't make him unpredictable - he's still the same egomaniac whose interest is Him, Hisself and He. Plus, he has a GOVERNMENT, that is, persons are appointed into office.
He is as much a Wild Card as Saddam Hussein was one.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 08, 2017 05:24 PM |
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You can predict he wont be changing into a whole new person, yes, but with your choice of word, there is no way to predict the ramifications and effects of his undisciplined actions and how Americans will be dealing with it on a judicial, political and social level, not to mention how it will stir up international relationships. That is what reckless means and that is why recklessness and unpredictability goes hand in hand in the definition of wild card.
Saddam was a dictator, if he didn't like someone standing in his way, he simply annihilated them, he didn't had to bother acting according to a constitutional standard and he was not the president of a super-power.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 06:23 PM |
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You are wrong on two counts, and they are both connected. Your definition of Wild Card says :"and their often reckless and wacky behavior can either benefit or hurt the group depending on the situation."
With Trump, it's clear it can't benefit the group - that is, of course, depending on how you define "group". However, there is no way that, say, the group of "women" will "benefit", if that group involves more than his relatives. Or the group of "muslims". Or the group of "native Americans". Or the group of environmentalists. Which is what I meant with unpredictable in a Saddam Hussein way. It might get not so good, it might get bad, or it might get really bad, but he won't suddenly start a campaign for more civil rights, higher taxes for billionaires or renewable energy.
And frankly, I'm in no mood to debate whether you can call this disgrace a Wild Card or not; my handle here is the epitome of a Wild Card, and calling him one is rubbing me the totally wrong way.
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