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| Thread: Might & Magic announcement at Gamescom'14? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 10, 2014 03:49 PM |
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Elvin said:
@somi
I do. But I can only speak of my personal views, until given permission to share something more substantial.
lol, so then, it looks like Jolly Joker knew damn well Heroes 7 was coming, after all
last time I ever listen to him lol
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 03:58 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 15:59, 10 Aug 2014.
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Dexter said:
Stevie said:
I think further debating on 2D/3D is meaningless. There won't ever be anything less than 3D once it's implemented in a iteration of the game.
Oh, and thanks Elvis for confirming me Heroes 7. Pray to God Ubisoft won't see this and sue your ass.  Don't worry, I took extra precaution measures so that won't ever happen. I hope..
ELVIS confirmed it's Heroes VII? Does that mean that the King is working on the soundtrack for the game? O_O
Yep, (fanboy) King Elvis sure did. But I doubt he's working on the soundtracks. We all know Romero is in charge of that 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 10, 2014 04:10 PM |
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Stevie said:
Yep, (fanboy) King Elvis sure did. But I doubt he's working on the soundtracks. We all know Romero is in charge of that
Why would Romero deny the King of Rock 'n Roll a part in making the soundtrack? You don't get to work with such a legend often.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:19, 10 Aug 2014.
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Well he did that once before! When he got offered by King (Rob) to work on the Heroes 1 soundtracks, he had to throw all of them away and start over again because the songs were too rock-ish for the game and they needed something more fantasy-like.
So many Kings it gets confusing
verriker said:
lol, so then, it looks like Jolly Joker knew damn well Heroes 7 was coming, after all
last time I ever listen to him lol
What, he lied he didn't know? Rofl!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 10, 2014 04:41 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 16:42, 10 Aug 2014.
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Stevie said:
ELVIS confirmed it's Heroes VII? Does that mean that the King is working on the soundtrack for the game? O_O
Now that would be something  I would settle for the other King though.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 10, 2014 04:44 PM |
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Elvin said:
Stevie said:
ELVIS confirmed it's Heroes VII? Does that mean that the King is working on the soundtrack for the game? O_O
Now that would be something I would settle for the other King though.
Why settle when you can have both?
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 10, 2014 06:56 PM |
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Elvin said:
I think part of what made a 2D heroes appealing is that everything looks.. symbolic. A few pictures might illustrate my meaning.
You can tell that none of the locations or pick ups are of a realistic size. This allows the adventure map to look more like an actual map with iconic points of interest. A tree might have the same size as a creature, resource or an obelisk but their iconic representation registers just fine on your mind. You know what they represent and how to best plan your routes to them. In H5 the ability to turn or zoom the camera made the map more life-like, as if you were there but in the process made it harder to navigate, at least for a number of people. Trees, garrisons, mountains all became larger so as to be more realistically proportioned compared to the hero which is beautiful in its own way but at the same time stretches up the map. You cannot have the same amount of items/locations in the same amount of space as you could in the past.
http://www.gaymerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Haven-setting-with-greentcm1913237.jpg
This is no longer a map, this is an actual landscape. But is that really needed in a strategy game? Or is the iconic size of the old games but a trip down the nostalgia lane? By all means I like the 3D heroes but would rather they toned down the size of some objects. I miss the old iconic representation of the adventure map.
I completely agree on this, I think I've already mentioned in the past. I wish Ubisoft would stop with this real-size obsession and make a more 'iconic' adventure map.
It also supports my argue I had with War-Overlord yesterday about Ubi choosing 3D over 2D. When you look at Heroes VI screenshots, you see beautiful landscapes....and huuuge deserts of interactive objects. And interacting with the Adv. Map is the essence of HoM&M (together with combats, which are started from the Adv. Map  )
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 10, 2014 08:27 PM |
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I get your point, Elvin, and I agree with you to a certain extant, namely that I do think the adventure maps of H6 were generally too empty. I don't necessarily agree that 3D means that has to be the case, I think there were H5 maps which had a suitable amount of contents on them, even if they were more empty than some H3 maps, just as well as some H3 maps were very empty - that comes down to a combination of the mapmakers skill and the amount of available items to place on the map. But I think what developers sometimes overlook is the importance of all those numerous minor objects and map spots that gives just that extra spice to the game even if their individual significance is minor.
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 10, 2014 08:35 PM |
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This is not exactly a 3D issue, more like a side-effect. When you have the tools to make the world realistic, it seems only reasonable to give more realistic proportions. I think heroes would look and work better if they kept 3D but went back to iconic representations.
The only downside of 3D that I can think of is the artifacts. Creating a 3D model for every single artifact can be a pain and H6 decided to go for artifact archetype models instead: Arms, legs, necklace etc. The problem with that is that an artifact on the adventure map is not immediately recognizable and you have to place the cursor over it to see which one it is. I find that rather annoying.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 10, 2014 08:55 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 21:02, 10 Aug 2014.
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Because my post about 2D/3D started a debate of sorts here's what I have to say in this matter:
1. I would personally like to see a 2D Heroes. I believe a strategic game like Heroes is compatible with 2D graphics. This kind of graphics are more suited for tactical games which require clarity over 3D eye-candy.
2. No one said it couldn't be a hybrid. There are many tricks to enhance a 2D game with 3D graphics.
3. Nowadays we are witnessing a nostalgia/retro fad, many people look forward for stylized retro-like games.
4. There are many successful games made in 2D. I'm playing Dragons Crown right now which is a tribute for 90s beat'em up side-scrollers and it has really beautiful 2D-only graphics. There is Banner Saga, Japan is having a Wizardy-styled games boom right now (Etrian Odyssey ,Demon Gaze and many more). Bah, why look so far when Clash of Heroes was probably the most successful game of the franchise when it comes to Ubisoft-Era (though I wonder if DoC isn't more successful)
Ubisoft has hired three studios already and not one of them managed to deal with a 3D engine. We all now what bug-fests they were, and even if the end results were quite stable games, bad impression will stay forever. So why not try a 2D engine which is less prone for bugs (graphic ones at least  ).
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 08:57 PM |
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Edited by Dexter at 21:00, 10 Aug 2014.
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Personally I find the switch to 3D a good choice, though I'll have to agree with Elvin that the potential of rendering the world in 3D makes it easier for the devs to lose focus. That was precisely the problem with Heroes VI - the landscapes looked pretty amazing and they would be perfectly suited for an RPG, but the density of interactive objects was not high enough for a good strategy game. But of course, adding additional objects wouldn't blend in well because everything was simply too big. As far as I'm concerned someone wanted to have both and RPG and a TBS, which never works well. I found the same problem in Disciples III, where every inch of the maps looked beautiful, but just didn't have much to offer apart from the eye-candy.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 10, 2014 09:06 PM |
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Elvin said:
The only downside of 3D that I can think of is the artifacts.
I would say 3D also makes mapmaker life more difficult. Creating a good map will take more time because you have to deal with landscapes, elevations and such (whereas in 2D you just put objects as your wish, be a set of mountains, a lake or some bushes).
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 10, 2014 09:09 PM |
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Dexter said:
Personally I find the switch to 3D a good choice, though I'll have to agree with Elvin that the potential of rendering the world in 3D makes it easier for the devs to lose focus. That was precisely the problem with Heroes VI - the landscapes looked pretty amazing and they would be perfectly suited for an RPG, but the density of interactive objects was not high enough for a good strategy game.
I think you nailed it. Too much eye-candy, not enough substance.
My opinion is that they can always switch back to 2D and see what happens (now that they've made two 3D games already). There is always room for experiments, especially with a company as rich as Ubisoft
I think a 2D game would be well received by the Community. And I think it's best to "nurture" this Community as new guys are hard to attract. And who knows, a retro style game might actually attract more people because of it's uniqueness. IMO Heroes fanbase is quite a hermetic but loyal group, so it's best to satisfy us
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 10, 2014 09:24 PM |
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blob2 said:
IMO Heroes fanbase is quite a hermetic but loyal group, so it's best to satisfy us
We would say that.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted August 10, 2014 09:30 PM |
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The adventure map is the aspect of the game that benefits most from 2D. That's not to say 3D can never work, but it may complicate things such as map design as Storm-Giant mentioned (the Heroes 6 map editor comes to mind). What about a primarily 2D map with 3D objects inserted as sprites, call it 2.5D if you wish. Do you think that could work? Battles and town screens could still be in 3D.
Heroes fans tend to be rather conservative when it comes to game design.
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 10:00 PM |
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Kronos1000 said:
The adventure map is the aspect of the game that benefits most from 2D. That's not to say 3D can never work, but it may complicate things such as map design as Storm-Giant mentioned (the Heroes 6 map editor comes to mind). What about a primarily 2D map with 3D objects inserted as sprites, call it 2.5D if you wish. Do you think that could work? Battles and town screens could still be in 3D.
Heroes fans tend to be rather conservative when it comes to game design.
"Rather" conservative? If it weren't for the Devs forcing innovation into the series we'd have a reedition of Heroes III every year! Even the number wouldn't change!
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 10:03 PM |
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2D, 3D, who cares? It's riddled with bugs anyways.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 10, 2014 10:14 PM |
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Dexter said:
"Rather" conservative? If it weren't for the Devs forcing innovation into the series we'd have a reedition of Heroes III every year! Even the number wouldn't change!
The question is: "Wouldn't we want that?"
I've got a feeling that a 2D or 2,5D with would set the franchise on the right track. I don't dislike the 3D idea, but the more I think about it the more I think that this game should've stayed a 2D strategic game with high artistic values. Ubisoft showed as that they can hire quite the talented artists for this games. Besides, those 2D town screens in Heroes 6 made me really think about where this franchise should go...
That said, I don't think we will see a 2D game. I think we'll see another 3D game, and who knows, maybe on Heroes 6 engine (though Limbic did say it's a mess of a code beyond repair).
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted August 10, 2014 10:16 PM |
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Dexter said:
"Rather" conservative? If it weren't for the Devs forcing innovation into the series we'd have a reedition of Heroes III every year! Even the number wouldn't change!
Well I meant it as an understatement...
Looking at myself though, I love Heroes 4 and 5. Heroes 6 not so much. For me it's not innovation itself, it is more a matter of how well it's done.
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 10, 2014 10:37 PM |
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Dexter said:
"Rather" conservative? If it weren't for the Devs forcing innovation into the series we'd have a reedition of Heroes III every year! Even the number wouldn't change!
And yet we haven't got a H3 reedition yet!
Though in the end, badly designed/implemented innovations can be 'forgiven' if the game is solid and fun to play.
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