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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 15, 2015 12:03 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Wellplay said:
And it won't get any better with this idiotic train of thoughts.
I don't really see what your agenda is here. First of all, please don't pull the H3-card once again, most players here don't really want another H3, so that statement is getting a bit old by now. Secondly, I actually think much of what is being said here is warranted, fan community was quite clear about what they disliked about H6, and when they then repeat many of the same mistakes in H7, someone needs to be told that this can only be seen as disregard for our interests (whether the decision was made by Ubi-team or Limbic-team remains unanswered for me). And yes, there are actually examples of fan criticism resulting in something constructive, I think many of the changes done to H5 from Vanilla to TotE was based on fan feedback.
Than just wait and see instead of crossing them out bloody hell. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 15, 2015 12:38 AM |
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We played the beta last week and game is out in two, please keep realistic, do you think it will magically turn awesome by then?
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6. Times cannot be darker, although with Ubi and the Erwin Team we've repeatedly seen they always can. I wish if H8 comes to life it will be done by people who understand the franchise better, and give it the reboot it deserves.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 01:00 AM |
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Galaad said:
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6.
To be honest, if H7 is kind of like H6 but with a stable code and multiplayer where you can play a game without getting kicked out, I'd buy it.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 15, 2015 01:06 AM |
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Wellplay said:
Than go ahead and wait for your 2nd coming of H3 with 10 other developers. 
Meanwhile I shall enjoy H7 and have fun with it while knowing it gona get even better with expansions.
I wrote "nothing would be better", how did you get that to mean I am waiting for something?
And H3 seems like an arbitrary inclusion on your part, I didn't bring it up.
But good on you I guess.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 04:15 AM |
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I dont even know what is this debate about anymore
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 15, 2015 04:41 AM |
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@Wellplay
Give it up man, I did long ago. These people will stay the same for as long as each of their demands are met, regardless if they are coherent or not.
The game is out in 2 weeks, the cards have been dealt. Now we will see who got the better hand.
@alcibiades
I have deep respect towards you man, but your attitude with the skill system is somewhat frustrating. Not because you have a different opinion than me, but how you tend to be oblivious how the systems in each game where different. This one is not a H6 clone, not in a bit. I don't want to elaborate for the solo reason of "I don't care enough of these people anymore". But please you just can't compare things that have nothing in common.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 15, 2015 07:42 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
(...) This one is not a H6 clone, not in a bit. I don't want to elaborate for the solo reason of "I don't care enough of these people anymore". But please you just can't compare things that have nothing in common.
Well that is your opinion, I beg to disagree. Both systems have a fixed set of skills available to you based on your hero class, with a pre-determined max level you can get to based on your hero class, and making you pick your skill order yourself. That, for me, is the core shared by these two systems, and that, for me, is a major issue.
Obviously there are vast differences also - no longer spells tied into skill system, no longer level-restrictions on which point you can learn what skill, and certainly that is a step in the right direction. But on the fundamental level outlined above, these systems go against what I like in the series.
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What will happen now?
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 09:25 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 09:32, 15 Sep 2015.
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The differencies are way more than the one similarity they share. You want to see only that? Well too bad for you ,you 're going to miss out on some fun when playing the game.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted September 15, 2015 09:34 AM |
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Galaad said:
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6. Times cannot be darker, although with Ubi and the Erwin Team we've repeatedly seen they always can.
^^ Total untrue trolling cr@p.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 15, 2015 09:36 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 09:36, 15 Sep 2015.
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dark-whisperer said:
Galaad said:
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6. Times cannot be darker, although with Ubi and the Erwin Team we've repeatedly seen they always can.
Total cr@p.
A well formulated, thought-provoking retort.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 09:49 AM |
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Which is the crucial question: will the game be FUN?
For me the answer is - based on a little something more than the beta - not in the long run, because there are too many irritating things, that is, things I want to do and cannot, things I have to do and don't want to, things too repetitive, incompetent AI (biggest turn-off in HoMM IV, actually, so that's not just Ubi terrain), things that are illogical or sloppily patched together, things that make no sense. A mace of an UI where a foil would have been nice.
Also, I've been given up liking campaigns since the invention of level caps for transferred heroes. That they always tell you what you have to do now, makes things infinitely worse. ("Find X". "Go to Y". "Ask Z for X". Jesus Christ!)
In short, I'm not feeling the urge to play the hell out of the game, which is the yardstick of whether it's really good, and since there are games like that, well...
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 15, 2015 09:49 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 09:53, 15 Sep 2015.
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Why do you hate H7 so much? Because of the skills?
If it is only the skills then play full random in multiplayer and it all will be very varied each game.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted September 15, 2015 10:25 AM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 10:29 AM |
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natalka said:
Why do you hate H7 so much? Because of the skills?
If it is only the skills then play full random in multiplayer and it all will be very varied each game.
If that's to me, I don't hate it. I just don't find it good enough to play it extensively.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 10:49 AM |
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Kayna said:
Galaad said:
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6.
To be honest, if H7 is kind of like H6 but with a stable code and multiplayer where you can play a game without getting kicked out, I'd buy it.
I sort of think alike. But Blackhole was not able to produce a stable code base, which is not only UBI's falt btw., It’s also lack of expertise and quality work in that particular company. I don’t see so far, that Limbics codebase is unstable or unmanageable. Yes, the development team does matter, but so far nothing wrong happened (or I missed something?). So I wouldn’t compare H7 to H6, seems quite different situation.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 15, 2015 10:51 AM |
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natalka said:
Why do you hate H7 so much? Because of the skills?
If it is only the skills then play full random in multiplayer and it all will be very varied each game.
It is not just random skills. It is also some things that just restrict gameplay. Aside the number of magic schools, you still have that spell system in which you need more ranks in spell schools to get higher level spells, aka Arcane Knowledge. Or that town level, which became also restrictive. And add the general visual look resembling it to H6, I am uncertain if the game will sell well.
We had everything in our power to at least alert the devs in many ways which points of the game suck and should be improved. The aspect of the game is to create re-playability, which works well with random skill system. But since we have the system as it is, it just lowers down that replayability, though I guess that is apparent when they focus more on campaign story rather than single scenarios.
To sum up, hopefully in Heroes 8 (if we will ever get it), the dev team has to get a crystal-clear message that their money should be spent more wisely, things that people want to be better, improved and expanded, meaning better gameplay over the visuals. For graphics are secondary, the gameplay is what makes Heroes games a Heroes franchise. There are also secondary faults, but such things come in later on.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 15, 2015 11:04 AM |
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No, JJ, I don`t sense hatred in your words. Maybe it is not good enough comparing it to h3 but I like it more than h5 which I played extensively so I will move on.
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 11:35 AM |
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Edited by keldaur at 11:35, 15 Sep 2015.
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Avirosb said:
dark-whisperer said:
Galaad said:
Face it, H7 is no more than a second try of H6. Times cannot be darker, although with Ubi and the Erwin Team we've repeatedly seen they always can.
Total cr@p.
A well formulated, thought-provoking retort.
It's on the same level as the first polarizing comment.
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 11:44 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Which is the crucial question: will the game be FUN?
For me the answer is - based on a little something more than the beta - not in the long run, because there are too many irritating things, that is, things I want to do and cannot, things I have to do and don't want to, things too repetitive, incompetent AI (biggest turn-off in HoMM IV, actually, so that's not just Ubi terrain), things that are illogical or sloppily patched together, things that make no sense. A mace of an UI where a foil would have been nice.
Also, I've been given up liking campaigns since the invention of level caps for transferred heroes. That they always tell you what you have to do now, makes things infinitely worse. ("Find X". "Go to Y". "Ask Z for X". Jesus Christ!)
In short, I'm not feeling the urge to play the hell out of the game, which is the yardstick of whether it's really good, and since there are games like that, well...
Completely agree. The stream they did where they said "AI is faster" on the 3 player map. Well, it wasn't true, the AI was exactly the same. Not being able to play different maps due to AI turns length will go in detriment of the majority of the people who will play this game, who don't really play multiplayer, which is one of the reasons why i see most of the criticism in this forum completely biased towards the little things, even when constructive.
Not to speak about the combat AI which is pretty bad (randomly flanks, doesn't get head to head with ranged stacks even if their life depends on it), and allow us to safely creep no matter the difficulty settings.
Bugs and optimization will play a way more important role than whatever small change you do to skill, abilities or town screens.
That's not to say the game has no future. It has, but it's still on a development phase, an i don't pay for that. The RMG, mapmaking tools, are there.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 15, 2015 12:00 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Both systems have a fixed set of skills available to you based on your hero class, with a pre-determined max level you can get to based on your hero class, and making you pick your skill order yourself. That, for me, is the core shared by these two systems, and that, for me, is a major issue.
This. Add seven schools of magic, absurd town construction, ridiculous implementation of flanking, straight out wtf weeks like no retaliation or no shooting (in WoG was not done like that, on top of being optional), useless heroes with uninspiring specializations, poor creatures abilities (even h6 made that better), skills like Logistics are gone from the game (+3 mvt point on land at Master level, woohoo), Governor seems like a key feature of the game and I fail to understand why, townscreens which look like drawings of a 12 yo, horrible UI and about the ugliest town construction screens I've ever seen, no proper creature recruitement screen, dull colors on the AM, Ashan being more bullshan than ever, the list can go on and on but I guess we're only a small unpleasable crowd who's wishes for a better game than III or V is just too much to ask, maybe we should satisfy ourselves with a mediocre product and stop trying to provide criticism and feedback since doing so labels us as blind haters.
In the end, what do we know, when developers officially wants our input, obviously their knowledge of the game is not questionable.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
